What Should Be Done About Pit Bull Owners?

ORIGINAL: Dog_ma



If pitbulls were really such terrible threats, there would be so many more attacks than there are.  How big is the pitbull population?  How well are most of these dogs socialized?  By any count there is a huge number of unsocialized untrained pits out there.  The streets should be running with blood. 

Insurance companies, home owner associations and boarding kennels would disagree with you.  More and more of them are prohibiting Pit Bulls for clients and residents, and they claim that statistics are used to determine this.

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: Dog_ma



If pitbulls were really such terrible threats, there would be so many more attacks than there are. How big is the pitbull population? How well are most of these dogs socialized? By any count there is a huge number of unsocialized untrained pits out there. The streets should be running with blood.

Insurance companies, home owner associations and boarding kennels would disagree with you. More and more of them are prohibiting Pit Bulls for clients and residents, and they claim that statistics are used to determine this.

ha! And I believe their statistics just like I believe EVERY STORY that hits the media about pit bulls.
Honestly, Bob (and I agree with a lot of what you say most of the time), where do you think these insurance companies and different places get their statistics??
Probably the easiest source possible-THE MEDIA.


ooops, sorry, I guess I'm not done with this thread.

Personal opinion only......but perhaps we should all take a deep cleansing breath? 

I'm against BSL and any sort of thing just for "pit bull owners".  I do wish that ALL prospective owners would do more education before selecting a dog.  I work at a shelter and I'm sorry to say that most of our bully breeds are returned at least once before they find their forever home.  People bite off more than they can chew.  I am not biased against any dog breed just based on stupid stereotypes, but I do recognize that a pit bull will never be an appropriate breed for me and my family.  Around here though, adopting pit bulls has become some sort of fad.  Self-proclaimed animal lovers come into the shelter feeling sorry for pit bulls b/c of the bad rap.  Fair enough.  But these people have done NO objective research on the breed, adopt our Cane Corso, and then promptly dump it back two weeks later because it barked at the cat and growls at the neighbors' dogs.  People don't consider their environments, their lifestyles, how adopting a certain dog will affect their current pets, how it will determine their future pets, etc.  This is true of owners of ALL breeds, sadly, but lately it seems like the pits are being adopted by people who feel sorry for them, not by people who appreciate them for what they are and are seeking out that type of breed.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Personal opinion only......but perhaps we should all take a deep cleansing breath?

This is why I was going to stay out of this thread, Glenda. This is such a personal subject to me, it's like as if someone came on here and said "All parents of little boys with red hair should have to take special parenting courses because we think that red headed boys have worse tempers than most little boys and they're harder to handle. SO! Extra special parenting courses it is! That's going to solve all little red headed boy problems, because you know, IT'S A HUGE PROBLEM AND ALL."

It just hits home for me.
I dress my dog cute and put cute collars on her so that when I walk her, people don't cross the street or think she's going to maul them and they'll come pet her and see how wonderful she is with humans. I take extra steps that, let's say, pug owners don't have to take just so the public will see my dog for the sweetheart that she is. It gets exhausting sometimes to try and change everyone else's perception of pit bulls. ESPECIALLY other dog lovers. I could see going to a non-dog related board and people talking about placing specific laws on pit bulls because they are ignorant to dog behavior and dogs in general. But on a dog board? On a dog board????

Where's there time for my dog to be a dog??? People don't freak out and want to place laws on JRTs if they kill a cat or some other furry animal. Why do they freak out about pit bulls? If a pit bull was just being a dog and killed a cat, it'd make the front paper news.

ORIGINAL: wysperwolf

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

What do I as an actual pit bull (mix) owner think needs to be done????

Well, for starters, I think that ALL dog owners should take RESPONSIBILITY for their pets.
MY pit bull isn't running the streets attacking people or dogs. MY pit bull is on her leash or in my house getting love and returning love.
MY pit bull is currently in training and I realize my dog's areas that need work and am working on them WITH her.

I as a responsible pit bull owner already realize the scrutiny I'm under as an owner to make sure my dog represents her breed well. I don't need people like YOU (OP) to tell ME that there is a pit bull problem.

Tell the lady up the street from me with the off leash shih-tzu. Or the couple down the street with the off leash mini-schnauzer.
Or, better yet, tell the people kitty corner from us with the Springer Spaniel that always likes to escape its house and rush my ON LEASH PIT BULL.

or, better yet. Why don't you learn how to read/speak better dog and THEN come tell me there's a pit bull problem.

Very well said!
I, also as a partial Pit bull (mix) Owner ( my moms pitty, i watched her most of the time for a year while mom had to work lots of over time)
say its not a specific breed that needs help. Deff. not Pit bulls as a single. My Neighbors have a rottweiler and a Golden retriever that wandered arout MY yard.  This is when i was with my mother. Sassy Actually saved me. the Neighbors knew their golden retreiver was agressive and let her outside any how! She had three legs and was still a mean girl! She lunged at my side and ended up planting her teeth in my thigh, sassy, my 'killer pit bull', nicely snarled then ran up against the Golden ret. pushing her on her back. The golden ret. jumped up and ran back home. Our neighbors weren't sued as they promised to pay for the med. bills and promised to nicely give their dog to the AC if the dog was out again.
My oh so terrible killing machine of a pibble, nicely KNOCKED the golden on her side to get her away from me. No biting, no flesh ripping, no blood. nothing.
And you are here to tell me, amungst the many other pibble owners, that I need to Take sassy to obedience class and training?
She's very well behaved, walks nicely on the street, warns us if some ones trying to break in. Greets any one , dog or human, even cat, with a wiggling but and happy Pibble smile.
The PEOPLE Need to be educated. Not the pibbles.  They need a law that states if you are to get any dog of any breed, you need to uphold to loving and caring for that dog. to make sure you know its needs and wants, and make sure you can pay for what ever you'll need in the long run. Whether it be training, obedience, med. bills, what ever.
You as a DOG owner need to fulfill your responsibility and make sure you stop problems before they BEC OME problems.

Good grief!  The OP is not targeting you! 

nocturnal, i think i see where you are coming from.  i think you need to edit the title again, insert the word "irresponsible" before "pit bull owners".  That way it makes it clear you are not suggesting anything abt chewbacca or wysper.  Indeed, better measures like enforced leash laws, mandatory pet classes etc would not affect these folks because they are responsible enough to be doing them already anyway!

i do think that the ppl who have said it is not a pibble prblm only are correct.  i think the stricter measures for breeders and owners should apply, ideally to all dogs.  however, that would be a massive change to make and legislating it would (id imagine) be a nightmare.  perhaps one breed at a time is a possible answer? 

im sorry if i rpt anyone i havent fin'd reading replies....

edit for clarity:  when i say one breed at a time, this need not be PBs necessarily.  and if it was it would be because they make up a nice chunk of th population, not because of their breed traits.  and if it was put in place it wdnt affect chewbacca or other responsible owners, because the measures are those that such owners already have in place.  i hope that makes sense and no one is offended by my musings....
 
edit again: now that i think about it, its a bad idea to start w/ pits.  it would only confirm the general publics opinoin and make them feel vindicated in thier prejudice.... so maybe it wd be better to start w/ labs or retrievers....
 
another concern with and bsl is How is the breed defined?  Currently, its by looks alone, not pedigree or behaviour.... its "how much % pitbull X dog looks...."  Technically you could have yr doxie dragged away for being 73% pit.  Daft!!!!  By this token, chewbacca, it is not just you who is targeted... any dog owner is`at risk pretty much.  I rmbr a story in the paper not long ago about a family who had their MUTT dragged off by police because.... get this... thet had a large rope toy hanging from a tree in their bk gdn.  True.  Police said they thot they were traiing the dog to fight using this toy.  They didn't know the dogs ancestry and it was unlikely to have much, if any pit, in there because pits have  been illegal here fir a while.

I can see quite a cottage industry in "pit bull training classes" developing with either no quality control, or a huge expensive and likely ineffective bureaucracy arising to somehow license the instructors

 
the very same thing passed thru my mind just now.... i think you make some very gd points overall.

I absolutely hear you.....remember, my breed could well be next.  And yeah, I do the cutsie bandana's and stuff just to make them look "less threatening".....as if body language alone couldn't tell anyone that they are ok.......

When specifically targeting pit bull owners, she/he IS targeting me. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I can speak for myself.
Sorry if I get over-heated on this subject, but I think most who had their breed targeted would understand my reaction.

when one considers JUST how many pit bulls ar eout there... probably unregistered ones make up 20% of the TOTAL dog population in my area... if you count pit MIXES even more...
 
there are very few pit attacks!
 
when you consider the abuse these dogs endure that no other breed can even fathom...
 
there are very few pit attacks!
 
There is not a pit problem, there is an IDIOT problem...
 
Mandatory spay neuter might work... of the humans...

well, IS there a pit bull problem?   I think there is a biased media problem. They don't report attacks by cocker spaniels; they report attacks by pit bulls. They blatantly mis-identify practically any breed or mixed-breed as a pit bull. 
 

ORIGINAL: buster the show dog
... 1) they have a greater tendency to be aggressive toward other dogs than most breeds, and are more likely to inflict serious damage when they express that aggression, 2) pit bulls and pit mixes often make up the largest portion of shelter dog populations, with it not being unusual for them to exceed 50 % of the total in large urban areas.

Can you show me your sources that support these data?

Let's educate ourselves, shall we? [sm=happy.gif]

Pit bull attack stats may surprise you
...
In 37 years, 342 children were killed by dogs, an average of about nine children a year. Shockingly, approximately three children are killed each day, or 1,100 per year, by their parents. Delise notes that "A child in the United States is over 100 times more likely to be killed by his or her parent or caretaker than by a dog."

Source: [link>http://www.la-spca.org/dedication/talk/t_judge.htm]http://www.la-spca.org/dedication/talk/t_judge.htm

Now, I ask you... What's to be done about PARENTS?

And remember, there are several breeds that the public calls Pit Bulls.  Under the current hysteria, when a dog bites, if it's not a Collie or a Pomeranian, it gets reported as a "Pit Bull" and gets recorded that way. It's very likely that many vicious dogs reported as "Pit Bulls" are actually several other breeds.

Quite often dogs that attack are identified as pit bulls when they are not.  It seems that that any dog of medium build with short hair is thought to be a pit bull.  There are 20+ breeds that are commonly incorrectly identified as pit bulls.   The worst part of this identity problem is that the initial attack has frontpage coverage with PIT BULL all over it.  Then several day's later when they properly identify the dog as a mix breed or another breed that story is a line or two on page 30 buried.  

Source: [linkhttp://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/MistakenIdentity/WrongId.htm]http://www.understand-a-bull.com/BSL/MistakenIdentity/WrongId.htm[/link]

In fact... Take this test. Can you, a dog saavy person,
Spot the Pit Bull?  [linkhttp://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html]http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html[/link]
How accurately do you think the general public can indentify one?

Further:

[font="book antiqua"]The American Canine Temperament Testing Association, which sponsors tests for temperament titles for dogs, reported that 95% of all APBTs that take the test pass, compared with a 77% passing rate for all breeds on average. The APBT's passing rate was the fourth highest of all the breeds tested.[/font]

Source: [linkhttp://www.valleyofthesundogrescue.com/apbt_fact_page.htm]http://www.valleyofthesundogrescue.com/apbt_fact_page.htm[/link]

And to round out my position with a little bit of emotionalism...

They came first for the Pit Bulls,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't own a Pit Bull.

Then they came for the Rottweilers,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't own a Rottweiler.

Then they came for the Dobermans,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't own a Doberman.

Then they came for the Akitas,
and I didn't speak up because I didn't own an Akita.

Then they came for the German Shepherds,
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

ORIGINAL: mrs1885

I don't think they should do anything about pit bulls.  I think they should do something about pet owners.  That's the real problem.  And notice I said pet owners, not pit owners.  I think the question was very offensive to anyone that owns or likes that breed.  I happen to adore that breed.  I'd be very ticked off if that question was posed and rottweiler was in the place of pit bull.

Yes! Totally agree. It's not the pit bull, its about the dog owner. I know exactly
where you are coming from, I used to have a doberman and they are really lovely
breed! But people have the impression that they are killer dogs! That's the same
for Rotties and Pit bull, I noticed!

I always try to educate them that its not the dog but the owner! But they just like
the way they think but I'll keep doing what I can to educate people!

Pitty Bully all the way! Dobies and Rotties too!

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8

ORIGINAL: Dog_ma



If pitbulls were really such terrible threats, there would be so many more attacks than there are. How big is the pitbull population? How well are most of these dogs socialized? By any count there is a huge number of unsocialized untrained pits out there. The streets should be running with blood.

Insurance companies, home owner associations and boarding kennels would disagree with you. More and more of them are prohibiting Pit Bulls for clients and residents, and they claim that statistics are used to determine this.

ha! And I believe their statistics just like I believe EVERY STORY that hits the media about pit bulls.
Honestly, Bob (and I agree with a lot of what you say most of the time), where do you think these insurance companies and different places get their statistics??
Probably the easiest source possible-THE MEDIA.


ooops, sorry, I guess I'm not done with this thread.

Frankly. I doubt very much if major National insuance companies are going to base their business practices on what they read in the daily News. Obviously they have claims and mountains of statistics that they share with other insurance companies and calculate a risk factor and  deem it  unacceptable for that breed.  That is also a major reason why Pit Bulls are not very adoptable in shelters, because the shelter doesn't want to take the risk of  having someone injured by a dog they adopted out. 

ORIGINAL: FourIsCompany

ORIGINAL: buster the show dog
... 1) they have a greater tendency to be aggressive toward other dogs than most breeds, and are more likely to inflict serious damage when they express that aggression, 2) pit bulls and pit mixes often make up the largest portion of shelter dog populations, with it not being unusual for them to exceed 50 % of the total in large urban areas.

Can you show me your sources that support these data?

Let's educate ourselves, shall we? [sm=happy.gif]

I have volunteered  in 2 different shelters, and in fact I am leaving in a few minutes for the shelter where I currently volumteer to work with a Pit Mix that we have been training for over 2 months.  The difference in this dog today, from when we started, is amazing.  And yet, the down side, is that she will try an attack almost  any black  young child that walks near her in the shelter, and she is also very dog aggressive. Whenever we take her out of her kennel, we have to be constantly on guard, and I don't hold out alot of hope for anyone that will adopt her because of these aggressive tendencies. We have many Pits and Pit Mixes that are in the same condition, and if this wasn't a no-kill shelter, they probably would have been put down within  a few days of arriving. Are these scientifically compiled  "statistics", well not really, but when you talk to shelter workers and see the dogs that come in every day, the pattern becomes pretty obvious, and I doubt if it differs that much from shelter to shelter. If you doubt these "statistics", try volunteering at a shelter for a few months, and I think you will see that it is not quite what you think it is.