Royal Canin is sponsoring a commercial breeder conference

    • Gold Top Dog

    Royal Canin is sponsoring a commercial breeder conference

     **CROSSPOSTED**

    Permission to cross post - and complain to Royal Canin about what they are doing.
     
    The Hunte Corporation is hosting a Breeder Conference this year in September.  Details can be found on the website link.  Royal Canin Dog Food is sponsoring this "event" and Nutrisource Dog Food is sponsoring the key note speaker, Mark German, AZ. Dog Whisperer.
     
    Locally, Katie Riopel (KTK9), is the spokesperson for Nutrisource Dog Food on her local radio program.  She is pro-rescue and may not be aware of Hunte's connection to puppymills.
     
    Perhaps lodging complaints with Nutrisource, Royal Canin and the Arizona "Dog Whisperer" are in order here as well as KTK9?
     
    Info on Hunte Corporation  [url]http://www.petstorecruelty.org/Hunte%20Corp.htm[/url]
     
    Hunte Corporation Website  [url]http://www.thehuntecorporation.com/details.aspx[/url]
     
    Nutrisource Dog Food Contact info:  [url]http://www.nutrisourcedogfood.com/contact.php[/url]
     
    Royal Canin Contact info: [url]http://www.royalcanin.us/contact/default.aspx[/url]
     
    KTK9 (Spokesperson for Nutrisource in Mpls. area and local radio show hostess):   heyktk9@peoplepc.com
     
    AZ Dog Whisperer website:  [url]http://www.azdogwhisperer.com/[/url]

    Edited to fix links 

    • Gold Top Dog

         Commercial breeders make up a huge chunk of Royal Canin's sales - I don't understand what the problem is here? Royal Canin is in business to make a profit, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Their food works for breeders, commercial or otherwise, so that is who Royal Canin supports. There are a whole lot of people who think hunting is wrong, but Purina has been the best & most reliable sponsor of breeders and hunters since their inception. They know where their bread is buttered and in liue of being politically correct, they are doing something not often seen these days ... they're being LOYAL to the customers who feed their product. Royal Canin should not be bullied because their food is widely used by commercial breeders (who are NOT the same thing as puppy mills). Why would a shoddy breeder feed such a good, costly food as Royal Canin anyway? Hmmm, maybe just because they are breeding pet quality pups for profit does not mean that their dogs are abused, neglected, poorly bred or poorly taken care of. Hell, *I* can't even afford to use Royal Canin. Speaks volumes about the breeders using them if they are willing to spend that much on food.

    • Gold Top Dog

    HoundMusic
    Hell, *I* can't even afford to use Royal Canin. Speaks volumes about the breeders using them if they are willing to spend that much on food.

    Volume discount or advertising discount would be a big bonus you or I would not be able to take advantage of. I do not agree that boycotting a food business because of their clientele' makes any sense...but nor do I agree that just because a company uses an expensive product...that means anything about their ethics as a whole. It just means they can afford it and I can't.

    • Gold Top Dog
    • Gold Top Dog

    rwbeagles

    I do not agree that boycotting a food business because of their clientele' makes any sense

     

    It's one thing if a customer uses the food - that can't be held against the manufacturer - but it is a whole different situation when the manufacturer is actually sponsoring events for a puppy mill?!? I can't believe any of us would overlook that.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I don't need to overlook it...I don't feed their food. I don't shop at Petland...I've done plenty to show I do not approve of the Hunte Corp, or the "puppy mill" in general.

    The information is interesting, and thanks for posting it.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    What is wrong with sponsering a breeder conference? I'd love to attend one of Dr. Battaglia's Breeding Better Dog seminars!

    • Gold Top Dog

    The problem is that the Hunte Corp are the ones putting the conference on. If they aren't a puppy mill themselevs, then they certaintly support them. They are the biggest supplier of pet store puppies. I boycott pet stores that sell puppies and I'll boycott companies that support these practices, directly or indirectly.

    Royal Canin is a decent food, although I highly doubt that their breeder formula is the same as what is sold in stores as HoundMusic suggested. Hunte certainly could do worse with their feed, but I do not agree with Royal Canin's reciprocal support.

    With the dog lovers here I'm shocked that no one else has a problem with this.

    • Gold Top Dog

    What is wrong with sponsering a breeder conference?

    There is nothing wrong with sponsering a breeder conference - breeder conferences are great ideas. The issue here as I see it, is Hunte Corp in particular and its, shall we say, less than desireable business ventures and poor "quality control".....the most prominent (and saddening) example is their tight connectionwith/supply of Petland and lack of breeder screening, and all the violations, lawsuits, inappropriate transportation, sick and dead dogs and inappropriate disposal therof, poor quality breeding, congenital issues, poor store treatment, etc......VERY far from "quality well-treated pet puppies for profit" AgileGSD I know you've voiced your opinion about reputable commercial breeders, and whether others agree with you or not, honestly -- this one (Hunte) is not (reputable, that is).

    • Gold Top Dog

    This is an intereating post from someone (a show person) who attended a commercial breeder seminar to see a free Pat Hasting seminar. Pat Hasting created The Puppy Puzzle which is a tool to help evaluate structure in young puppies and was giving her Puppy Puzzle seminar at this commercial breeder seminar. I think this is a good thread to cross post this to, as it is the same sort of situation as this breeder's conference.

       > -----Original Message-----
    > Betsy Cummings wrote:
    >
    > Hi all,
    >
    > I got in late last nite from Springfield, MO. What is there to interest  me?
    Well, the 18th Spring Educational Seminar and Meeting of the Missouri Pet Breeders Association. Yeah, the mill folks. They prefer  Professional Breeders. And after what I saw this weekend,I'm quite willing to cut  them some slack. On Friday were 4 seminars, although one was cancelled
    because the State Veterinarian had been bitten by a dog and the rabies vaxx
    was  questionable, so the poor guy has to take the shots and wasn't feeling
    well. So another guy came and spoke on something else. On Saturday was
    Pat Hasting's Puppy Puzzle Seminar - which was FREE. To anybody. How many
    have paid $150 or more to a kennel club to see this seminar? I'm now going to propose a
    viewpoint that I know full well isn't going to  be popular, nor is it going to win me friends. Many of you will scoff and criticize. It's ingrained in "us" to do so. Say the words "mill",or Commercial Breeder and most of us have a knee jerk reaction of total  horror.
     We picture "bubba's" on Walmart parking lots and highway corners selling puppies to anybody
    who comes along. Not that that doesn't happen. However, those folks tend to be wannabe's and illegal puppy mills. There were only  a few people there I'd call "Bubba's" this weekend. MOST of the people were people just like you and me. You couldn't have told by dress or manner
     what these folks did for a living. Most even spoke "educated beyond the 1stgrade" english.
    And it was obvious from the gal with the poodle died pink to the gal who came in with a sheltieshe'd rescued off an 8 lane highway and wanted her put somewhere safe, that these folks live
    and breathe DOGS.

     In that respect, they aren't that much different from you
    and me. Friday's program included one that has me shaking my head and asking where
     "we" ("we" being the show dog fancy) are. The MPBA has no less than 3 professional lobbyists.
     One in Washington DC, and 2 in our state capital. Even more, the State Representative from Salem, MO is one of "them."  These 4 folks stood before a room of about 300 people and gave
    us a list of the legislation they've had a part in killing altogether, or getting changed  to
     something reasonable. My question is...where the hell are WE??? If the MPBA can have THREE
     full time professional lobbyists...what's OUR  problem???  My next question is...Why the HELL aren't we working with these people????
    They know how to do it. They aren't starting from scratch. They've been working in the trenches
     for quite awhile. And all supported by the puppy millers! These folks are fighting for OUR rights as much as for their  own, but the end results are the same - I can still own dogs
    in the state of Missouri, and they don't have to be spayed or neutered either.

    Saturday's program was Pat Hasting's seminar. It was not quite as well attended as some
    of the Friday seminars since it was a 'voluntary' program. (I'll explain that in a minute.) However, the room was probably over half full - call it 200 people give or take. She played the angle toward "If you're breeding better dogs structurally, you make more money." It was a good call. She went over 7 lab puppies - some were from show bred lines,
     and some from a commercial kennel. She wouldn't say which were which.  And based on the
    strengths and faults she found I certainly couldn't tell. One had an ewe neck which she demonstrated by flipping that puppy's head over onto its spine - no distress to the puppy! One had no
    muscling on the inside of it's legs so when she stacked it and pushed just a teensy bit from
     the side the puppy fell over. 3 had slipped hocks. One had a herring  gut. The gasps when each
    of these faults were demonstrated were...quite loud.  And she flat out asked why they weren't breeding away from these faults -  they'd make more money providing a quality, well bred dog than ones with health  and structural issues. There were some good questions from the audience, and some questions that are so basic as to be laughable...except nobody  laughed. These folks are putting forth good effort, and I for one am willing to  give them some credit for that. (And btw - Pat commented that each puppy was  in it's own crate and that when she does show litters they
    usually come in  ONE crate. And those crates were scrupulously clean, with
    food and water.  *G*)

     Having said this, I'll also state I'm not willing to sell to them, or breed with them. But there are
    show folks I can say the same about, so that's nothing different. These folks are however, policing
    themselves. They don't tolerate sub-standard kennels and they turn them in immediately.
    That's better than "we" can say when we tolerate folks we KNOW have  starving animals, or worse.
    And just who is it on most of the news when a rescue makes the news? More often than not it's a "rescuer" or show breeder  turned in by a neighbor...NOT by US. Anyway, these folks are working to improve their industry. For 18 years they have continually raised the bar for their members. They provide seminars on everything from puppy nutrition to health in their kennels to structure - FREE. Not just for their members, but to ANYBODY. It was a very strange feeling to be in a building full of people I have always thought of as the "enemy." So much so I was very reluctant to admit I'm a show breeder. But when I did once or twice, these folks never blinked.  And just who was there? The AKC. Bil-Jac. Eukanuba. Royal Canin. Hunte Corp - who btw, had fully 1/5th of the room for their booth.And let me detour on Hunte Corp a minute. They were
    handing out  information on their standards for buying puppies. IE, the breeders must
     meet some minimum requirements before Hunte will purchase their dogs. On top of  those
     minimum requirements they pay a bonus for such things as health tested parents, Ch parents,
    and something else that escapes me at the moment. So they too are not only raising the bar, but leading the way in doing so.  APRI was there. With videos of their events. I always thought they werejust a paper registry. Well, they're not. And lemme tell ya, the  shutzhundand agility events looked pretty tuff. And not only that, but APRI alone gave $10,000 to the legislative fund - IE, the fund that
    pays for thelobbyists. Our little fledgling groups, PetPAC, etc would KILL for that kind of
     money right now.  And in all of this, I have to wonder...where are we? What are WE doing?  If we choose to attend such a thing, it's voluntary. These folks are  requiring it of their members. You want to be considered a top breeder...then you MUST have continuing education. Not when I feel like it, but MUST, every year, have so many credits of education. Not even our JUDGEShave to do that beyond what they do to earn more breeds.  We watched folks spend THOUSANDS on equipment, food, meds, and by god TREATS. Just who gives treats to their dogs? Those who LOVE them. That's who. I had a conversationwith a guy this weekend about his kennel. He proudly told me he is a "Blue Ribbon Kennel" - meaning he's met the standards for the MPBA to earn that. He gets his education credits,
    etc, and I assume has met some standards of health and cleanliness in his kennels. He said
    he's *never* had an outbreak of anything in his kennel. Not even kennelcough. His "bio standards"
    are set so high that even his family must follow them in the house not just in the kennel. So I asked him what happens  when the dogs leave his kennel. Their immune systems have
    never been challenged and suddenly they're out in the big bad world being hit with everything
     all at once. He went, Oh. I never thought of that. Hm. He said "What do  you do?" And I had to admit I'm a show breeder, so I breed once every few  years and I do take extra precautions while the bitch is pregnant and when the pups are less than 9 weeks old, but that after that I
    have those puppies  outand about every week or two so that not only do I immunize but I give
     their immune systems exposure to things outside of home so that when we do go on
     the road to shows and such they aren't suddenly overwhelmed and have a chance to fight.
     I'm not sure I changed his mind exactly, but I did give him something to think about.

     I admit, I went for the chance to see Pat Hasting's seminar for free. Beyond that I was
     prepared to keep my mouth shut. Instead, I found myself going ...wow. Just how many of us would goto this level of effort to keep our dogs? These people put their money where their mouth is. And I am quite willing to allow them the title Professional
    Breeder and to stop having a knee jerk reaction and give them some credit for
    things even "we" don't do. That doesn't mean there aren't "Bubba's" in this world, or that
     I include those folks in the term Professional Breeder. A professional of  anykind be it lawyer, doctor, handler, veterinarian, engineer, architect, etc has professional standards to meet. These folks do too. And since *I*don't care to provide puppies for every home that wants a dog I'm willing  to allow the professionals to do so. It keeps MY dogs safe
    in the hands ofthose I feel will have respect for the dog, treat it the way I want my  dogs
     treated, and HOPEFULLY they never end up in a shelter or dumped on the  side
     of the road or as bait for a dog fight. And I refuse to slam or denigrate these folks further.

    They are providing  a service not ONE of us wants to do. And they have been working for at least the last 18 years to improve what they do - both in what they produce and
     the conditions under which they produce it. That JQP tends to treat dogs  as a throw away
     commodity isn't entirely their fault. It's not ours either. It's a societal thing and ALL of us must work to change that. Somewhere between dogs in shelters and puppymills lies the answer. I don't know  what it is. But JQP wants dogs - that much is obvious. And right now, even  ourbasic rights to HAVE dogs is under attack. I for one am
    willing to work with the folks who have the experience and the know how to fight these
     things. And I'm willing to give credit where credit is due - here in Missouri at least,
    we have come under LESS attack than other areas and I recognize that a good part of that is because of the professional breeders and their lobbyists efforts.

     Betsy

     Betsy & Kevin Cummings
     Tribute Salukis

    • Gold Top Dog

    From Showdogs-Plus Yahoo group, follow up to the above post:
    I remember several years ago a couple of judges visited the Hunte Corp
    facilities. And one of them wrote about what she saw...and was tried,
    convicted and crucified for her report. To be honest, my own reaction at
    the time was...She's kidding? Right? She has to be joking! My knee jerk
    reaction was one of outrage. I was being betrayed by my own side! I don't
    even remember who it was now, but I bet some of you can remind me! *G*

    And I thought about this all the way home from the seminar. And then I
    thought...yeah, well, if you didn't know some of these things, who else
    doesn't? I'm a nobody. I've been showing dogs for under 10 years, I've
    bred two litters, I have 7 champions in the house - 2 of my own breeding and
    one almost finished (PLEASE GOD, send me a major!), and the other 5
    Champions from other breeders. Just who is gonna care what you think???
    So, I decided I should report what I found - for one thing, I had nothing to
    lose really. *G* I'm pleased, and totally dumbfounded by the responses. I
    have been inundated with requests to forward and reprint and share it.
    Sheila Gross kindly posted for me that permission was granted as I ran out
    of posts yesterday, but still the requests kept pouring in. If I had
    thought I'd get this kind of response I'd have put it on there in the first
    place, but honestly? I more than half expected to be mourning my own
    crucifixion today.

    In my reply to Patty yesterday (that was forwarded here along with my
    original Undercover Weekend post) I posed a question on what other
    organization had been mentioned at the MPBA seminar. Only one person took a
    guess...and she wasn't even close. Well, the organization is...Whelpwise.
    I've not taken advantage of this service myself since as I said I've had a
    grand
    total of 2 litters. But the veterinarian commenting on the service was
    asking everybody WHY they don't use it? At about $400 per use it was still
    cheaper than a veterinarian and an extremely valuable tool for any breeder.
    I was so surprised to hear this service touted there I just about choked.
    That's OUR tool! But yet again, it showed me something I didn't know. These
    folks are *dead serious* about their dogs. If they didn't care, why bother
    with something like Whelpwise?
    I mean hell, you can always get
    another dog! And then it hit me. It's just like buying treats. Treats
    provide nothing toward nutrition - they make US feel better. It's like
    eating chocolate or ice cream for us but liver, chicken and beef are way
    better for the dogs. I counted today just for grins - I have no less than 7
    different boxes and bags of treats on top of the fridge. I saw people this
    weekend carrying off CARTONS of treats. And yeah, I succumbed and bought a
    carton of Bil-Jacs Little Jacs. Hey - it was a heck of a good deal..and my
    guys are nearly taking my FINGERS off. They don't like the ones in the
    little purple cartons though. Strange.

    I didn't mean and I still don't to turn this into a "huzzah" for the
    Professional Breeder. I can't help feeling a bit torn over the whole
    situation. I still can't get nightmare pictures out of my head of dogs in
    tiny cages pumping out litter after litter, never feeling grass under their
    feet, or the soft touch of a loving human hand on their head. But what I
    saw this weekend doesn't "fit" that image.
    Oh sure, it might for the
    Bubbas. But once again I remind you, we have our dirty little secrets too.
    And in that respect, far be it from me to throw stones as I am certainly not
    without sin.

    I would just bet that each and every one of you can name somebody in your
    own breed you are less than happy to have there. And no, I don't mean your
    worst enemy cuz they dissed your dogs, but somebody you KNOW keeps a
    "sub-standard" kennel. What are you doing about it? Again, I'm not talking
    witch hunt here. That would be a very easy trap to fall into. I mean, a
    true "Bubba." Until WE as a group can honestly say we have no Bubbas, I
    don't think we can be tossing stones. Do you? The professional breeders of
    Missouri demonstrated to me this weekend just how far from that nightmare
    image they have come. It's not perfect, it's not how I want to do things,
    but then I know people who keep their dogs in kennel runs instead of the
    house. Doesn't make them "Bubbas" by a long shot. It just makes them
    different from me. I can handle that.

    My entire post was meant to try and open some eyes. I know mine had to be
    round as dinner plates this weekend. I've gotten private e-mails from
    people saying "I know this gal that is a professional breeder, but ya know
    what? She truly cares about her dogs, and if anybody would just give her a
    chance she'd actually make a good addition to our breed." And I didn't get
    just ONE like that. It's just that nobody talks about it. Who wants to
    admit they know a professional breeder, let alone actually LIKE the
    person???? (And no, I'm not gonna out anybody. Take a deep breath. LOL)
    But let somebody actually GIVE that person a chance...and we all know what
    would happen don't we? That big ole cross comes out and people start
    getting crucified. Heck, I admit, I was pretty happy to find nobody in the
    MPBA directory breeding salukis. I half suspect that given the look of my
    breed that many would be afraid of being turned in for starving their dogs.
    It's happened in the past to hobby breeders and owners. It's the first
    question many sighthound owners get. Don't you feed that dog??

    So I'll close this by saying I'm impressed with "us." I'm not hanging on a
    cross this evening, and I've had so many e-mails of support I'm literally
    overwhelmed. We've come a long way in our willingness to be openminded
    since we crucified that poor judge. There is a long way to go yet. But
    maybe, just maybe, the "us vs them" mentality can quietly go back where it
    came from and we can get on with doing something important. Like fighting
    BSL. And fighting BAD laws. And definitely exposing PETA and HSUS for the
    whacked lunatics they are. Because ya know what other reaction I get from
    JQP when I mention bad legislation? I didn't know we weren't gonna be able
    to own a dog. I LOVE my dog. Seems to me we're doing a piss poor job of
    getting the word out on even this, the biggest fight we've ever faced. Stop
    preaching to the choir folks and start talking to Fluffy's owner down the
    street. They may not get why they shouldn't let Fluffy out the front door
    to go play in the street, but they WILL by God get it that they won't even
    HAVE Fluffy if we lose.

    (And yes, permission to cross post granted should anybody care to. *G*)


    Betsy

    Betsy & Kevin Cummings
    Tribute Salukis
    Visit us at www.K9Stitches.com

    • Gold Top Dog

     My $$$ has power and how I choose to use that power is up to me.  I can hurt a manufacturer by boycotting it when it allies itself with another entity whose business or practices I disagree with.  By choosing not to buy RC products (treats in my case) because they align themselves with a despicable corporation like Hunte, I'm sending a small, tiny little signal.  RC and Hunte can choose to disregard it, and likely will, but it's still my signal to send. 

    Just like the push for people concerned about Darfur to divest themselves of stock that aids the government of Sudan in their abuses.  The almighty dollar speaks louder than all.

     http://www.darfurdivestment.org/

    • Gold Top Dog

    AgileGSD

    What is wrong with sponsering a breeder conference? I'd love to attend one of Dr. Battaglia's Breeding Better Dog seminars!

     

         That's what I'm still trying to figure out, lol.

         First, you have commercial breeders attending seminars to better educate themselves, and create a better breeding program, healthier dogs. Second, the only reason I ever heard about Nutri Source was from a commercial breeder, they are very big on that & Royal Canin. Even with the breeder discounts, these are two costly feeds, and I don't think anyone here could argue they are piss poor, low quality foods. In fact, Nutri Source was a WDJ approved food. So not only do they feed their dogs VERY well, they are also attempting to improve what they produce.

         So I don't see what the point is if Hunte is behind this in any way, shape or form. Wouldn't you want HEALTHIER dogs coming from pet stores? Because agree with the practice or not, commercial breeders sell to both the public and to brokers, and the only ones who win from better nutrition and these sorts of seminars are the dogs. Period. Oh, wait. Show breeders are the only ones who should be breeding because they're improving the breed. Uh huh. The hypocracy knows no bounds ...

    • Gold Top Dog

    HoundMusic

         Commercial breeders make up a huge chunk of Royal Canin's sales - I don't understand what the problem is here? Royal Canin is in business to make a profit, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Their food works for breeders, commercial or otherwise, so that is who Royal Canin supports. There are a whole lot of people who think hunting is wrong, but Purina has been the best & most reliable sponsor of breeders and hunters since their inception. They know where their bread is buttered and in liue of being politically correct, they are doing something not often seen these days ... they're being LOYAL to the customers who feed their product. Royal Canin should not be bullied because their food is widely used by commercial breeders (who are NOT the same thing as puppy mills). Why would a shoddy breeder feed such a good, costly food as Royal Canin anyway? Hmmm, maybe just because they are breeding pet quality pups for profit does not mean that their dogs are abused, neglected, poorly bred or poorly taken care of. Hell, *I* can't even afford to use Royal Canin. Speaks volumes about the breeders using them if they are willing to spend that much on food.

     


    Hmmm...I'm not sure why feeding quality food (that they are getting a nice bulk discount on I'm certain) means that they are just a bunch of fantastic commercial breeders.  Part of maintaining health is decent nutrition, and part of keeping their bottom line healthy is keeping their animals healthy.  That's not called caring, that's called good business sense.  

    Telling a company what you think of it's policies is not bullying, it's giving feedback.  I do not agree with commercial breeders.  I do not want any part of commercial breeders.  Period.  People can talk about what a hypocrite I am and how commercial breeders make the world go round and how if we didn't have them then Labrador puppies would be $495832984 and rare as hen's teeth all they want, but that does not change my opinion on the matter. 

    While I do not go so far as to say that they should be outlawed altogether, the entire concept of companies making profits churning out large numbers of puppies (even clean, well fed puppies) makes me ill.  Therefore, I see nothing wrong with telling a company whose products I use that I do not agree with their decision to support commercial breeders in this manner, and that I am going to look at other products because of it.

    I don't get some posters on here.  People whine when posters think that there should be a law against commercial breeders.  Then, when people propose a way to show their disagreement with commercial breeders without involving the law, people still whine....Hmm  

    • Gold Top Dog

    Ok....er, 'll try again since evidently my first post wasn't understood....

     
    REGARDLESS of what you feel about commercial breeding, I think we can all agree that Hunte Corp is a pretty terrible example of a commercial breeder, and that is what is behind most of the complaints here.

     
    I'm not attacking breeders. Every time someone disapprovedsof a large volume breeder, certain people start mentally hemorrhaging. Relax. We are saying Hunte Corp (IN PARTICULAR) is a piece of, well, you know - because of HOW they choose, breed, transport, market, and flat out take care of their dogs. NOT simply the fact that they are a commercial breeder. And I am (and others as well) refusing to deal with someone who is supporting them and contributing to their advertising.  If you think that going to a conference is going to help them clean up their act...well, that is a wonderful but extremely naive thought.