HoundMusic

ottoluv

With all due respect, it's hardly an act of god. If the dog was not involved in the race it likely wouldn't have happened. I think that it's great that people love and participate in different sports, but it's really important to realize the risk involved. It is abnormal to aspirate.

     But the dog WAS involved in the race, and there simply is no one to blame. The death itself was an act of God - there was no negligence involved. It's a risky sport, but some are out to portray it as cruelty, and I don't buy that.

ottoluv

It depends on what you think neglegence is.

are you saying that the death of the dog is due to negligence?

DrOgreys

 Perhaps we should reserve "risky sport" to those who willingly choose to participate, rather than those who are forced to... please don't argue the "they are bred for..." aspect. I am fervently involved in the quest to eliminate greyhound racing. I have argued with the best of them.

 Sorry but I do not think comparing this to greyhound racing even comes close. Greyhound racing is non dog people, using an animal for the purpose of greed and gambeling, similar to dog fighting. The owner or trainer has no repore with the dogs, they are tools.

 Musher's and hunters have a relationship with their dogs, each is risking themselves and there exists commraderie. Yes there are bad mushers and bad hunters but neither can be compared to greyhound racing or dog fighting. It is a different type of person.

 As for the musher who owns this dog

"Rookie musher John Stetson of Duluth, Minn., scratched Saturday in Cripple following the early morning death of a 7-year-old male dog on his team. Stetson, who was 61st in the standings, cited the death of Zaster as well as concerns over sick dogs as his reasons for scratching."

 This does not sound like the actions of one who is in the race for greed. How many greyhound owners and trainers quit because one of their dogs die? None. IMO it is an insult to compare this type of racing to the racing of greyhound.

Personally, I feel the race in itself is too much for the best athlete dogs.....and I love the sport......but, let's face it.....the race is copied after the original serum run.....which, by the way was run in stages by different teams.......not the same dogs all the way to Nome........over 1150 miles in about 10 to 12 days.......these dogs suffer severe stress and run down, not to mention injuries and illness/death .... one must really think about what the point behind this is.....

Several teams seems to be the way to go....to honor the original run......

So whats the point?  Are all dogs suppose to be lap dogs then?  How many dogs die or live a shorten life because their owners over feed them, exercise them little or allow them to get hit by cars?  That is neglegence.   How is it neglegent in the case of this sled dog?  It sounds like everything was done for the dog and it recieved treatment quickly. 

snownose

Personally, I feel the race in itself is too much for the best athlete dogs.....and I love the sport......but, let's face it.....the race is copied after the original serum run.....which, by the way was run in stages by different teams.......not the same dogs all the way to Nome........over 1150 miles in about 10 to 12 days.......these dogs suffer severe stress and run down, not to mention injuries and illness/death .... one must really think about what the point behind this is.....

Several teams seems to be the way to go....to honor the original run......

That would be a better way to do then, I wonder why they don't?  Do you know why they changed it and how long they have been running it this way?

Ado

So whats the point?  Are all dogs suppose to be lap dogs then?  How many dogs die or live a shorten life because their owners over feed them, exercise them little or allow them to get hit by cars?  That is neglegence.   How is it neglegent in the case of this sled dog?  It sounds like everything was done for the dog and it recieved treatment quickly. 

The point is, as originally stated~ there is no need to "use" our lesser creatures for sport, entertainment, or greed.

Overfeed? Exercise them little? Hit by cars? You are rapidly drifting to a completely unrelated discussion. Please try to keep focus. They depend on us to do do so.

I have rescued, yes~ rescued greyhounds, for over 15 years. If I would list proveable tales, it would turn the stomachs of even the most ardent "sport" advocates.  

DrOgreys

The point is, as originally stated~ there is no need to "use" our lesser creatures for sport, entertainment, or greed.

 And I applaud you for rescuing greyhounds, and I have read a few of the stories but IMO you are throwing the baby out with the bathwater when you condemn all sports and when you assume that those who participate in them are the same as those from whom you have rescued greyhounds from.

At first, the Iditarod was half the distance it was now and it was to commemorate Leonard Seppala, founder of the Seppala line of Siberian Huskies. Later it was expanded and designed to honor the serum run. And you are right. The original run was half the distance. The first half of the run was planes, trains, automobiles. The second half was a relay of several teams.

Nowadays, single teams make it in less time than the original run. And I agree that it is a human's predilection to win that makes it a race. And a dog can aspirate sitting in the back yard. And so it's cruel to run a dog that might aspirate, due to excitement but it's an acceptable to risk to feed raw, in spite of the risk that a dog could get perforated by a bone? Just as they might by a twig in the back yard? There is always risk.

ron2

At first, the Iditarod was half the distance it was now and it was to commemorate Leonard Seppala, founder of the Seppala line of Siberian Huskies. Later it was expanded and designed to honor the serum run. And you are right. The original run was half the distance. The first half of the run was planes, trains, automobiles. The second half was a relay of several teams.

Nowadays, single teams make it in less time than the original run. And I agree that it is a human's predilection to win that makes it a race. And a dog can aspirate sitting in the back yard. And so it's cruel to run a dog that might aspirate, due to excitement but it's an acceptable to risk to feed raw, in spite of the risk that a dog could get perforated by a bone? Just as they might by a twig in the back yard? There is always risk.

I think for most people to understand how hard this race is one must check on the mushers that scratch due to dogs being sick, lost or injured......check on how many dogs are started....starting teams are 16 dogs.......most mushers do not make it to Nome with 16 dogs......that's not just a few dogs.......that's a lot of dogs that don't make it.....and....don't forget that these dogs have a very hard season, not only are they being run in the Iditarod......there are many other races ......

I still don't see why the race can't be run with several teams.....

The next post is the current standings of the race.......keep in mind there are many more days to go for most mushers.....many more dogs will be dropped and mushers will scratch due to dogs giving up or not making it due to illness or injuries.....

Pos	Musher	Bib	Checkpoint	Time In	Dogs In	Time Out	Dogs Out	Rest	Time Enroute	Previous	Layover	Status
Checkpoint	Time Out	Speed (mph)	8 Hr	24 Hr
1	Lance Mackey	6	Shaktoolik	03/10 01:14:00	12				6h 57m	Unalakleet	03/09 18:17:00	6.04
2	Jeff King	11	Shaktoolik	03/10 01:27:00	16				6h 26m	Unalakleet	03/09 19:01:00	6.53
3	Hans Gatt	38	Unalakleet	03/10 02:20:00	12	03/10/2008 02:27:00	12	0h 7m	15h 58m	Kaltag	03/09 10:22:00	5.64
4	Paul Gebhardt	69	Unalakleet	03/09 23:10:00	12	03/10/2008 02:56:00	12	3h 46m	17h 20m	Kaltag	03/09 05:50:00	5.19
5	Kjetil Backen	42	Unalakleet	03/09 21:48:00	13	03/10/2008 02:57:00	13	5h 9m	11h 27m	Kaltag	03/09 10:21:00	7.86
6	Mitch Seavey	33	Unalakleet	03/09 22:10:00	9	03/10/2008 03:16:00	9	5h 6m	11h 10m	Kaltag	03/09 11:00:00	8.06
7	Martin Buser	13	Unalakleet	03/09 22:59:00	14	03/10/2008 03:39:00	13	4h 40m	11h 14m	Kaltag	03/09 11:45:00	8.01
8	Rick Swenson	61	Unalakleet	03/09 22:15:00	13	03/10/2008 03:57:00	13	5h 42m	10h 22m	Kaltag	03/09 11:53:00	8.68
9	Ken Anderson	9	Unalakleet	03/09 23:15:00	15	03/10/2008 04:34:00	15	5h 19m	10h 33m	Kaltag	03/09 12:42:00	8.53
10	Ed Iten	32	Unalakleet	03/10 00:22:00	15				11h 46m	Kaltag	03/09 12:36:00	7.65
11	Jim Lanier	4	Unalakleet	03/10 00:41:00	12				12h 39m	Kaltag	03/09 12:02:00	7.11
12	DeeDee Jonrowe	39	Unalakleet	03/10 00:45:00	12				12h 19m	Kaltag	03/09 12:26:00	7.31
13	Jessie Royer	3	Unalakleet	03/10 01:17:00	12				13h 37m	Kaltag	03/09 11:40:00	6.61
14	Ramey Smyth	48	Unalakleet	03/10 01:26:00	12				16h 6m	Kaltag	03/09 09:20:00	5.59
15	Sebastian Schnuelle	68	Unalakleet	03/10 01:40:00	15				15h 20m	Kaltag	03/09 10:20:00	5.87
16	Zack Steer	26	Unalakleet	03/10 01:47:00	12				16h 11m	Kaltag	03/09 09:36:00	5.56
17	John Baker	67	Unalakleet	03/10 01:56:00	12				12h 26m	Kaltag	03/09 13:30:00	7.24
18	Gerry Willomitzer	7	Unalakleet	03/10 02:10:00	13				15h 27m	Kaltag	03/09 10:43:00	5.83
19	Aaron Burmeister	14	Kaltag	03/09 07:14:00	12	03/09/2008 12:44:00	12	5h 30m	5h 39m	Nulato	03/09 00:35:00	7.43
20	Silvia Willis	40	Kaltag	03/09 12:43:00	13	03/09/2008 13:10:00	13	0h 27m	4h 45m	Nulato	03/09 07:58:00	8.84
21	Sigrid Ekran	24	Kaltag	03/09 10:30:00	11	03/09/2008 16:20:00	11	5h 50m	5h 14m	Nulato	03/09 05:16:00	8.03
22	Hugh Neff	16	Kaltag	03/09 11:45:00	10	03/09/2008 17:00:00	9	5h 15m	5h 5m	Nulato	03/09 06:40:00	8.26
23	Ray Redington, Jr	49	Kaltag	03/09 11:20:00	13	03/09/2008 17:30:00	12	6h 10m	4h 41m	Nulato	03/09 06:39:00	8.97
24	Warren Palfrey	44	Kaltag	03/09 13:38:00	12	03/09/2008 19:36:00	11	5h 58m	5h 17m	Nulato	03/09 08:21:00	7.95
25	Aliy Zirkle	17	Kaltag	03/09 14:48:00	12	03/09/2008 19:57:00	12	5h 9m	5h 11m	Nulato	03/09 09:37:00	8.10
26	Melissa Owens (r)	59	Kaltag	03/09 20:00:00	10	03/09/2008 20:12:00	10	0h 12m	5h 46m	Nulato	03/09 14:14:00	7.28
27	Cim Smyth	2	Kaltag	03/09 11:50:00	11	03/09/2008 20:26:00	11	8h 36m	3h 49m	Nulato	03/09 08:01:00	11.00
28	William Kleedehn (r)	66	Kaltag	03/09 14:49:00	12	03/09/2008 21:28:00	11	6h 39m	5h 6m	Nulato	03/09 09:43:00	8.24
29	Rick Casillo	34	Kaltag	03/09 12:52:00	10	03/09/2008 21:50:00	9	8h 58m	5h 5m	Nulato	03/09 07:47:00	8.26
30	Ed Stielstra	92	Kaltag	03/09 14:56:00	11	03/09/2008 22:00:00	11	7h 4m	5h 33m	Nulato	03/09 09:23:00	7.57
31	Louis Nelson, Sr.	80	Kaltag	03/09 16:03:00	13	03/09/2008 22:40:00	12	6h 37m	6h 14m	Nulato	03/09 09:49:00	6.74
32	Matt Hayashida	5	Kaltag	03/09 16:30:00	10	03/10/2008 00:36:00	9	8h 6m	5h 6m	Nulato	03/09 11:24:00	8.24
33	Rohn Buser (r)	37	Kaltag	03/09 16:50:00	9	03/10/2008 00:38:00	8	7h 48m	5h 48m	Nulato	03/09 11:02:00	7.24
34	Scott Smith	35	Kaltag	03/09 18:55:00	10				5h 56m	Nulato	03/09 12:59:00	7.08
35	Gerald Sousa	10	Kaltag	03/09 23:20:00					5h 23m	Nulato	03/09 17:57:00	7.80
36	Robert Bundtzen	97	Kaltag	03/10 01:10:00	14				6h 10m	Nulato	03/09 19:00:00	6.81
37	Rudi Niggemeier (r)	52	Kaltag	03/10 03:50:00	14				5h 27m	Nulato	03/09 22:23:00	7.71
38	Molly Yazwinski (r)	62	Nulato	03/09 13:14:00	12	03/09/2008 18:08:00	11	4h 54m	5h 56m	Galena	03/09 07:18:00	8.76
39	Rick Larson	95	Nulato	03/09 15:37:00	10	03/09/2008 22:55:00	10	7h 18m	6h 37m	Galena	03/09 09:00:00	7.86
40	Cindy Gallea	82	Nulato	03/09 15:28:00	12	03/09/2008 22:57:00	11	7h 29m	6h 26m	Galena	03/09 09:02:00	8.08
41	Jon Korta	71	Nulato	03/09 20:36:00	15	03/10/2008 01:43:00	15	5h 7m	7h 6m	Galena	03/09 13:30:00	7.32
42	Sven Haltmann (r)	73	Nulato	03/09 17:58:00	14	03/10/2008 01:56:00	13	7h 58m	3h 58m	Galena	03/09 14:00:00	13.11
43	Clint Warnke	15	Nulato	03/09 14:24:00	11				6h 51m	Galena	03/09 07:33:00	7.59
44	Peter Bartlett	93	Nulato	03/09 18:58:00	14				6h 45m	Galena	03/09 12:13:00	7.70
45	Jason Mackey	36	Nulato	03/09 20:06:00	14				6h 6m	Galena	03/09 14:00:00	8.52
46	William Hanes	74	Nulato	03/09 20:50:00	8				8h 3m	Galena	03/09 12:47:00	6.46
47	Lachlan Clarke	58	Nulato	03/09 21:25:00	14				7h 45m	Galena	03/09 13:40:00	6.71
48	Robert Nelson (r)	70	Nulato	03/09 21:48:00	15				7h 23m	Galena	03/09 14:25:00	7.04
49	Benoit Gerard (r)	91	Nulato	03/09 21:57:00	9				7h 35m	Galena	03/09 14:22:00	6.86
50	Karen Ramstead	19	Nulato	03/09 22:10:00	14				7h 54m	Galena	03/09 14:16:00	6.58
51	Kelley Griffin	86	Nulato	03/09 22:30:00	12				8h 15m	Galena	03/09 14:15:00	6.30
52	Allen Moore	76	Nulato	03/09 22:40:00	12				6h 27m	Galena	03/09 16:13:00	8.06
53	Bruce Linton	8	Nulato	03/09 23:05:00	11				7h 8m	Galena	03/09 15:57:00	7.29
54	Fabrizio Lovati	77	Nulato	03/10 03:10:00	13				6h 48m	Galena	03/09 20:22:00	7.65
55	Blake Freking	54	Nulato	03/10 04:23:00	11				9h 16m	Galena	03/09 19:07:00	5.61
56	Jennifer Freking (r)	60	Nulato	03/10 04:24:00	13				9h 17m	Galena	03/09 19:07:00	5.60
57	Zoya DeNure (r)	89	Nulato	03/10 04:25:00	12				8h 42m	Galena	03/09 19:43:00	5.98
58	Rick Holt (r)	20	Nulato	03/10 04:26:00	13				9h 13m	Galena	03/09 19:13:00	5.64
59	Matt Calore	30	Galena	03/09 18:08:00	10	03/10/2008 03:08:00	10	9h 0m	6h 43m	Ruby	03/09 11:25:00	7.74
60	Benedikt Beisch (r)	64	Galena	03/09 15:06:00	13	03/10/2008 03:45:00	13	12h 39m	5h 48m	Ruby	03/09 09:18:00	8.97
61	Joe Gans (r)	12	Galena	03/09 18:24:00	16				6h 29m	Ruby	03/09 11:55:00	8.02
62	Jeff Deeter (r)	50	Galena	03/10 00:52:00	13				6h 29m	Ruby	03/09 18:23:00	8.02
63	Jake Berkowitz (r)	43	Galena	03/10 01:53:00	10				7h 19m	Ruby	03/09 18:34:00	7.11
64	Joe Runyan	83	Galena	03/10 02:20:00	15				6h 33m	Ruby	03/09 19:47:00	7.94
65	Rachael Scdoris	55	Galena	03/10 02:21:00	13				6h 33m	Ruby	03/09 19:48:00	7.94
66	Laura Daugereau (r)	29	Galena	03/10 02:26:00	13				6h 46m	Ruby	03/09 19:40:00	7.68
67	Rich Corcoran (r)	84	Galena	03/10 03:00:00	13				6h 57m	Ruby	03/09 20:03:00	7.48
68	Wayne Curtis	22	Ruby	03/09 10:53:00	15	03/09/2008 19:09:00	15	8h 16m	15h 45m	Cripple	03/08 18:08:00	7.11
69	Kirk Barnum (r)	31	Ruby	03/09 14:17:00	9	03/09/2008 22:55:00	9	8h 38m	13h 31m	Cripple	03/08 23:46:00	8.29
70	Gene L Smith (r)	53	Ruby	03/09 18:27:00	11	03/10/2008 02:40:00	9	8h 13m	13h 54m	Cripple	03/09 04:33:00	8.06
71	Michael Suprenant (r)	46	Ruby	03/09 14:44:00	13				14h 3m	Cripple	03/08 23:41:00	7.97
72	Art Church, Jr	18	Ruby	03/09 17:22:00	12				8h 54m	Cripple	03/09 08:28:00	12.58
73	Sue Allen	27	Ruby	03/09 20:35:00					11h 56m	Cripple	03/09 08:39:00	9.39
74	Eric Rogers	25	Ruby	03/09 22:24:00	13				13h 57m	Cripple	03/09 08:27:00	8.03
75	Sam Deltour (r)	63	Ruby	03/09 22:35:00	16				16h 50m	Cripple	03/09 05:45:00	6.65
76	Heather Siirtola	47	Ruby	03/09 23:26:00	9				14h 36m	Cripple	03/09 08:50:00	7.67
77	Richard Savoyski (r)	90	Ruby	03/09 23:45:00	10				9h 55m	Cripple	03/09 13:50:00	11.29
78	Anne Capistrant (r)	88	Ruby	03/09 23:46:00					16h 2m	Cripple	03/09 07:44:00	6.99
79	Martin Koenig (r)	96	Ruby	03/10 00:45:00	12				11h 45m	Cripple	03/09 13:00:00	9.53
80	Sue Morgan (r)	72	Ruby	03/10 00:53:00	13				12h 43m	Cripple	03/09 12:10:00	8.81
81	Liz Parrish (r)	75	Ruby	03/10 01:55:00					10h 40m	Cripple	03/09 15:15:00	10.50
82	Dries Jacobs (r)	65	Ruby	03/10 03:45:00	14				14h 42m	Cripple	03/09 13:03:00	7.62
83	Trent Herbst	85	Cripple	03/09 01:20:00	15	03/09/2008 13:51:00	15	11h 31m	16h 55m	Ophir	03/08 08:25:00	3.49
84	Deborah Bicknell (r)	21	Cripple	03/09 01:30:00	11	03/09/2008 15:07:00	11	12h 37m	14h 2m	Ophir	03/08 11:28:00	4.20
85	Steven Madsen	57	Cripple	03/09 07:40:00	12	03/09/2008 16:25:00	11	8h 45m	19h 48m	Ophir	03/08 10:52:00	2.98

Pos	Musher	Bib	Checkpoint	Time In	Dogs In	Time Out	Dogs Out	Rest	Time Enroute	Previous	Layover	Status
Checkpoint	Time Out	Speed (mph)	8 Hr	24 Hr
	Darin Nelson (r)	81	Galena	03/09 13:26:00	9				7h 3m	Ruby	03/09 06:23:00	7.38			Scratched
	Ryan Redington	51	Ruby	03/08 14:24:00	10				17h 19m	Cripple	03/07 21:05:00	6.47			Scratched
	John Stetson (r)	87	Cripple	03/07 20:40:00	14				15h 45m	Ophir	03/07 04:55:00	3.75			Scratched
	Rodney Whaley (r)	78	Cripple	03/09 16:00:00	13				27h 40m	Ophir	03/08 11:20:00	2.13			Scratched
	Jason Barron	41	McGrath	03/05 09:00:00	14				6h 58m	Nikolai	03/05 02:02:00	7.75			Scratched
	Jessica Hendricks	23	Nikolai	03/04 21:28:00	12				13h 2m	Rohn	03/04 08:26:00	5.75			Scratched
	Cliff Roberson	56	Rohn	03/04 15:49:00	15	03/05/2008 08:15:00	15	16h 26m	6h 40m	Rainy Pass	03/04 09:09:00	7.20			Scratched
	Kim Franklin (r)	79	Rohn	03/05 02:12:00	13				7h 8m	Rainy Pass	03/04 19:04:00	6.73			Withdrawn
	Joe Garnie	28	Rainy Pass	03/03 17:33:00	13					Finger Lake					Scratched
	Tom Roig (r)	94	Finger Lake	03/03 21:23:00	14				6h 48m	Skwentna	03/03 14:35:00	6.62			Scratched
	G.B. Jones	45	Campbell Airstrip	03/01 13:50:00					2h 14m	Anchorage	03/01 11:36:00	5.37			Scratched

Race Statistics provided by Iditarod Trail Committee, Inc. © 2008

Moderator note: 

This thread was moved to Sports & Work. If this thread is meant instead, to be about the ethics and Advocate for the dog's involved in mushing, please advise and I will move it instead, to Advocacy.

Some prove that maybe not all dogs get the proper attention at check points.....how can a vet successfully check on a dog's health when 10 dogs need to be checked and 7 minutes are spent at the check point?

3

Hans Gatt

38

Unalakleet

03/10 02:20:00

12

03/10/2008 02:27:00

12

0h 7m

15h 58m

Kaltag

03/09 10:22:00

5.64

Snownose you raise a very valid point.  Although I am very much into working dogs and dog sports I absolutey agree that  the dogs must be cared for to the max.   And if that race or another other race for that matter is too much and has become unreasonable, then they need to change it for the well being of the dogs.

Thanks for posting that.  It has certainly opened my eyes.

More bad news.....how sad......it appears another dog of that team was badly injured....here is a link to the site.....click on the pics and you can get profiles on the dogs involved.....

http://www.racingsiberians.com/Races/08Iditarod/iditarod08.html

IDITAROD XXXVI ADVISORY

by Mark Nordman, Race Marshall

snownose

how can a vet successfully check on a dog's health when 10 dogs need to be checked and 7 minutes are spent at the check point?

good point.

 I hope that the mushers are well tuned to their dogs and know which ones are "not right". I know that I know when one of my dogs is not well or is off his food. I can just tell something isn't right. I would hope that the mushers pay close attention to their dogs along the route and know which ones need the vet's attention.