Animal Hoarding

    • Gold Top Dog

    Gosh, maybe I'm a hoarder?  After all, who in their right mind (not that I've ever claimed to be) has SIX german shepherds?

    We really hard a hard time placing the first foster litter because the rescue was doing absolutely nothing to help.  Thunder just flat didn't find a home.  And by that point, I was being a bit less particular, but I wasn't about to let a home raised pup go live his life at the end of a chain in front of a banged together dog house.

    With the second litter, I fully intended to keep Mr. Ears.  He stole my heart from day one.  He didn't live past 5 months and I still had one pup left to place, also the runt, when Tyler came home.  I did intend to rehab Tyler and rehome him, but gosh, he'd been through so much and I fell so in love with the little bugger that he just stayed.

    I think that there is a fine line between believing that your home is best and knowing that some situations aren't acceptable.  Maybe MY logic that I'm not going to home raise a pup and then sentence him to a life chained to a dog house is hoarding behavior?  I don't know.  I do know that I'm not taking pups anymore.  And I will only take fosters for very short term because I just fall in love too quickly.

    Toss in the two cats,both rescues.....and the fact that I feed the darned chipmunk......

    • Gold Top Dog

    No, Glenda....you are not a hoarder....hoarders take in animals all the time....I have seen examples where a high number of animals was achieved in no time at all....that is what one has to look out for.......hoarders do NOT know when to stop.....they keep adding, in their minds they are doing it for the right reason, but have a problem with the concept of "Enough is enough".

    • Gold Top Dog

    snownose

     but have a problem with the concept of "Enough is enough".

    I have reached the "Enough is enough" many times and then work at dig myself out of the hole.  It seems to be part of the fabric of those involved in rescue efforts.  You never seem to 'get' the lesson learned.  The point I want to make has to do with mental illness comments here.  There was a comment on tv the other day that said the frontal lobe of the brain does not develop until you are in your twenties.  This is the area of the brain that controls reason and impulse control.  I would think that someone who starts rescuing at a very early age may carry these impulses forward in their adulthood and see nothing wrong with it.  Mental Illness....I don't know.

    • Gold Top Dog

    probe1957

    I don't know anything about mental disorders.  No comments from the peanut gallery on that one, please.  :)  I wonder though, do people with mental disorders generally recognize that they are whacko?  I used to work with a guy with OCD.  He did know he was a bit off.  Is that usually the case?

     

     

    Billy, I rarely give you a public newspaper on the snout, but I will this time - please take it in the spirit in which it is meant.  mrv's comments are pretty accurate re hoarders, but many individuals with mental illnesses are aware, do take medications on time and keep their medical appointments, and must continue to bear the sting of words like "whacko".  Mental illness is organic - meaning that there is a physical or chemical reason for it, just like cancer or diabetes, except that the disease is attacking the brain or nervous system.  Please stop using terminology that minimizes this down to something that incurs stigma.  If we don't all adopt an attitude that this is a medical problem, like any other, insurance coverage for it will continue to lack parity with other illnesses and some people will continue to receive substandard treatment.

    OK, off my soapbox now. 

    • Gold Top Dog

    DPU

    snownose

     but have a problem with the concept of "Enough is enough".

    I have reached the "Enough is enough" many times and then work at dig myself out of the hole.  It seems to be part of the fabric of those involved in rescue efforts.  You never seem to 'get' the lesson learned.  The point I want to make has to do with mental illness comments here.  There was a comment on tv the other day that said the frontal lobe of the brain does not develop until you are in your twenties.  This is the area of the brain that controls reason and impulse control.  I would think that someone who starts rescuing at a very early age may carry these impulses forward in their adulthood and see nothing wrong with it.  Mental Illness....I don't know.

     

     

    I think you are pretty off base with this comment.  I know many dedicated rescuers who started in their teens or twenties, and none have escalated into hoarding.  More often than not, isolation is a key factor, perhaps precipitated by some form of mental or even physical illness. 

    I think it is useful to point out that if you have not seen evidence that someone's animals are being neglected, this is a "slander", to use Janet's terminology, that should not be brought upon anyone.  Key point - many hoarders will not let you in to their homes.  Usually, the reason they are discovered is that a neighbor sees something, or a health care worker or ambulance driver reports on them.  You rarely see photos of their dogs or cats looking spiffy and well cared for either.  In fact, oddly, most hoarders don't take pictures of their pets.  The pets are not companions, they are possessions that no one else should be able to have and care for.  Another key word - possession (hoarders, even the ones who hoard newspapers, feel differently about "things" than the rest of us). 

    • Gold Top Dog

    spiritdogs

    [I think you are pretty off base with this comment.  I know many dedicated rescuers who started in their teens or twenties, and none have escalated into hoarding.  More often than not, isolation is a key factor, perhaps precipitated by some form of mental or even physical illness. 

    I think it is useful to point out that if you have not seen evidence that someone's animals are being neglected, this is a "slander", to use Janet's terminology, that should not be brought upon anyone. 

    I don't think this is off base at all.  Is it wrong to do a self examination as why one gets into "trouble" that maybe other would label as hoarding?  Could it stem from early development years?  Those involved in rescues are exposed to some pretty traumatic sights.  It is quite a tug-o-war on the emotions and I think you need a certain maturity to handle this.  But I agree with you that some involved in rescue are not exposed to the trauma so there would be no mental anguish to deal with.

    • Gold Top Dog

    My husband and I rescue animals.  With us, it has worked by word of mouth.  When someone we know sees an animal that needs help they call us. Of coarse the word has spread and people we don't know will call and ask for help now.  The only animals we have right now that were not rescued are our puppies, the mastiffs, Honey and Grizzlie.  I thought we were hoarders, don't laugh, I really did.  Right now we have the two dogs, three cats; Mouse-was rescued off of the side of the expressway, (that is a great story for another day) Blanca-was rescued from my sisters neighborhood and Boo Bear--saved from a little boy who was carrying him around in a plastic bag and smacking him with a stick(I thought my 11 year oold son was gonna beat the kid, but he just cried for the kitten).  We have a cockatiel that was left with the guys parents who in turn left him hanging out side all summer, when we got him he had no feathers from the neck down.  Lets see, an African Grey who's owner was depressed and the 'noise' she made drove him nuts so he started being mean to her.  She had a lot of socialization to get through when we got her.  We have an African Spur Thighed tortiose that the people who had him were keeping him in a bucket of water?  We have a red tailed boa that my husband rescued from a shed before animal control killed it. We have a nile monitor (one of the meanest monitors) my belief is that they can never be socialized.  A lady thought it would make a great pet for her 8 year old. (why don't people research before they get pets?)  Anyway, at any giving time we could have a dozen or more animals in our home ten of which are our 'pets'  they all see the vet regularly they all eat well but I spend several hours a day caring for them and it takes several hour aday!!!  how in the heck do people deal with have a couple dozen animals?  Am i a hoarder?  I know shelters don't apply but are we really a shelter?  We don't have a licence or anything.  And we do keep the ones we can't find good families for.....Oh no, are we hoarders???????

    • Gold Top Dog

    As I have mentioned before, there is a beginning and then there is an end......the beginning looks good to all, the person rescues and at that point there is no evidence of a problem, then it starts escalating and things spin out of control .......just like it with everything, substance abuse, physical abuse..........

    • Gold Top Dog

    Hoarding is not a matter of numbers, or I would tentatively say even solely a standard of care. It is an obsessive-compulsive disorder and a mental illness.

    OCD interestingly tends to run in families and I know anecdotally a lot of the hoarding cases (animal and object) I've seen in the news and such involve family members--a mother and daughter, two sisters or brothers, an entire family. The most famous compulsive hoarding case (not animals) in the US in the early 20th century was two brothers.

    It's definitely something I have a hard time wrapping my mind around. I can see myself, if it were not for the voice of reason my husband provides, getting over my head with charity cases, but actual hoarding of animals or objects is something that really perplexes me on a pretty basic level. A friend was telling me about a visit to her babydaddy's parents' house and she was telling me they seem to be moderate-level hoarders and her tales of that visit were just horrifying. It really does involve a spin on reality that is way off of the norm.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Wow, I almost missed this thread completely.  I don't stop by Advocacy all that often.

     



    I probably don't have much to add but I'll try.

    Hoarders are addicted.  Whether they're addicted to the animals themselves, or to the idea that they're saving/rescuing these animals I don't know.  You find the same mentality in other addictions-those that are addicted to shopping, to coupon clipping, to collecting old newspapers and such.  I'm pretty sure all of us have walked by that odd car or van in the parkinglot that is completely filled with trash except for the driver's seat area.  The exact same mentality, unfortunately the "collection" happens to be living, breathing, feeling animals.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    many individuals with mental illnesses are aware, do take medications on time and keep their medical appointments, and must continue to bear the sting of words like "whacko".  Mental illness is organic - meaning that there is a physical or chemical reason for it, just like cancer or diabetes, except that the disease is attacking the brain or nervous system. 

    I was going to say something too...but spiritdogs beat me to it and probly said it better than I would have. I know the comment wasn't directed in a "mean" way, but as someone with a mental disorder and learning disorder who takes my medication etc....it can "sting" a little. I'm not "off" or "whacko" - I just have a deficiency in certain chemical neurotransmitters and that other people don't have, and it manifests itself behaviorally, and can be exacerbated by environment and emotional state. Just an aside.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I think this is a very interesting topic.

     I'll add my two-cents, and because I happen to have a large number of animals, I will use myself as an example as to why judging people based solely on age, or number of animals is a very slippery slope. Smile

     I think everyone agrees that it isn't the number of animals that a person has, but the care those animals recieve. Someone may have a hundred animals and not be a hoarder, or someone may have ten animals and be considered a hoarder. These situations should all be judged individually, IMO.

    I currently have: 6 Dogs, 3 Barn cats, 2 Indoor cats, 7 Rats, a litter of foster baby rats, 2 Horses, 3 Goats, 15 or so Chickens, and 6 meat Rabbits. If we're going on numbers alone, I'm probably a pretty good candidate for being considered a hoarder. Wink

    Again, I'm going to set up a hypothetical situation using myself as an example to illustrate why making blanket statements about what constitutes hoarding, and the characteristics of hoarders, is a bad idea. Numbers, or the age of the individual, are not enough to go on.

    Let's start with some recognized characteristics of a hoarder.

    1. A hoarder is unable or unwilling to provide proper food, veterinary care, and housing for their animals.  

     All of my animals eat good quality food:

    Recieve veterinary care/medicine as needed:

    And are provided with clean, appropriate housing:

    So, even though I am young, and have a large number of animals, I think these pictures are evidence enough that I don't meet THAT criteria. Some of these pictures are as old as 3 years, and some are as recent as yesterday. So obviously, though I have a very large number of animals, I have been able and willing to provide for their basic needs for longer than I've even been on my own as an adult. Neat, huh?

    2. Hoarders often have animals that are unsocialized, unexercised, and either obese or underweight Often they do not have enough time to ensure that all of their animals recieve adequate exercise, training, and stimulation.

    Luckily, I am home all day, so I have plenty of time to make sure all of my animals get exercise, training, and play time.

    The rats get time to play outside of their cages and eat cookies:

    The horses are worked daily- Beck is ridden, and my colt does a little training and very, very light groundwork:

    And the dogs are walked:

    I also work hard to make sure my animals maintain a healthy weight- not too fat, and not too thin:

    3. Hoarders often have so many animals that they are unable to keep their living space sanitary. Urine and *** accumulate to the point where their homes are unliveable.

    Again, because I am home all day, I have the luxury of being able to clean on a daily basis. I think it's safe to say that I keep my house darn near spotless:

    4. Hoarding is the result of mental illness.

    Yes, I believe that hoarding is a result of mental illness. All hoarders have a mental illness, but not all people with mental illnesses are hoarders. For example, I have been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome, a mild form of autism. I have also been diagnosed with clinical depression, which runs in my family. The autism manifests itself in me by making me socially awkward. That's pretty much it. I'm not retarded, or incapable of caring for myself. I come from an upper middle class family, graduated high school with honors, and was given a full ride scholorship to the college of my choice. Autism is a spectrum disorder, and this is how it manifests itself in me:

    1. I had a hard time understanding idioms and sarcasm as a child.

    2. I have social anxiety.

    3. I am obsessive about certain topics. People with autism often latch onto one or two serious interests and become, basically, huge nerds on those subjects. For me, those subjects were animals and art.

    4. I was able to do college level work in most subjects as early as elementary school, but I have a mental block when it comes to even basic math. Being advanced in some subjects and deficient in others is common with autism.

    So, what does this mean for me? Basically, my level of autism means that I am a huge nerd. That's it. I'm socially awkward and nerdy. This is NO way negatively affects my ability to care for my animals.

    As for my depression? As long as I take my medicine I'm fine. If I don't take it, I tend to sleep alot. That's about as bad as it gets.

    So. My point here is that "mental illness" is a very broad term and to assume that because someone has some kind of mental disorder they are incapable of caring for their pets, is wrong. If we assumed that everyone who was depressed should not have animals, I think ALOT of people on this very forum would lose their pets. Depression is very, very common.

    5. Hoarders do not know their limits and will continuously take in animals even when their current pets do not recieve proper care.

     Yup. But it is very important to remember that everyone's limits are different. For some people, one dog is too much for them. Others could probably do well with thirty.

    Again, using myself as an example:

    Before I get any new animal, I sit down and do a budget. I evaluate my finances and figure out exactly how much basic care for that animal will cost on a monthly basis, as well as setting some aside for vet care. I then, if at all possible, try to go a month or two setting aside money and time for that animal, as if I already had it, to see if I can deal with the cost and commitment. If all of that checks out, I then get the animal.

    For me, my dog limit is 6. I can handle more financially, but I just plain don't WANT more than six. It would be too crowded, and too much work. Six dogs is a happy number for me. I have similar limits that I recognize for all of my pets. I think that as long as someone is realistic and aware of what their personal limit is, they are not in danger of becoming a hoarder. Hoarders, by definition, are in denial about their situation and are incapable of rationally considering what they can handle.

    I know this thread wasn't about me, but I thought it would be useful to have an example of someone who has alot of animals but DOES care for them all properly, to show the difference between someone who is a hoarder, and someone who has alot of pets. Wink

    Personally, I think it's important not to judge people if you don't have the entire picture. Just because you can't see yourself doing what they're doing, doesn't mean it's impossible. Everyone is different, and everyone is different in what they personally can handle.

     

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    Rats, you have a lovely home...I think it's very nice of you to post so many pics and give us a slice of your life as it were. If I had the space I would have many more hounds, a mini donkey, and a goat LOL. And as always your rats are adorable.

    Thank you for trusting us enough to share.

    I find this thread sort of interesting...and sort of disappointing. But that aside...I am glad so many folks took the time to put in with actual information, first hand experience, and facts...and keep this thread a useful one from an animal welfare standpoint. In spite of some of the less thoughtful comments it's been a good read.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I agree 100% that it's all about the care, not the number.  I know that I personally cannot care for more animals than I own simply because of my current living situation and time/money limitations, but I also know plenty of people who can handle extremely large amounts of animals just fine. 

    Near where I live there is a woman who at one point started taking in animals that had no where else to go.  She took in a LOT of them and gave every single one the care it needed, but she keeps them all - none are rehomed.  She takes in just about every animal in need that she comes across.  They all have names, appropriate sized cages, proper food, love and care, and just about everything else that makes a happy animal.  I know this woman has spent $10,000 on one horse alone to have it sent to Tufts for surgery.  She turned her house into a non-profit rescue organization and takes care of these animals full-time.  It's open to the public as a petting farm and you can go and wander around and interact with the animals, which I've done a couple times.  It's really incredible...there are almost 200 animals there, but they all get along just fine with no problems at all.  This woman is also an animal communicator, though she doesn't flaunt the fact probably for the same reason a lot of other genuine animal communicators don't.

     By the way, if anyone's in MA, I really recommend you visit this place...it's really wonderful and a fabulous place to bring children!
     http://www.winslowfarm.com/

    • Gold Top Dog

    Brittany, I hope you're not feeling like you need to defend yourself just because you have a lot of animals. I don't think that's what anyone was implying. Your house is pretty, and I particularly like your barn (which looks almost brand new, and I know what a pain they are to build and set up nicely, so good job).

    IMO, if someone is questioning whether or not they're a "hoarder," chances are they're not. And the fact that many hoarders claim to be "animal communicators" is simply correlation - obviously "animal communicators" are more likely than others to have pets. Obviously, people that have pets are more likely to be "hoarders."