Iditarod 2008 fatality update

"Mackey earned $69,000 from an $875,000 purse and a new truck."

That is this years winner.  Cute pic of dog with him here:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/outdoors/16592876.html

  I own a Dogo and although I have not had the opportunity to hunt him, I am not opposed to hunting them. Many die in this sport.  The deaths are not easy ones. I have heard stories of dogs that drown trying to follow a boar into the water, stories of dogs disemboweled, throats cut, lungs punctured and multiple cuts received against boar. It is not uncommon to lose a dog. Yet the dogs seem to live for the hunt, injured dogs that recover are eager to go back out, I have yet to hear of one that refused to hunt or lost the desire due to injury.

 Those that I know that hunt have a huge love and respect for their dogs and take any loss of one hard. They carry first aid kits that put most human ones to shame and I even know one hunter who administers IV’s in the field in order to do all that they can to ensure their dogs survive

 What is the answer? Ban hunting, ban grueling sled races? What happens to the breed when we do this? What will the purpose of the breed be? Will what we love and admire in the sled dogs go away and we will be left with a dog that just lays around the house like any old breed and only looks like a sled dog? Is there something in the sled dog breeds that you love and admire that would not even be there without that intense desire to run and that endurance that defies many breeds?

  I know that for the Dogo what I admire about them is their character, their courage and their tenacity but if we stop hunting them eventually we will end up with something that only looks like a Dogo

timsdat

snownose

shorter runs would be easier on the dogs and more rest time after snacking and meal time....

The winner this year spend 67 1/2 hours resting at the 20 checkpoints during the race.  Also if you look at the average speed between checkpoints it is plain to see that they weren't pushing at full speed along every point of the race.  The mushers also rest their dogs on the trail during the race.

Two mandatory stops of 24 hours and 8 hours....then you have the vet checks and simply what the musher couldn't handle anymore.....King has been known to fall asleep on his sled and other mushers have fallen asleep while the dogs were going......mushers have gotten lost that way.....

Think of it this way......10 days on the trail = 240 hours.....minus 67.5 hours hours is 172.5 hours for less than 10 days......that comes to almost 18 hours a day....roughly( my original number is off by roughly 2 hours due to rest included in race time)....so, since the dogs rested 24 hours and 8 hours they had to make that time up......I am sure there were times when they spent more than 20 plus hours on the trail.....still sound good to you?

dgriego

  What is the answer? Ban hunting, ban grueling sled races? What happens to the breed when we do this? What will the purpose of the breed be? Will what we love and admire in the sled dogs go away and we will be left with a dog that just lays around the house like any old breed and only looks like a sled dog? Is there something in the sled dog breeds that you love and admire that would not even be there without that intense desire to run and that endurance that defies many breeds?

  I know that for the Dogo what I admire about them is their character, their courage and their tenacity but if we stop hunting them eventually we will end up with something that only looks like a Dogo

 What an excellent post!

AgileGSD

dgriego

  What is the answer? Ban hunting, ban grueling sled races? What happens to the breed when we do this? What will the purpose of the breed be? Will what we love and admire in the sled dogs go away and we will be left with a dog that just lays around the house like any old breed and only looks like a sled dog? Is there something in the sled dog breeds that you love and admire that would not even be there without that intense desire to run and that endurance that defies many breeds?

  I know that for the Dogo what I admire about them is their character, their courage and their tenacity but if we stop hunting them eventually we will end up with something that only looks like a Dogo

 What an excellent post!

So, out of all posts this is the one you feel you could relate to......good enough.......nothing to say on how hard these dogs have to run, or you  just don't care?

snownose

I am sure there were times when they spent more than 20 plus hours on the trail.....still sound good to you?

20 hours on the trail doesn't mean that they were running those entire 20 hours.  If you look on the longer segments the average speed drops.  So it sounds to me like they resting enroute.

and yes it still sounds good to me.  These dogs are not pets!  They are bred and conditioned to handle these races.  They are not pushing these dogs beyond their capabilities because if they were the dogs would never be able to finish.  I trust the mushers to know what their dogs can handle.

timsdat

snownose

I am sure there were times when they spent more than 20 plus hours on the trail.....still sound good to you?

20 hours on the trail doesn't mean that they were running those entire 20 hours.  If you look on the longer segments the average speed drops.  So it sounds to me like they resting enroute.

and yes it still sounds good to me.  These dogs are not pets!  They are bred and conditioned to handle these races.  They are not pushing these dogs beyond their capabilities because if they were the dogs would never be able to finish.  I trust the mushers to know what their dogs can handle.

Nothing changes......1100 plus miles.......in 10  days minus the rest days.....still adds up to.......ahem.....what???

 

You have athletes that stand out and are super.....but, how many had to suffer?

We are not talking that all teams ended up like the winner.....funny thing is , why don't we see the dogs that pass after the race or are totally wrecked due to the race.....truth is ....we just dont......just like this year.....when the team got hit by a snow machine, one died instantly and the other is what?????? They reported this dog as heavily injured........what happened ......and what happened to all other sick and injured dogs.......

You see, reporting deaths of dogs that passed happens while the race is going on......what about after........

Liesje

Dogs don't know any better, people do.  I agree with Karyn, the race should be a relay like it was meant to be.  What's wrong with that?  Cut up the distance over several teams.  The dogs can still run, there's still the glory of the race and the tradition... 

 Because then it wouldn't be so "exciting" and "prestigous" to win.  That's really what it's all about.  Glory to the human.  Animals be damned.

 For the record, I too do not believe the race should be stopped.  But I do believe it needs change.

snownose

We are not talking that all teams ended up like the winner.....funny thing is , why don't we see the dogs that pass after the race or are totally wrecked due to the race.....truth is ....we just dont......just like this year.....when the team got hit by a snow machine, one died instantly and the other is what?????? They reported this dog as heavily injured........what happened ......and what happened to all other sick and injured dogs.......

 A dog that I had in class was killed by a snow mobile. She was a well loved, pet GSD out on her daily walk - very sad :(

AgileGSD

A dog that I had in class was killed by a snow mobile. She was a well loved, pet GSD out on her daily walk - very sad :(

How very sad......would you say that was an isolated incident.....or deaths happen in your class every year?

snownose

How very sad......would you say that was an isolated incident.....or deaths happen in your class every year?

 Where did I say the dog was in class when it happened? I was in agility class one time with a guy who had working Aussies he used on cattle and horses. The one he was doing agility with was killed by cattle trampling it. That was very sad. I imagine it happens every year but I'm not going to say dogs should never be used on cattle because it can be risky. Dogs are also killed every year in dog parks, which I wouldn't go to but wouldn't try to make illegal either.

AgileGSD

snownose

How very sad......would you say that was an isolated incident.....or deaths happen in your class every year?

 Where did I say the dog was in class when it happened? I was in agility class one time with a guy who had working Aussies he used on cattle and horses. The one he was doing agility with was killed by cattle trampling it. That was very sad. I imagine it happens every year but I'm not going to say dogs should never be used on cattle because it can be risky. Dogs are also killed every year in dog parks, which I wouldn't go to but wouldn't try to make illegal either.

Apologies........but, let's say you were involved in a sport were several dogs were killed and many others got injured, suffered and in pain.....would you be part of it and participate?

Just thinking.....if we had these kinds of injuries and death rates in the Boston Marathon,would this continue?

Actually, there are injuries in marathons, and they're not actually all that unusual. I believe there was a fatality a few years ago during the White Rock Marathon here in Dallas (heart attack), and my cousin took a bad step into a pot hole in a marathon she ran in NY and broke her ankle a mile from the finish. I've also seen a guy run into a car during the WRM and give himself a concussion, but he was goofing around at the start. :P

Cait 

Pwca

Actually, there are injuries in marathons, and they're not actually all that unusual. I believe there was a fatality a few years ago during the White Rock Marathon here in Dallas (heart attack), and my cousin took a bad step into a pot hole in a marathon she ran in NY and broke her ankle a mile from the finish. I've also seen a guy run into a car during the WRM and give himself a concussion, but he was goofing around at the start. :P

I was in Honolulu for a U2 concert and the Honolulu marathon was the same weekend.  One of the winners (maybe it was the winner) had a heart attack across the line.  The ONLY reason he survived was b/c they had just decided to keep portable AEDs along the marathon route and used one to save his life. 

Gymnastics is my sport of choice and we have had a few sport-related deaths (usually not direct causation, but still) and enough paralyzations to make an uncomfortable level of risk for some. 

snownose

Apologies........but, let's say you were involved in a sport were several dogs were killed and many others got injured, suffered and in pain.....would you be part of it and participate?

 Large game hunting results in a lot of injuries and deaths yet I still support it. The dogs are well cared for, they are vested and collared to protect them from injury, they receive human level first aid in the field when they are hurt and yet no matter how hard you try there are always times when one is injured or killed.

 I have read posts from hunters who lost their dogs in a hunt, you cannot fake the sorrow that they portray, I have read the tributes to their dogs and they are as heart felt as those I read here on this forum in the rainbow bridge section. I know of many who for sure love their dogs just as much as the people on this forum love theirs.

 I have seen the dogs and their joy in the hunt, even those scarred from previous hunts, their one focus is the game and bringing it down, if they were being forced to hunt then you would not see this eagerness to go out, nor would you hear the howls of outrage from the ones left behind on a hunt. It is what they are bred to do. Hektor's father is covered in scars from hundreds of boar encounters, and yet he is eager to go and will go hard after any pig. Dogs receive injuries in the field and you have to tie them up to keep them from continuing in the hunt, they would rather hunt than lay around and receive stitches.

 It would be cruel to force a dog to run, one that did not want to run, just as it would be cruel to take a Pomeranian and put him out against a wild boar, but for a dog to do what he does best, what he was bred to do, and what he loves to do is not cruel, even if it results in loss of life or injury although the owners should do all that they can to prevent that injury or loss of life.

 I still say I do not know enough about sled dogs, but from what I have read they also have this intense drive, this desire to run and that is their purpose. As for changing the race, well that is for the sled dog people to discuss and decide since they are the ones that love the dogs the most, and I cannot help but think that any musher worth his salt is one that has a great love and respect for the dogs that pull him. If he doesnt then maybe he should be gotten rid of instead of the race.