AgileGSD
Posted : 1/20/2009 10:18:20 AM
dstull
Jennie,
I'm going to play devil's advocate here. Shouldn't we do away with the hairless Chinese Crested? They can get sunburned, or freeze, and isn't breeding for hairlessness just promoting a serious health issue. And my god, the dentition issues!
With Hairless Cresteds, the true Hairless are historically correct. The "hairy Hairless" were created by show breeders. I admit, in the ring the hair Hairless are attractive little dogs with their excessive furnishing but they are not correct. Maybe it is just me but a breed that is supposed to be hairless shouln't have to be shaved and Naired to be taken in the ring.
dstull
Liesje, don't you think if a lot of the correct GSD were to start being exhibited at the AKC shows, that some may start to win, and the breed might begin to swing back to moderation? My own breed the BC is an example. Even though the standard is fairly well written and allows a huge variety of ""correct", when was the last time someone had a winning *** eared smooth? When was the last time one was entered? A judge can't put up something that's not in the ring.
Not Liesje but am somone who has owned both correct GSDs and Amline GSDs. I don't think you are seeing the entire problem here or you may realize that it is not that easy to just change it. People do occasionally try to compete with their German line GSDs in AKC. A handful over the years have even managed to finish German line GSDs but more often than not, owners give up after having spent a lot of money and getting no where. You have to take into account Judges Eduaction, which is where judges learn what they are looking for in a breed, what is correct and what is most important. Who does Judges Ed? Show breeders do :)
I know at one Judges Ed I was at, future Collie breeders were told that the head should be 70-75% of what they base their placements and points on and that if they have a choice between a dog with an outstanding head and a dog with outstanding structure, the dog with the better head should win. Future GSD judges are told that for a GSD side movement is the very most important thing in the breed. They are told that the long leg rear leg bones and excessive rear angulation are how GSDs are supposed to look. So the problem really starts with the breeder and moves to Judges Ed. It is made worse by the future and new judges seeing ads and big winning GSDs that are all typical Amline GSDs.
The other issue in the competive breeds such as GSDs and Dobes is that they are very much a handler breed. Very few are owner handled to their CH, even fewer are owner handled by "nobodys" and most unlikely would be an "nobody" owner handler finishing a German line GSD. So to even be looked at in the GSD ring, you pretty much have to hire a professional handler. That will be at least an extra $75 per show, more if your dog wins. Along with entry fees, you are looking at $100/day to even compete with a GSD. And even at that, the fact is when your dog is the only different looking dog in the ring, or one of just a handful of different looking dogs even your dog will be passed up more often than not.
Most judges don't want to rock the boat so to speak. A judge putting up a German line dog, especially repeatedly will find themselves with fewer and fewer assignments and fewer and fewer entries. Which means, once a judge is established as someone who puts up the wrong type people will stop entering dogs under that judfe. If people stop entering dogs, there are no points for the few who do show up which makes finishing a German line GSD even harder. To get a major in my area your dog needs to beat at least 11 other dogs (or 15 other bitches).
In breeds which are less common and less competive (fewer numbers, few to no professional handlers, no a competive Group breed), you will see a variety of different looks winning in the ring. The more competive the breed is, the more you see the same basic look winning over and over. Also the more competive a breed, the more money there is involved in showing and specialing them. Breeders, handlers and owners of Amline GSDs are not just going to go away with their dogs, as they have too much invested in the breed.
Your breed, as you should know quickly become one of those competive show breeds in AKC. When they were first recognized all sorts of people finished their BCs easily - BCs of all different types. But guess what I see at Judges Ed every time I go (BCs always seem to be the same day as us) - typical heavy coated, perfectly marked, tipped eared, round headed show BCs. I suspect that the reason you don't see smooths in the AKC ring is that all the show BCs are pretty much New Zealand/Australian lines and it doesn't seem as though those BCs carry the Smooth gene. Most every smooth I have seen has been a working bred dog, with woking type structure - very different from what wins in AKC.
And for GSDs (and I suspect BCs) the truth is that AKC conformation is just not that important to people with the correct, working dogs. Certainly not important enough to invest $100/day for two to four day weekends throughout the year. German line GSD people have their own conformation shows which are judged by GSD breeders (often judges from Europe), have written critiques and show ratings. Those shows are a more meaningful way for them to have their dogs evaluated than AKC shows where the breed is no longer correct even to their own standard and most judges have never even owned a GSD. With GSDs, the Amline GSDs really don't have an impact on what German line breeders are doing or their dogs. Some Amline people outcross to German lines but German line people don't breed to Amlines, as there is nothing that Amlines can offer the German dogs structure or temperament wise.
I always tell people the AKC GSD scene is like the story of The Emperor's New Clothes - people outside of the breed, even other dog people often comment that the dogs look "crippled", "walk on their hocks", or that their "movement looks painful" and it is easy to see that they are not really what GSDs are meant to look like. But within the breed those dogs are considered "correct", "beautiful" and are Champions. Newbies to the AKC GSD Scene often start off disliking the extreme looking dogs and often start with a more moderate dog to show. But if they stay involved and want to be competive, they will sooner or later own a typical Amline GSD after seeing them win and being told by everyone how correct they are. And if they stay involved long enough, those people will breed typical Amline GSDs and educate others as to what is correct for the breed...