NC trooper case - all K9 units suspended!

Where are the dogs going to stay though? Don't the officers keep them at home?

Suspending the dogs doesn't make sense if they are just going to be at home with the off-duty cop.

This whole thing sickens me......it just adds to my hatred of the human race.

Great news! I'm glad they won't use Rioch's handler as a scapegoat and continue abusing other dogs.  

erica1989

Where are the dogs going to stay though? Don't the officers keep them at home?

Suspending the dogs doesn't make sense if they are just going to be at home with the off-duty cop.

This whole thing sickens me......it just adds to my hatred of the human race.

 It depends - some places have kennels for the police dogs and they are out with the handler during the work day and in the kennels while "off duty" and in some places they live with the handler.

today's update  

there are two pages  - apparently other dogs have been routinely abused.  I really just don't get it. 

 From the first article:

Clendenin did not know how long the dogs would remain out of service. He said they are mostly used to sniff out drugs at traffic stops, and the patrol would use other techniques to ferret out such activity. He said the 10 canine handlers will assume other duties while the review is underway.

Um, since when are drug sniffing dogs needed to:

They said the rough training techniques are necessary because the dogs need to learn to obey orders to protect the officers and the public. The dogs are considered lethal weapons.

I didn't realize that drug dogs were also "lethal weapons".  I thought the two disciplines were separate, but maybe not. 

Jones said he was tough with Ricoh because the dog was aggressive and often refused to release objects, particularly toys that were given as rewards. Jones said he has scars on his back and arms from Ricoh's bites. Jones said he kicked Ricoh to get him to release a toy.

Too valuable to retire

Ricoh was valuable to the patrol, having located cash and illegal drugs totaling $10 million during a six-year period, Jones said. That's why the patrol continued to use Ricoh, Jones said, instead of retiring him.

... 

The case has exposed a lack of state or national standards for training police dogs. The first review noted that not much has been put in writing because police departments fear that the public would be outraged at some of the tactics.

... 

"You can't kick, you can't strike, you can't slam a dog against a wall," Beatty said. "That is inhumane and unacceptable, and anybody who thinks you need to do that to maintain control doesn't need to be handling a dog."

Jones said he has scars on his back and arms from Ricoh's bites.  Um, maybe because you abuse the dog?  sheesh...

Well I just hope the state does move to put treatment and training standards in place for these dogs.  They are providing a great service to the public and deserve to be treated with as much respect as a human law enforcement officer does.

This is really a troubling situation. All the way around.

So the toy was a reward......why did he need to drop it?  Didn't he earn the reward?  Or are rewards in canine cop work, time sensitive?  And yeah, drug sniffing is a heck of a lot different career path.  We used to have a gal on the forum who handled a drug dog....took her to schools to check for drugs, guns and something else, and also did talks with the students.  From what I remember, this dog was very laid back and gentle and certainly not a lethal weapon.  Her job was to FIND stuff that shouldn't be there......not bring down a fleeing suspect.

My dogs are NOT lethal weapons.  Let's get that out first.  I don't want them to be, although, gosh, any dog surely could be.  But even so, I do want them to mind me yet I've never felt the need to resort to any of these kind of tactics.  Gosh, if we are playing fetch and someone decides to play keepaway, I just turn around and start walking.  The dog and the ball are very quickly at my feet.  If I started whaling on someone, they might drop the ball, but it wouldn't be in submission.....more likely in shock.

It almost sounds to me like these cops are either afraid of the dogs, or doing the macho guy thing.  This isn't training.  It's abuse, pure and simple.

I don't know these things....I've never trained a protection dog even, but isn't the bond between canine and handler supposed to be solid, based on trust and not fear?  Doesn't the human cop depend on the canine cop for his very LIFE?  Why on earth would you kick someone who might save your life later in the day?   Perhaps they do need to be a bit more hands on with the dogs than I would ever be, but, gosh, how on earth does any of THIS behavior build a bond of trust and devotion?  The whole situation just makes me want to puke.

glenmar

The whole situation just makes me want to puke.

I am posting it and the updates just to make it more public - although it sounds like it is already national news.  I did put a link in one of the threads about where to voice concerns - I have done so and a few others have to.  It sounds to me that all of these guys haven't a clue.  It is just the they aren't listening I 'make' them do it.  repulsive. They deserve to be bitten

glenmar

This is really a troubling situation. All the way around.

So the toy was a reward......why did he need to drop it?  Didn't he earn the reward?  Or are rewards in canine cop work, time sensitive?  And yeah, drug sniffing is a heck of a lot different career path.  We used to have a gal on the forum who handled a drug dog....took her to schools to check for drugs, guns and something else, and also did talks with the students.  From what I remember, this dog was very laid back and gentle and certainly not a lethal weapon.  Her job was to FIND stuff that shouldn't be there......not bring down a fleeing suspect.

My dogs are NOT lethal weapons.  Let's get that out first.  I don't want them to be, although, gosh, any dog surely could be.  But even so, I do want them to mind me yet I've never felt the need to resort to any of these kind of tactics.  Gosh, if we are playing fetch and someone decides to play keepaway, I just turn around and start walking.  The dog and the ball are very quickly at my feet.  If I started whaling on someone, they might drop the ball, but it wouldn't be in submission.....more likely in shock.

It almost sounds to me like these cops are either afraid of the dogs, or doing the macho guy thing.  This isn't training.  It's abuse, pure and simple.

I don't know these things....I've never trained a protection dog even, but isn't the bond between canine and handler supposed to be solid, based on trust and not fear?  Doesn't the human cop depend on the canine cop for his very LIFE?  Why on earth would you kick someone who might save your life later in the day?   Perhaps they do need to be a bit more hands on with the dogs than I would ever be, but, gosh, how on earth does any of THIS behavior build a bond of trust and devotion?  The whole situation just makes me want to puke.

OK, I haven't read all the relevant articles (I will in a minute) but I wonder if my understanding clears things up.

A police dog can be used for both disciplines - sniffing and protection.  I thought it was standard practise, but I could be wrong - or perhaps it is different here.  I thought thats why GSDs were so often used as police dogs - because they are such great "all rounders" when it comes to working.  Often (here anyway) sniffer dogs are labs or springers.

Now, when the toy is the reward....  (again, what I know may be UK specific) initially, the toy has drugs INSIDE it.  So, sniffing out the drugs, means finding the toy.  That's how a lot (I hesitate to say "all";) dogs are trained here.  So obviously, they can't keep the toy forever and do have to surrender it to the handler.  I am reasonably sure taht this is only the initial phase of training toughm and after that the dog finds the drugs and then is given the toy AFTER the fact - but the handler will still make it appear to the dog) as if the toy has come from THAT "hiding place".  Am I making sense?  In a "real life" situation, the dog will have to surrender the to within a reasonable time frame and resume his duties, so I would say it is reasonable to train them to surrender the toy.

 

 I haven't watched the video, even that picture upset me.  I can honestly say that my experiences with NC animal officials was deplorable.  Beyond apathetic is the only description I can give.  The state has a serious image problem to deal with between this and All Creatures Great and Small.  They DO. NOT. CARE.  Hopefully some negative publicity will help to serve the animals suffering in NC as a result of official disregard for abuses that routinely take place in NC.  This is not the way police dogs (or any dogs) should be trained or treated and I hope that some serious clean up and education takes place.

MAKES ME ABSOLUTELY SICK.  And brings back bad memories of my dealings with NC animal welfare authorities. 

Chuffy

OK, I haven't read all the relevant articles (I will in a minute) but I wonder if my understanding clears things up.

A police dog can be used for both disciplines - sniffing and protection.  I thought it was standard practise, but I could be wrong - or perhaps it is different here.  I thought thats why GSDs were so often used as police dogs - because they are such great "all rounders" when it comes to working.  Often (here anyway) sniffer dogs are labs or springers.

Now, when the toy is the reward....  (again, what I know may be UK specific) initially, the toy has drugs INSIDE it.  So, sniffing out the drugs, means finding the toy.  That's how a lot (I hesitate to say "all";) dogs are trained here.  So obviously, they can't keep the toy forever and do have to surrender it to the handler.  I am reasonably sure taht this is only the initial phase of training toughm and after that the dog finds the drugs and then is given the toy AFTER the fact - but the handler will still make it appear to the dog) as if the toy has come from THAT "hiding place".  Am I making sense?  In a "real life" situation, the dog will have to surrender the to within a reasonable time frame and resume his duties, so I would say it is reasonable to train them to surrender the toy.
 

GSDs are used most often because they are biddable, obedience, and level headed in comparison with the insanely drivey Malinois.  The dog in question here is a Malinois, not a GSD.  Technically, the Malinois is the "better" dog for protection and taking down a suspect.  They are typically faster, more aggressive, very high strung, insane drives....but a lot of times people end up with dogs they absolutely cannot control.  They have no "off" switch and often have to be crated or kenneled any time they are not "working".  Malinois were becoming the favorite for police and military, but I understand many are going back to GSDs because they have a more reliable on/off switch and are easier to control because the are more biddable to the handler.  Also, it is rare that the dog actually does have to attack.  In most cases, the visual deterrence is enough, and to a lot of people, a thick boned black sable DDR German Shepherd simply looks more menacing than the smaller, lighter (weight and color) Malinois.  Some of these Malinois being bred and trained for high levels of sport and work are so intense and high strung I really feel for them.  They CAN be a liability.  I'm not trying to bash the breed or generalize, they are my favorite breed, but this is the reality of a lot of these types of dogs (some GSDs too).

Still, there is no reason to HANG and KICK a dog.  Sometimes if the dog is being very aggressive, they will use a technique where they simply lift the dog's head high enough so the front feet are off the ground.  Not condoning it, just saying it's used.  So there is NEVER a reason to hang or helicopter the dog.  If the dog is THAT aggressive and drivey, then they need to rethink the dogs they are using and/or how they are training.  If you cannot control your OWN dog, then that's YOUR problem. 

What kills me is that assaulting a police dog is considered the same as assaulting a policeman.  Remember when someone was jeering at a police dog and got arrested?  Well, this officer can assault his OWN dog and still think he deserves his job back?!?!  He assaulted a fellow officer. 

Breaking dogs like this will turn them into a reactive mess.  He's going to be even more difficult to control b/c he has no reason to respect or trust his handler, plus it appears they are not properly training him for his outs, if they have to BEAT him just to get him to release a toy. 

Liesje

What kills me is that assaulting a police dog is considered the same as assaulting a policeman.  Remember when someone was jeering at a police dog and got arrested?  Well, this officer can assault his OWN dog and still think he deserves his job back?!?!  He assaulted a fellow officer. 

I'm not sure about other states but here in VA, assaulting a police dog is the same as an officer, and carries the same penalties.  Too bad this officer and others who've participated in the same behavior won't be facing the same sanctions.  But if some drug dealer laid a hand on it, they'd be facing an additional and serious charge. 

 

Liesje

Still, there is no reason to HANG and KICK a dog.  Sometimes if the dog is being very aggressive, they will use a technique where they simply lift the dog's head high enough so the front feet are off the ground.  Not condoning it, just saying it's used.  So there is NEVER a reason to hang or helicopter the dog.  If the dog is THAT aggressive and drivey, then they need to rethink the dogs they are using and/or how they are training.  If you cannot control your OWN dog, then that's YOUR problem. 

Just wanted to clarify, in case this bit was directly in reply to me - I agree that the actions of the officer were deplorable!!  (Good word BCMixes!)
I hope that goes w/o saying. 

I was posting mainly to clear up the questions re sniffing/protection being different disciplines and why the dog might be being made to give up the toy (the method used was obviously not acceptable, but wanting the dog to surrender the toy probably WAS, is my thinking).