The Pit Bull Ban: Yay or Nay

Thousands of lives would be lost (canine) and ruined (human) were pit bulls to be banned.

But here is the difference.
Pit bulls killed: dogs die, as a result less fatal attacks by pit bulls on humans and other dogs
 
Pit bulls killing humans/other dogs: People and other dogs continue to be mauled and killed by pit bulls, so someone somewhere can have the privilege of owning the breed they want.

Where have you learned that pit bulls are vicious human killing machines?

But here is the difference.
Pit bulls killed: dogs die, as a result less fatal attacks by pit bulls on humans and other dogs


Pit bulls killing humans/other dogs: People and other dogs continue to be mauled and killed by pit bulls, so someone somewhere can have the privilege of owning the breed they want

 
 
Pit bulls killed: dogs die, as a result idiots move on to another breed to try and ruin and dog attacks don't change. Never mind the fact that pit bulls do not cause the majority of fatal attacks in the first place.
 
Pit bulls killing humans/other dogs: doesn't really happen as much as the media would like you to believe in the first place.
 
There, fixed that for you. []

Here's an absolute fact.  If some yahoo comes on my property to try to take the aforementioned CGC, therapy dog, german shepherds, they'll find themselves run off at the end of a shotgun.  And then I'll pack my bags and get the heck out of Dodge for a state that isn't so freaking narrow minded.

IrishSetterGrl, I enjoy debate more than the average bear--so let's debate.
 
What is your response to the idea that in order to own a dog over a certain size/weight one would need to pass a test or take a class?
 
As for your breed being targeted for temperament, I didn't suggest that but I did suggest it could be targeted because of its size....you commented that your breed doesn't have the killing power of a pb, how much killing power does a 70 pound dog that's 27 inches high at the shoulder need? LOL A joyful Irish Setter bounce could KILL an elderly person--never mind what would happen if the bounce was followed by a good bite.  And if one ever chased me I would be a goner. You realize that a fatal bite doesn't mean someone is ripped limb from limb, it could mean a single bite on a vulnerable area.
 
Bottom line: dogs come with fangs and claws and they don't speak English which means any dog bigger than my bread box could kill a human being and we could never be sure why.
 
As for your suggestion that after people have had their pbs seized, the ones with criminal records would face scrunity before owning another dog---why wait? Why not make it illegal for certain types of criminals to own dogs, period? Hmmmm?
 
Why not totally ramp up the laws for dog owners? Create extreme penalties for dog fighting, dog bites, etc.
 
People who breed/own fighting dogs would be spayed/neutered and....whoops, wrong thread.[] Okay, people who use their dogs to fight cannot own any animals ever again and are subject to random home inspections for a term of 50 years following their release from prison as a condition of their release. Plus, they are fined a huge amount to pay for the home inspections.
 
I know I've slammed statistics, but others seem to like them--so I'll toss this one out for your reaction.
 
Depending on the source, 28-30% of fatal dog bites were by unrestrained dogs off their owner's property. Another 58-60% were unrestrained dogs on their owner's property. What do you make of that?
 
If it turned out that 99% of pb fatalities happened when a dog was unrestrained in their own yard, would that change your view of the situation? That number (99--not the others) is made up, but I really want to know. Would that change your mind knowing that a pb wouldn't kill or hurt anyone unless they walked into the pb's yard?
 
What would be your threshold?

Now if someone told me that 99% of fatal bites by dogs were by loose dogs off their own property, then I would suggest draconian punishments for the owners of loose dogs. Public humilation, flogging, fines and forehead tattoos for repeat offenders would be up for discussion.[]
 
People whose dogs of any breed bite anyone would be subject to arrest and imprisonment with exceptions granted for protection of property and the right of an animal to defend itself from a nutcase who hits it with a stick...Owners of dogs that bite would also have some of their assets seized.
 
BTW Loose dogs=big fines WORKS. I posted a news story about someone being taken to the court by our ACO because her dog got into a neighbor's yard 3 times. She was fined $150. Yes, $50 for each time. You know we don't have loose dogs in our town. I know of only one intact dog (he's being shown) and the vast majority in town are altered and the closest shelter imports dogs from other areas.
 
For the record and to respond to one of the other postings here: I am not in denial, I do not own a pb---I own a German Shorthaired Pointer (67 pounds[]). I am unconvinced BSL aimed at b's will work and that the intended benefits justify the taking of a citizen's property and rights. Plus, I have questions about the unintended consequences of BSL.
 

ORIGINAL: Ratsicles

I....don't think I have ever been so at a loss for words.

You...keep saying...that you're not here to offend anyone....and yet...you're saying, in the next breath...that our own family pets should be drug away and killed because they are killers? I....ow. Ow.
 
Sigh. You know, this is just me, but I don't think theres any point in even continuing this discussion. It's one thing not to know something and be willing to learn. Willful ignorance is another.

If I ever meet you dragging your big doofy dog down the street, don't worry about my vicious pit bull and akita mauling your dog. We'll be running, far, far FAR away the second we see you coming.

 
Does anyone think making personal attacks help your case? Must you attack another person because you are upset? Really, it does not benefit anyone to do that -it is wasted anger. I don't think I am ignorant. I have read what has been presented, and despite the facts that are shown, pit bulls are responsible for the majority of fatal attacks, bottom line = dangerous to society.
 
BTW ~ yeah, my dog is pretty big and she's a bit doofy. Irish Setters are silly. []

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl

the breed is what it is and no amount of "pitbulllove.com" sites can change that.

It "is what it is"? You don't have a clue what the breed is. The breed *is* pitbulllove. There are a lot more good pits than there are bad. Please educate yourself before stating falsities as though they are facts.

Look at it this way, and these are statistics YOU posted:

Pit bulls were responsible for approximately 79 fatal attacks over 20 years. 4 attacks a year.

There are approximately 2,750,000 - 5,760,000 pit bulls in the US. 4 of those 2,750,000 - 5,760,000 pits fatally attack per year.

If the breed were inherently *bad*, don't you think the number of fatal attacks would be higher? Don't you think it's possible, in fact probable, that something or someone happened to those particular dogs? Out of 3 million people there are bound to be some that are genetically wired wrong, abused physically or mentally, or otherwise suffer circumstances that turn them into murderers or criminals, who's to say the same couldn't happen to a small number of dogs..[

I have read what has been presented, and despite the facts that are shown, pit bulls are responsible for the majority of fatal attacks, bottom line = dangerous to society.

For the love of god, read that statement again:  and despite the facts that are shown, pit bulls are responsible for the majority of fatal attacks, bottom line.
 

Wh....what? Despite the FACTS, pit bulls are responsible for the majority of attacks? If the FACTS state otherwise, how can what you're syaing be true?? Do you....geez, do you know what the definition of a "fact" is??


Sigh. I don't see how any of our attacks were any more personal than yours- saying that our dogs should be killed for your piece of *Content Removed* mind.  

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl

ORIGINAL: Ratsicles

I....don't think I have ever been so at a loss for words.

You...keep saying...that you're not here to offend anyone....and yet...you're saying, in the next breath...that our own family pets should be drug away and killed because they are killers? I....ow. Ow.

Sigh. You know, this is just me, but I don't think theres any point in even continuing this discussion. It's one thing not to know something and be willing to learn. Willful ignorance is another.

If I ever meet you dragging your big doofy dog down the street, don't worry about my vicious pit bull and akita mauling your dog. We'll be running, far, far FAR away the second we see you coming.

Does anyone think making personal attacks help your case? Must you attack another person because you are upset? Really, it does not benefit anyone to do that -it is wasted anger. I don't think I am ignorant. I have read what has been presented, and despite the facts that are shown, pit bulls are responsible for the majority of fatal attacks, bottom line = dangerous to society.

BTW ~ yeah, my dog is pretty big and she's a bit doofy. Irish Setters are silly. []

Wow. It scares me that you come here as a supposed dog lover, and you think pit bulls are dangerous to society.
Wow.

And, honestly, you are making personal attacks to us pit bull owners by stating that you think it fits to have our dogs wiped off the face of the earth.

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl

Ok...it seems to me that everyone is missing the big picture,

Sort of seems to me like you're missing the point.  Honestly, I KNOW there are pit bull attacks.  There's no denying it, I'd be an idiot if I tried to.  Are there more pit bull attacks than any other breed?  Now that one is up for questioning.  According to you, the majority of dog bites are from pit bulls.  Which is funny, because I seem to have remembered reading elsewhere that it was, as Glenda said, Labs.  By looking at the media, well of course it's going to look like no dog bites but a pit.  If a Lab bites someone is that going to make news?  Happens all the time.  The local newspaper certainly wasn't interested when my Golden mix bit me and that was a pretty nasty bite.  The media is famous for jumping on bandwagons and skewing facts.

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl

The biggest factor is not whether pit bulls were originally bred to be human aggressive or not, it's where they are now. Now, a lot of them are. Is it because of breeding? Ownership? Abandonment? Or just the way Pits are? I don't know in every single case.

Actually, it seems you don't really care.  There's a HUGE difference between aggression that is inherited (and therefore inevitable) and aggression that is is purposefully developed in a dog.  You don't seem to think that there is a difference or that it matters because you wave it off so easily, when in reality, it's really the whole point of the problem.  If pit bulls were all inevitably people-eaters then I don't think there would be a place for them in today's world.  The problem is, they're not.  We've told you that their original purpose was not to attack humans, but other animals.  You shrugged that off saying that their dog aggression has transformed to people aggression.  We've told you that they are two completely separate behaviors.  You seem to have ignored that one.  Now here is the main point:  It's not a dog problem, it's a people problem.  Dogs aren't out to get people, people are out to get people.  These people are the same as the guys walking around with knives, except instead of knives they have poor dogs that they've trained to do the job instead.  Does that mean we should ban knives from all existence?  Good luck eating dinner then.

And yes, this is pretty much exactly the same thing as racism.  "Racism is a view on a particular race formed by speculation and judgment which lack evidence and facts to prove truth in one's case. There is plenty of evidence to prove the aggression of pit bulls, their great capability to kill, etc., so no, it's not racism."  I have not seen one tiny tidbit of RELIABLE evidence that has told me that pitbulls are inherently people-eaters.  BSL is racism.  Are Native Americans savages like people thought they were in the old days?  Of course they aren't.  They had very respectable and advanced societies, but because Europeans were all too often at the brunt of their violence (because Europeans were, after all, rudely trying to push them out of their homes) they saw them as savage and cruel.  It's exactly the same thing as BSL.  Because the media has been hyping up pit bull attacks to no end that's all Johnny Q. Public sees of them...can we expect them not to?  That is where education comes in.  People need to be educated about the reality of the pit bull problem and realize that it's not the dogs' fault.

Come to think of it, the media didn't give a rodents rear end when DH had to be treated in the ER for a serious bite from our (gasp) cocker spaniel either.
 
Folks, my suggestion would be to stop peeing into the wind and just give up on this thread.  You can't change a mind that has slammed shut, and rusted there.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

Come to think of it, the media didn't give a rodents rear end when DH had to be treated in the ER for a serious bite from our (gasp) cocker spaniel either.

 
Now that you mention it, the wirehaired dachshund that did a number on me as a child got off scott free. [:@] Man that was a nasty bite too...
 
 
 
 
 

Ok, I have been polite as long as I can. You have villified my breed to the nth power. You have spouted THEORIES and OPINIONS without FACTS to back any of it up.

You choose to own an Irish setter which is, IMO, on of the most feather-headed dogs on the planet. You are happy to own a beast which is best suited to taking up room on th eliving room couch and nothing more.  Ask this dog to do anything more in the show ring than conformation, and the breed AS A WHOLE fails miserably.  Since this dog is useful for nothing, why should it continue to exist? It adds nothing to society.  I have NEVER, EVER seen an Irish as a therapy dog, a service dog, a Search and Rescue dog or anything else BUT making its owner happy. Sooo, should this breed be allowed to continue its existance since it's not contributing anything useful? Perhaps not.

Breedism raises its ugly head again.  Open your mind to the fact that these dogs, like ALL dogs can be dangerous (yes, even your beloved Irish serters can and WILL bite) but, by the same token, the ALL can be wonderful additions to a loving family.

ORIGINAL: IrishSetterGrl

. Therefore, if pit bulls were prohibited, fatal attacks would decrease and more lives, human and canine, would be saved.

no actually the only thing that would happen is another breed would become the target. 

I suggest that you go to a dog event and hang around the terrier ring when the staff and other bull breeds are showing.  You will see it is not the breed, it is the specific animals in the hands of clueless owners.

I hate this stupid quote function,,,any tutorials somewhere?

I do remember talking to my ER doctor (while he was stitching up my dog-bit face) about dog bites and he pointed to one on his face from his own cocker spaniel.  My dad got bit by a poodle as a kid.  My friend was bit by her lab.  My cousin was attacked by a Dobe. Other cousin was bit by a GSD.  Heck, I don't even know anyone who's been bit by a pit bull.

But Glenda, you're right...I'm backing out of this thread.