spay/neuter bill in CA

Moderator request for ALL posting, 

The tone of this thread will stay civil...and not get personal. Discuss the issue and debate as you like...but it will not get snippy and it will not get personal.

Thanks all.

First, I breed MAYBE once a year. If that. My last litter was over a year ago. I had two puppies.
Second, they are leaving the licensing fees up to the city. If the city wants to charge 500 bucks PER intact pet, that is 2500 bucks per year, just to have them. I am a student. I dont have tons of money just laying around. The extra money that I do have goes to paying for OFA hips and elbow certifications, CERF and Heart certifications, show fees, prenatal and post natal care on mom and puppies, dewclaw removals (which i choose to do at the vet), shots, high quality food, and all the others things that I do to uphold to my standards of a responsible breeder. I do not make any money off selling my puppies, nor do I want to. I do not do it to make money, I do it for me, to create my next show dog and breeding prospect, and to please all the wonderful families that choose to purchase from a good breeder instead of adopt.
There are several other restrictions and silly requirements that if you actually read the bill closely, you will see. They are making us jump through loopholes and in the end, taking away our rights as an American. Once they pass this, who knows where they will stop.
In addition, I do rescue and actually did that before I got into breeding and showing. So I see both sides of the fence. The person who is sponsoring this bill has never owned a dog, or a pet as far as I know, so really, what place does he have to say if this bill will or will not work?

lcbryson

So I see both sides of the fence. The person who is sponsoring this bill has never owned a dog, or a pet as far as I know, so really, what place does he have to say if this bill will or will not work?

It will probably work as well as any other dog related law like leashing, barking, and confinement, and licensing. The responsible folks will do it...and the irresponsible ones will not...and the agency assigned to enforce it will "get to it when we can"...

Meanwhile the pet stores will be busy!

 

 

Exactly. And the irresponsible ones are the ones that are causing the bulk of the problem. If they did not turn their backs on the puppies they have sold, they would not be turned into shelters. I agree that SOMETHING needs to be done. But what they have planned now is not the way to go.

lcbryson

If the city wants to charge 500 bucks PER intact pet, that is 2500 bucks per year, just to have them.

I think that you maybe just speculating "500 bucks PER intact pet", can you provide us with a link to some official juristiction website that mentions that.

 

I am not saying that that number is what the city is saying, just stating that IF the city did not want breeders, they could make the charge some astronomical price that few could afford.

lcbryson

I am not saying that that number is what the city is saying, just stating that IF the city did not want breeders, they could make the charge some astronomical price that few could afford.

To me that appears to be speculation, and as there are mentions of exemptions and permits in bills and ordinances some may see this as some sort of regulation rather than a "city did not want breeders".  I hear that in Santa Cruz under "I am claiming an Exemption for my dog or cat and enclose documentation to support my claim", that an "Unaltered Animal Certificate" costs $15 per dog, and if one doesn't have any documentation to support their claim then it's one time fee of $100, maybe you could supply documentation for an exemption where it may cost you $15 per dog.

 

And that could be true, but it still doesn't even begin to look into the "I need to move" or common now in CA "my house in in foreclosure and can not take my pet" excuses that people have for giving up their dog. The overall picture is that this bill will not stop those people who surrender their dogs and it will not stop people from purchasing out of state or from the people smuggling dogs in from Mexico. It will not stop people from buying from breeders and it will not stop[ people from giving up dogs to shelter and will never stop euthansia rates.
And speaking of Santa Cruz, here is a graph showing intake/euthansia rates since enforcing their spay and neuter bill.

http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/pdf/mandatorylaws.pdf

Worth the read....

I notice that graph is on an opposition website, and I think that maybe you ought to contact the people who actually work in the shelters and ask them if their ordinances have reduced the killings in the shelters.

 

Living in CA, being a board member for my club, and KNOWING people who live in Santa Cruz and one who works in the shelter, the opposition's graph is closer to the truth than the other side.

Well I'm just advocating what a number of Breed Clubs certainly are advocating in regards to spay neutering of pets, breeders and those that show can easily obtain exemptions, and in regards to spay neutering of pets I posted a couple of links to Breed Clubs to what they mention on their websites, do you want post more from more Breed Clubs. Gees even the American Kennel Club mentions the following which is down the page via this link, please folks see for yourself:-
http://www.akc.org/public_education/healthy_dog.cfm
 
American Kennel Club
 
Spaying or Neutering Your Dog
 
Unless you know you are going to show your dog, it is best to have your female spayed or your male neutered. Spaying or neutering is a fail-safe method of birth control.
 
A spay operation removes the female dog's ovaries and uterus. A spayed female will not come into season two or three times a year, as unspayed females do. She will not attract male dogs from miles around, she will not discharge on rugs, sofas, or bedding, and she will not be prone to diseases such as pyometra (uterine infection) and mammary cancer.
 
A neutered male cannot breed successfully. His desire to roam in search of females will be reduced, and he may be less aggressive in defending his territory. Also, he will be less susceptible to prostate cancer.
 
Apart from these benefits, spaying or neutering will not change your dog's personality.
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Dont get me wrong, I am not against spaying and neutering pets... What I am against is mandatory spay and neuter and against doing it at 4 months.
And I too require all my pet puppies to be spayed or neutered. It is signed in a contract and will not even give AKC papers until I receive proof of the puppy being altered. Luckily, every single person I have sold a pet puppy to is looking to get their dog altered, but then again, I only sell to responsible homes.

When a pet owner signs a spay neuter contract with the breeder, by law I feel that is a mandatory requirement to spay neuter according to the contract, please advise me if otherwise.

From what I have seen over the years, breeders have had differences of opinions in regards to what is the best age to spay neuter for their particular breed. And irrigardless, some breeders do spay neuter pets at young ages before handing pups over, this makes absolutely sure that their pups later on will NOT be used for breeding by Puppy Mills or Backyard Breeders or even Designer Dog Breeders.

 

Yes and no, I require them to be done by 8 months for females and a year and a half for males. After much discussion with several vets, I feel that these ages are the best. My females do not, on an average, go into season until they are 10 months (sometimes even later) and I highly recommend spaying pets before their first season, but want them to mature a bit (reasons why males are not required until 1 1/2). In Beagles, it is not so much of an issue, but the larger breeders need to mautre past 4 months (often into a year) for their growth plates to close. If they are not able to they risk several health issues later on in life.
But as I said before, I only sell my pets to responsible owners who want to alter their pets anyway, so luckily (knock on wood) I have not had to enforce my contract in court.