Spay-neuter law works in Santa Cruz

ORIGINAL: Xeph

I too wonder why so many are adamantly opposed when they can easily obtain exemptions and Intact Permits.

I love how people keep assuming that it's going to be easy to obtain an exemption.

 
Xeph, I see you keep assuming that it is NOT going to be easy to obtain an exemption. As an example how easy it is in your case - I see in your signature that your dog has obtained titles and where you would have been issued with title certificates for them. If this Bill does become law, then by State Law a local jurisdiction shall issue an intact permit if the owner provides sufficient proof, and as proof simply show your local juristiction your dog's title certificates.
You probably may reply with some things you previously mentioned in other threads ,and where I have noticed you are quite opposed to the Bill, and where you might even say things like "but the titles are with the Canadian Kennel Club", and gees many do know that the Canadian Kennel Club is a recognized registry or association and where it can easily be checked to see if it is this even by a local jurisdiction.
 
Folks read for yourself this part of the Bill and where Xeph's titled dog shall be issued with an Intact Permit where her dog shall be exempted from being spay neutered, and the following from this link address:-
[linkhttp://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1601-1650/ab_1634_bill_20070531_amended_asm_v94.html]http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/pub/07-08/bill/asm/ab_1601-1650/ab_1634_bill_20070531_amended_asm_v94.html[/link]
 
Article 3.  Permits
 
122336.2.  (a)  A local jurisdiction shall issue an intact permit, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 122336, if the owner provides sufficient proof, as determined by the local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency, that any of the following conditions are met:
 
  (2)  The owner's cat or dog is a valid breed that is recognized by an approved registry or association, and complies with at least one of the following:
       (A) His or her cat or dog is used to show or compete and has competed in at least one legitimate show or sporting competition hosted by, or under the approval of, a recognized registry or association within the last two years, or by whatever proof is requested by the local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency that the cat or dog is being trained to show or compete and is too young to have yet competed.
       (B) The cat or dog has earned, or if under three years old, is in the process of earning, a conformation, obedience, agility, carting, herding, protection, rally, sporting, working, or other title from an approved purebred registry or association.
 

Article 3. Permits

122336.2. (a) A local jurisdiction shall issue an intact permit, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 122336, if the owner provides sufficient proof, as determined by the local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency, that any of the following conditions are met:

(2) The owner's cat or dog is a valid breed that is recognized by an approved registry or association, and complies with at least one of the following:
(A) His or her cat or dog is used to show or compete and has competed in at least one legitimate show or sporting competition hosted by, or under the approval of, a recognized registry or association within the last two years, or by whatever proof is requested by the local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency that the cat or dog is being trained to show or compete and is too young to have yet competed.
(B) The cat or dog has earned, or if under three years old, is in the process of earning, a conformation, obedience, agility, carting, herding, protection, rally, sporting, working, or other title from an approved purebred registry or association.

 
 
See this is the problem.  I have a 4 month old pup that I want to compete in agility with.  You can't start competing until you are at least a year and a half old.  You really shouldn't start training agility at that 4 months of age so I am doing puppy training.  Nowhere in the law states that the local authority as to accept my home training of the pup as proof of training.  In fact it is left entirely to the descretion of the local authority as to what is acceptable if anything is.  So if a local jurisdiction doesn't want to allow any type of training to be acceptable proof they don't have to.
 
This is just one example of problems that exist in the bill.  It is too open ended to the local authority doing whatever that want.  There are no guarantees.
 
 

by State Law a local jurisdiction shall issue an intact permit if the owner provides sufficient proof

 
And who gets to decide what is sufficient?

ORIGINAL: timsdat

Article 3. Permits

122336.2. (a) A local jurisdiction shall issue an intact permit, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 122336, if the owner provides sufficient proof, as determined by the local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency, that any of the following conditions are met:

(2) The owner's cat or dog is a valid breed that is recognized by an approved registry or association, and complies with at least one of the following:
(A) His or her cat or dog is used to show or compete and has competed in at least one legitimate show or sporting competition hosted by, or under the approval of, a recognized registry or association within the last two years, or by whatever proof is requested by the local jurisdiction or its authorized local animal control agency that the cat or dog is being trained to show or compete and is too young to have yet competed.
(B) The cat or dog has earned, or if under three years old, is in the process of earning, a conformation, obedience, agility, carting, herding, protection, rally, sporting, working, or other title from an approved purebred registry or association.

See this is the problem.  I have a 4 month old pup that I want to compete in agility with.  You can't start competing until you are at least a year and a half old.  You really shouldn't start training agility at that 4 months of age so I am doing puppy training.  Nowhere in the law states that the local authority as to accept my home training of the pup as proof of training.  In fact it is left entirely to the descretion of the local authority as to what is acceptable if anything is.  So if a local jurisdiction doesn't want to allow any type of training to be acceptable proof they don't have to.

This is just one example of problems that exist in the bill.  It is too open ended to the local authority doing whatever that want.  There are no guarantees.
 

 
I know heaps of people who do Agility, and at 4 months of age many have already started training, this by starting socialization puppy training with some basic obedience, and where a Local Training Clubs or even Breed Clubs could easily provide some proof to a Local Jurisdiction that a dog is indeed "being trained to show or compete and is too young to have yet competed" and also "or if under three years old, is in the process of earning", yep it's in the Bill where Intact Permits will be issued.
 
I find it rather interesting that all those who oppose the Bill seem to think that Local Jurisdictions are specifically out to deny them things, or are out to get them or whatever, maybe that is why they are so opposed to the Bill.
 

ORIGINAL: Xeph

by State Law a local jurisdiction shall issue an intact permit if the owner provides sufficient proof

 
And who gets to decide what is sufficient?

What makes you think that your dog's title certificates will not be sufficient proof.
 
By the way, I find it rather interesting that the AKC welcomes spayed and neutered dogs to participate in all phases of obedience, tracking, herding, lure coursing, earthdog, agility, Canine Good Citizen testing and junior showmanship, as well as most field work, and where sexually entire dogs tends to be a "breeder and conformation showing thing".
This is interesting and from the AKC website at this address:-
[linkhttp://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_breeding/Articles/shouldi_breed.cfm]http://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_breeding/Articles/shouldi_breed.cfm[/link]
 
Spay/Neuter: As a responsible owner, you may consider spaying or neutering your dog
 
What exactly is spaying and neutering?
 
Spaying is the surgical removal of a female dog's uterus and ovaries. Neutering refers to the surgical removal of the male's testicles and spermatic cords.
 
Many breeders offer puppies for sale with the stipulation that the dogs be neutered or spayed when they reach the appropriate age. This is one way for breeders to ensure breed improvement by only allowing dogs they determine to be of breeding quality to reproduce.
 
If you decide that breeding is not for you or your dog, please consider having your dog spayed or neutered to prevent accidental breedings that result in unwanted litters. Here are some other considerations:
 
# Spaying a female or neutering a male is not dangerous and does not change a dog's temperament or cause weight gain.
 
# Spayed females are often healthier and live longer than unspayed females.
 
# Neutered males cannot develop testicular cancer and have a lower risk of developing prostate cancer.
 
# The AKC welcomes spayed and neutered dogs to participate in all phases of obedience, tracking, herding, lure coursing, earthdog, agility, Canine Good Citizen testing and junior showmanship, as well as most field work.
 
 

ORIGINAL: Xeph

I too wonder why so many are adamantly opposed when they can easily obtain exemptions and Intact Permits.

I love how people keep assumingthat it's going to be easy to obtain an exemption.

And I am amazed at all the people that keep assuming that is is going  be so difficult to get an excemption  that the bill should be scrapped even though it will save thousands and thousands of dogs from having to be executed. 

And I am amazed at all the people that keep assuming that is is going be so difficult to get an excemption that the bill should be scrapped even though it will save thousands and thousands of dogs from having to be executed.

 
I find it just as amazing that people assume that it will be easy to get the excemption!!!!
 

I find it rather interesting that the AKC welcomes spayed and neutered dogs

Nowhere do you see the AKC advocating that 4 months old is a good time to spay or castrate their dogs!!
 
Also they state
 
As a responsible owner, you may consider spaying or neutering your dog

Many breeders offer puppies for sale with the stipulation that the dogs be neutered or spayed when they reach the appropriate age.
 
If you decide that breeding is not for you or your dog,
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: timsdat

I find it rather interesting that the AKC welcomes spayed and neutered dogs

Nowhere do you see the AKC advocating that 4 months old is a good time to spay or castrate their dogs!!

Also they state

As a responsible owner, you may consider spaying or neutering your dog

Many breeders offer puppies for sale with the stipulation that the dogs be neutered or spayed when they reach the appropriate age.

If you decide that breeding is not for you or your dog,

 
As to an appropriate age, well there are provisions in the Bill where spay neutering can be delayed or even avoided by obtaining Intact Permits.
 
As to your may consider and you decide, well I found it interesting where Breed Clubs advocate spay neutering of "pet/companions", and where their breeders mandatory impose spay neutering on pet owners who have their pets. Take for example the following and which is in the Breed Club's Code of Ethics and in the Sales part, and from this link address:-
[linkhttp://clubs.akc.org/gpca/gcode.html]http://clubs.akc.org/gpca/gcode.html[/link] 7. Any animal sold under the designation "pet/companion" shall be sold without full registration papers and on a mandatory spay/neuter contract. A breeder may supply full registration papers upon proof of sterilization or upon the breeders reassessment of the animal as being of "show/breeding" quality. 

7. Any animal sold under the designation "pet/companion" shall be sold without full registration papers and on a mandatory spay/neuter contract. A breeder may supply full registration papers upon proof of sterilization or upon the breeders reassessment of the animal as being of "show/breeding" quality.

 
Do you see 4 months listed there.  Notice that it also says reassessment.  They sure don't do that at 4 months.  You can't tell at that age if a dog will be breeding quality.
 

Here is an interest article about the conditions in the San Diego shelter.

San Diego County Statistics,
Fiscal Year 2003-2004
[align=left]

San Diego County consists of the city of San Diego, eighteen incorporated cities and seventeen unincorporated cities. About half of the estimated three million population live in the city of San Diego. In 2003-2004, San Diego County was just fifteen animals short of saving all of its healthy, adoptable animals.


In 1998, San Diego County Supervisor Pam Slater-Price proposed the adoption of a "no kill" policy as a goal for the county's animal services. Her call to action helped open the dialogue among animal welfare organizations and raise public awareness about the plight of homeless animals.

In 2001, animal agencies throughout San Diego County came together as part of a No More Homeless Pets coalition to save more lives, establish common definitions and share statistics. The collaboration included:

• four animal control organizations, including the San Diego Department of Animal Services
  
• four private traditional humane societies, including the San Diego Humane Society
  
• the Helen Woodward Animal Center
  
• a spay/neuter advocacy group, a feral cat coalition and an animal services volunteer auxiliary

As coalition members compiled their statistics, it became clear that county shelters were getting close to saving all of the healthy shelter animals. In fact, by fiscal year 2003-2004, the county was just 15 animals short of reaching that goal. Here are the cumulative county-wide numbers:[align=center]
Fiscal Year 2003-2004





Live Intake 52,287
Adoptions 24,800
Transfers 1,433
Reclaimed 7,739
Euthanized 17,421*[align=center]Euth Breakdown[align=center]Healthy 15
Treatable 3399
Non-Rehab 8089
Owner Requested 4873
Other Disposition 1045[align=center]
Now is that propaganda put out by the folks against manditory S/N.  You tell me. [align=center]Btw, The agency is currently a Maddies Fund recipient [align=center] 

Euthanized 17,421*
Euth Breakdown
Healthy 15
Treatable 3399
Non-Rehab 8089
Owner Requested 4873
Other Disposition 1045

 
I guess there's a positive message in this, but not positive enough for me.  That's still 17,421 animals that were euthanized.  Why?  Is that few enough?  Is that unpreventable?  I don't think so.  Still, I'm always pleased to hear that folks are working towards a positive goal, I just don't think they're there yet. 

I guess there's a positive message in this, but not positive enough for me.

 
And almost 13,000 of the 17,000 couldn't be rehabbed or the owner requested.  So for a city with size of SD 4,000 left isn't all that bad.  I'm sorry but a goal of zero euth is just not obtainable.  Lets be realistic.
 

And almost 13,000 of the 17,000 couldn't be rehabbed or the owner requested.

 
I know that it's not realistic to expect that every single animal is going to be adopted or adoptable, but I think there are probably many that could be rehabbed if given the chance.  I know that is totally unrealistic given the high numbers in the shelters though.  It's a challenge enough just to give them a walk every day, so expecting that someone would work with them long enough to truly ascertain what training or behavior modifications they need, isn't feasible.  As for the owner requests, that's even more troubling.  Is that the person who realizes there's a lot more work to having a dog than they thought?  If so, wouldn't it be nice to think that those folks wouldn't be able to just walk up to front of the grocery store, hand over $25 and walk away with a puppy?  My coworker called me last Friday to say he's getting a puppy.  A friend's dog had an accidental pregnancy from the dog down the street (they think) and he couldn't resist.  He'll be a good owner, but the 1st thing I thought of was how easy these things can happen and what are the odds that some of the other folks that are given one of these pups for free will know what they're getting in to? 

ORIGINAL: timsdat
I'm sorry but a goal of zero euth is just not obtainable.  Lets be realistic.

 
It's quite understandable that a goal of zero euthanasia is just not obtainable, an example such as a shelter may receive so many injured or sick frail old pets where it would be humane to euthanize them to end their suffering, and these would be included in the shelter's euthanasia statistics.