The Pit Bull Ban: Yay or Nay

More Videos!

[linkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=cJueekvhRDI]The Great American Pit Bull Terrier[/link]

[linkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=gMprizsYnXc]You're My Best Friend[/link]

[linkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=mGairk18L8g]Punish the Deed, or the Breed? Positive Pit Bull Press[/link]

[linkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzlUaEYwWCg]Pit Bulls - Keep Holding On[/link]

[linkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxWm9oaU9DI]BSL - American Pit Bull Terrier[/link]

I could go on and on. If you see one, though, it must be "The Pit Bull Problem posted by Monday Blues.

ORIGINAL: Ratsicles

I am absolutely amazed that despite the posts made by owners of bully breeds in this thread, you would still advocate their dogs being taken away and KILLED for what they are.

Ontario has had a Pit ban since 2005 and NO ONES DOGS WERE TAKEN AWAY AND "KILLED"! The ban requires that the dogs be spayed/neutered and leashed and muzzled in public. The worst thing that resulted from the ban was that hundreds of dogs were immediately surrendered to shelters suggesting that many owners were not really as commited to their dogs at all.

What amazes me is that instead of looking for solutions or alternatives to laws banning the breed people continue to sensationalize. Statements like swimming pools and cars cause more deaths to me is a ridiculous agrument and will not win any points in stopping Pit bans. So many anti-ban arguments made in this thread only serve to reinforce the notion that Pit owners are simply in denial. For the record I do not support Pit bans but I do find many of the arguments put forward flawed. JMHO

ORIGINAL: denise m

ORIGINAL: Ratsicles

I am absolutely amazed that despite the posts made by owners of bully breeds in this thread, you would still advocate their dogs being taken away and KILLED for what they are.

Ontario has had a Pit ban since 2005 and NO ONES DOGS WERE TAKEN AWAY AND "KILLED"! The ban requires that the dogs be spayed/neutered and leashed and muzzled in public. The worst thing that resulted from the ban was that hundreds of dogs were immediately surrendered to shelters suggesting that many owners were not really as commited to their dogs at all.

What amazes me is that instead of looking for solutions or alternatives to laws banning the breed people continue to sensationalize. Statements like swimming pools and cars cause more deaths to me is a ridiculous agrument and will not win any points in stopping Pit bans. So many anti-ban arguments made in this thread only serve to reinforce the notion that Pit owners are simply in denial. For the record I do not support Pit bans but I do find many of the arguments put forward flawed. JMHO

Not every community that inacts a ban grandfathers dogs in.  The are many that give you a certain amount of time to give the dog away, move, or give the dog up--end of story.  It is often very hard to find homes for pits bulls, and it is also often very hard to sell ones house and pick up and move in the 30-60 days some of these bans give.  That is not sensationalizing, that is simple fact.  I actually believe that in some parts of England they ARE taking dogs away from their owners and if they are considered pits they are euthed.

The stats about swimming pools etc are offered to give perspective.   The media has done a fine job of convincing an uninformed public that every pit bull in every community is attacking at random, which simply is not happening.  

As for the stats about labs biting, the AC and city officals in a nearby community actually used that argument to explain to a citizen why they would NOT be seeking a ban, so I fail to see  how that is pointless to bring up.

I also fail to see how arguing that owners ultimately be responsible for their dogs actions is "sensationalizing."  That, IMHO, is just good old fashioned common sense.  The dangorous dog laws that actually have some balls behind them, like Indianapolis's dangorous dog law, tend to make owners more responsible for their dogs.

In addition, a number of the "flawed" arguments offered here are also offered by the AKC:

Points to Address:

• Breed-specific laws are not the best way to protect communities. An owner intent on using his or her dogs for malicious purposes will simply be able to switch to another type of dog and continue to jeopardize public safety. The list of regulated breeds or types could grow every year without ever addressing responsible dog ownership. Deeds, not breeds, should be addressed.
  
• Breed-specific laws are hard to enforce. Breed identification requires expert knowledge of the individual breeds, placing great burden on local officials.
  
• Breed-specific laws are unfair to responsible owners.
  
• Breed-specific laws increase costs for the community. Shelter costs for the community could rise as citizens abandon targeted breeds and adoptable dogs of the targeted breeds could be euthanized at the shelter.
  
• Some communities have had their breed-specific laws overturned on constitutional grounds. Because proper identification of what dogs would be included is difficult or impossible, the law may be deemed unconstitutionally vague.
  
• Strongly enforced animal control laws (such as leash laws), generic guidelines on dealing with dangerous dogs and increased public education efforts to promote responsible dog ownership are all better ways to protect communities from dangerous animals.
  
• Breed-specific legislation is opposed by the AKC, the American Veterinary Medical Association, the National Animal Control Association, the ASPCA, and a host of national animal welfare organizations that have studied the issue and recognize that targeting breeds simply does not work.

 

Ontario has had a Pit ban since 2005 and NO ONES DOGS WERE TAKEN AWAY AND "KILLED"! The ban requires that the dogs be spayed/neutered and leashed and muzzled in public. The worst thing that resulted from the ban was that hundreds of dogs were immediately surrendered to shelters suggesting that many owners were not really as commited to their dogs at all.

 
But the ban in Denver and the ban in the UK DID result in dogs being taken away and killed. Just because it didn't happen in one place doesn't mean it didn't happen in others. And why should my well behaved, polite dog be muzzled in public? What about the big doofy 11 month old lab puppy jumping on and mouthing everyone and drawing blood? Shouldn't someone be required to restrain HIM?
 
 

 
What amazes me is that instead of looking for solutions or alternatives to laws banning the breed people continue to sensationalize. Statements like swimming pools and cars cause more deaths to me is a ridiculous agrument and will not win any points in stopping Pit bans. What amazes me is that instead of looking for solutions or alternatives to laws banning the breed people continue to sensationalize. Statements like swimming pools and cars cause more deaths to me is a ridiculous agrument and will not win any points in stopping Pit bans. So many anti-ban arguments made in this thread only serve to reinforce the notion that Pit owners are simply in denial. For the record I do not support Pit bans but I do find many of the arguments put forward flawed. JMHO

 
 
But we HAVE offered solutions and alternatives. The problem is that they require a bit more effort and money to carry out than a breed ban and so they don't get consideration. What about requireing that a simple computerized or written test be passed in order to legally own dogs of a certain breed? (I think it should apply to all dogs, but since people want something done about "certain breeds," let's just go with them.) Why not require owners of pits to attend a class that shows them the horrors of dog fighting? Why not require reasonable temperament testing on all dogs, and require spaying and neutering/muzzling of those who fail? Require people to take a class on dog aggression? Require spaying and neutering of dogs that are not health tested and titled? Why not focus on the education of HUMANS  instead of the banning of DOGS?
 
I have seen PLENTY of pit owners offer solutions other than breed bans. No one wants to take them into consideration. The truth is that it's easier to just say "No one can have these dogs" than it is to actually educate and monitor dog owners.
 

What amazes me is that instead of looking for solutions or alternatives to laws banning the breed people continue to sensationalize. Statements like swimming pools and cars cause more deaths to me is a ridiculous agrument and will not win any points in stopping Pit bans.

 
But this is statistically accurate. How is it a ridiculous argument? You can't really believe that cars kill less people than pit bulls, or that that fact is irrelevant to the issue.
 
 

So many anti-ban arguments made in this thread only serve to reinforce the notion that Pit owners are simply in denial.

 
Please, by all means....explain to us how we are in denial? Are you saying that our dogs are secretly vicious and waiting to snap, and we're just too blind to see it? Pit bulls are dogs. Not lions, not wolves, not monsters. Dogs. Their brains, jaw structures, and other physical and mental features are no different from that of any other dog. You keep talking about sensationalism- seems to me that painting our dogs as bloodthirsty child killers-which is what the media has done- is about as sensationalist as it gets.
 
 

Again, let me state I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF BLS. All I am saying is that many people put forward arguments that give the impression that they are denial, the problem isn't that bad or there is nothing you can do to address the problem. When you make a legitament point against BSL ...

"Strongly enforced animal control laws (such as leash laws), generic guidelines on dealing with dangerous dogs and increased public education efforts to promote responsible dog ownership are all better ways to protect communities from dangerous animals."

... then add that swimming pools are more dangerous, labs bite more often, criminals will be criminals, never the dog - always the owner, granny's pit never hurt anyone etc. your compelling argument gets dismissed along with your not so solid points. I hope this makes semse. I am not agruing for BSL, on the contrary. If these are the arguments we put to our legislators then I fear we will lose. I think the strongest agrument to be made, is to look at areas that have imposed BSL and see some hard numbers on the effect (or lack of) over a period of time.

ORIGINAL: denise m

Again, let me state I AM NOT IN FAVOR OF BLS. All I am saying is that many people put forward arguments that give the impression that they are denial, the problem isn't that bad or there is nothing you can do to address the problem. When you make a legitament point against BSL ...

"Strongly enforced animal control laws (such as leash laws), generic guidelines on dealing with dangerous dogs and increased public education efforts to promote responsible dog ownership are all better ways to protect communities from dangerous animals."

... then add that swimming pools are more dangerous, labs bite more often, criminals will be criminals, never the dog - always the owner, granny's pit never hurt anyone etc. your compelling argument gets dismissed along with your not so solid points. I hope this makes semse. I am not agruing for BSL, on the contrary. If these are the arguments we put to our legislators then I fear we will lose. I think the strongest agrument to be made, is to look at areas that have imposed BSL and see some hard numbers on the effect (or lack of) over a period of time.

While I see what you are getting at, I do not think anyone who owns a pit bull is in denial.  I think most of us (on here at least) have a very, very good idea of the seriousness of the problem and that our dogs are one bad law away from the needle (and yes, that is a VERY realistic look at the issue).

I'm sorry, but the issue DOES come down to the irresponsibility of HUMANS.  There is no way to get around it.  It is humans that breed irresponsibly, humans that let dogs run losse, humans that have decided that these dogs are good status symbols, humans who fight them, humans that make excuses for aggressive individuals, humans that fail to recognize the early signs of aggression, humans that buy a pit puppy from known human aggressive parents and then chain it in the front yard and encourage aggression, etc.

If the HUMAN problem is not dealt with, via education, punishments that hit where it hurts, etc, then we will have the same issue with other breeds.  If you cut down a weed and don't get the root, the weed will grow back.

Interestly enough, some of the arguments you point out as "flawed" are the very ones that some local governments are siting as reasons for rejecting bans. 

I did watch some of the videos and read some of the articles. While they point out interesting information, I have a few to share as well.
 
Videos:
[linkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=Wl3PQbZ-d6M]YouTube - Pit Bull Movie.[/link]
 
[linkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSJ08K4w5EI]YouTube - Pit Bulls - the other side of the story.[/link]
 
[linkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=9FUbIAHmG4A]YouTube - PIT BULL ATTACK[/link]
 
[linkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=pdISUQj0YXY&mode=related&search=]YouTube - Crazy Woman Orders Pit Bull To Attack Animal Control Officer[/link](yes I know this has human involvement, but the damage the dog does in such a short time is dangerous for society.
 
[linkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=RF4vErQq_Gk]YouTube - PITBULL ATTACK CHILD[/link]
 
[linkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=GVZRBRlDy8M]YouTube - George The hero Jack Russell[/link]
 
[linkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luAr4ZHegnw]YouTube - my bad dog[/link] (no provocation here, no encouragement for the dog to persist)
 
Articles:
 
[linkhttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/gate/archive/2003/11/23/horse23.DTL]Pit bull attacks police horse in Golden Gate Park; two injured[/link]
 
[linkhttp://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/23/MNGRODDG2S1.DTL]Pit bull attacks girl in her Santa Rosa yard / Third mauling in Bay Area in a month amid calls to crack down on the breed[/link]
 
[linkhttp://www.city-journal.org/html/9_2_scared_of_pit.html]Scared of Pit Bulls? You#%92d Better Be! by Brian C. Anderson, City Journal Spring 1999[/link]
 
[linkhttp://www.topix.net/content/cbs/3753079125290457004339172169900185064731]SF Boy Arrested After Pit Bull Attacks 2 Sisters[/link]
 
[linkhttp://www.local10.com/news/13439533/detail.html]Pit Bull Attacks Paramedic, Police Say - News Story - WPLG Miami[/link]
 
[linkhttp://www.venturacountystar.com/news/2007/may/06/pit-bull-attacks-lead-to-investigation-someone/]Pit bull attacks lead to investigation : Local News : Ventura County Star[/link] (Note that this pit bull passed a temperament test, yet look what it did. It shows that the temperament test (likability to attack or something like that) cannot fairly represent whether the pit would attack or not.
 
I will post again in a moment with responses but my AOL connection keeps failing and I didn't want to lose the links.

ORIGINAL: sillysally

ORIGINAL: denise m

All I am saying is that many people put forward arguments that give the impression that they are denial,

While I see what you are getting at, I do not think anyone who owns a pit bull is in denial. 

Sorry, I meant to reply to this and forgot. I agree. I don't believe you are in denial at all - but I think those on the other side of the debate could easily construe certain statements as such.


I'm sorry, but the issue DOES come down to the irresponsibility of HUMANS.  There is no way to get around it.  It is humans that breed irresponsibly, humans that let dogs run losse, humans that have decided that these dogs are good status symbols, humans who fight them, humans that make excuses for aggressive individuals, humans that fail to recognize the early signs of aggression, humans that buy a pit puppy from known human aggressive parents and then chain it in the front yard and encourage aggression, etc.

If the HUMAN problem is not dealt with, via education, punishments that hit where it hurts, etc, then we will have the same issue with other breeds.  If you cut down a weed and don't get the root, the weed will grow back.

That is exactly true! If the human problem is not dealt with then gov't will have no choice but to ban pits IMO. It happens all the time. Smoking bans, manditory seat belts, poop & scoop, leash laws, sharp objects on planes, gun laws, etc. Our society imposes all sorts of rules, laws and regulations on us because a minorty of people are not responsible. Blaming jerks does not make the problem go away. Saying there will always be jerks does not negate the problem. Actually by agruing that there will always be jerks is a good agrument for a ban.

*sigh*

"[linkhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luAr4ZHegnw]YouTube - my bad dog[/link] (no provocation here, no encouragement for the dog to persist)"

Allowing the dogs to react to each other was the encouragement in itself.  This is known as "fence fighting" and you can ask any trainer--this can and DOES happen with any breed.  I will use my lab, Jack, for an example.  I took him to a local dog run.  There were some goldens turned out there without supervision.  The goldens started barking and throwing themselves at the fence.  Jack started to bark back and lounging at the end of the leash.  I did not let this continue, because the behavior would have just escalated, but if I had I bet I could have made a video just like that one.

As a matter of fact, I think you will find one members videos showing her dog (NOT a pit bull) acting that way towards a human, as part of training for protection sports.

Should they be PTS for such behavior?


I do not deny, nor have I ever, that attacks do occur.  Actually, I used to believe just as you do about the breed until I found my dog, realized that after a week of having her in the house searching for her owner that she had not mauled us in our sleep, and decided to do my own research.

However, breed bans are NOT the way to deal with this.  They do NOT fix the problem.  In addition, at least one state has actually found them to be unconstitutional.  A breed ban would only punish the good owners and leave the rest to break the law or go on to ruin another breed.

For all your talk of *loving* dogs, you seem very ready to condemn a good deal of them to death for deeds that they themselves have not even done.  It seems that you would rather kill them all and let God sort them out then accept that there could possibley be a diiferent solution to the issue.  Not mcuh "love" in that, is there?

Irish...if you are going to go tit for tat...I think you are losing steam. There will ALWAYS be footage or news stories to counter....because that's what the news likes to report. Attacks on video by other breeds are harder to find because they don't generate the same buzz.
 
Your opinion is yours...and...you obviously have no intention of changing your views? You are decided to the point that you would spend time looking for footage of dog attacks....that to me seems to say "I have no openess on this topic. It is decided in my mind".
 
So again...what is the actual point you are wanting to make? You are PRO BSL...and I see that. Your views are not shared by many here, inlcuding myself...and that's okay. But if someday your breed is targeted either due to temperament, or the ethics of breeding them because they are unhealthy  (such things have already happened in some countries)...you may find yourself short of allies.

Several of those links are irrelevant....

1.  Pits are already banned in Miami
2.  No one's disputing a pits tendency to be dog-aggressive, so dog-dog attacks don't really apply here.  That's what most of these are.
3.  Some of these incidents are because the owners instigated fights, not the dogs.  In the case of the boy and the girls, he instigated the attack, not the pit, so HE is in trouble with the law.  Same thing w/ the Bronx article.  He clearly states that the humans had turned the lawn into a battle ground.  Banning does nothing to encourage more responsible ownership.
4.  As for the "my bad dog" vid, we have worse at our local shelter.  Most dogs will respond that way when the handler is using that type of harness, not redirecting the dog, using constant pressure on the lead, and allowing the dog to escalate like that.  No surprise there.  He doesn't even look that aggressive, not nearly as bad as some I've seen.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Irish...if you are going to go tit for tat...I think you are losing steam. There will ALWAYS be footage or news stories to counter....because that's what the news likes to report. Attacks on video by other breeds are harder to find because they don't generate the same buzz.
 
Your opinion is yours...and...you obviously have no intention of changing your views? You are decided to the point that you would spend time looking for footage of dog attacks....that to me seems to say "I have no openess on this topic. It is decided in my mind".
 
So again...what is the actual point you are wanting to make? You are PRO BSL...and I see that. Your views are not shared by many here, inlcuding myself...and that's okay. But if someday your breed is targeted either due to temperament, or the ethics of breeding them because they are unhealthy  (such things have already happened in some countries)...you may find yourself short of allies.

I have to say I've been wondering the same thing.  I can't figure out what you're trying to do here, IrishSetterGrl...are you honestly trying to take a community of dog-lovers and convince them that a single breed (which many of us own) is "evil"?  Don't you think that sounds a little ridiculous?  It's clear you're not going to change your views as you seem to be ignoring or not responding to any of the extremely valid points that have been made.  And if you're not trying to better understand the topic then you're really either just stirring things up for the sake of getting us all mad and flustered or you're seriously trying to tell people their beloved dogs are the devil.  Sorry if that sounds a little harsh, but seriously, what are you getting at here?

This was supposed to be posted a couple hours ago but had to take my sister to a doctors appt.
 
It seems the best way to address the comments here is to respond to this, obviously written by an anti-ban advocate, named Rob MacBean. It contains many of the arguments presented.

AN APOLOGY TO BREED BAN ENTHUSIASTS:

I'm sorry you are frightened of my dogs and are trying to have them killed because they are Pit Bulls.
I am sorry that I have to be frightened of your dogs because they are Pit Bulls.

I'm sorry you lack the understanding of this breed's true history, gentleness with people, wonderful temperament, intelligence and behavorial conformation.
I am sorry that you deny the present day effects of the breed's true history, tendency to attack people, unpredictable temperament and the reality of the situation.

I'm sorry you won't read the ATTs stats regarding our breed's true temperament, putting it in the top four for temperament, scoring better than breeds like Golden Retrievers, and cocker spaniels.
I'm sorry you don't understand that pit bulls are unpredictable, therefore this test cannot fairly judge whether the tested pit bulls would attack. At least other dogs give fair warning signs.

I'm sorry that you side with and protect animal abusers by marking the breed of dog, and not the irresponsibility of the owner.
I'm sorry you think that I'm siding with animal abusers and thinking I am entirely blaming the dog. The pit bull was bred for dog aggression which has turned into human aggression (with no reduction in dog aggression) and it is not the pit bull's fault it was bred that way. But it is the pit bull that bites. That attacks. That injures. That kills.

I'm sorry that by your logic I could steal a car, run some people over with it, and then you can blame the make of the car for the accident, as I walk free.
I am sorry that this is actually supposed to be a valid argument and comparable to banning pit bulls because of their breed. If Toyotas were instilled with some trait which meant they would, at any moment, (unpredictability) crash into someone for no reason other than "that's what they do", then the make of the car should be banned, just as the pit bull should.

I'm sorry you generalize one breed of dog with one group of people.
My oh my this one always comes up. I know there are responsible pit owners who care about their dogs but that is not the issue. The issue is the dogs themselves - do they present a danger to society? Yes. Not all pit bulls do things which proves their danger to society, but all pit bulls are dangerous because they are pit bulls. Look at how they attack for the kill, how they don't respond to attempts to stop them, and much more.

I'm sorry you can't see the love and determination that many highly educated, non-criminal and "normal" types of people show towards this breed and the great personal sacrifices that they make to take care of their dog responsibly.
I'm sorry you think I'm blind to it, because I'm not. I'm sorry you seem to be blind to the many dog attacks which involve pit bulls and always brush them off as a result of something the owner did. Always something the owner did. [>:]

I'm sorry you cannot go into the shelters and see the hundreds of abandoned and abused Pit Bulls, dying only for the inane "crime" of being born the breed they are.
I'm sorry that you cannot see that if pits were banned, when they came into shelters, they wouldn't be there anymore to suffer in the shelters. It sounds terrible, yes. But it's the truth

I'm sorry you cannot see the look of disappointment in their eyes when someone walks by their kennel, and refuses to consider adopting them based on an ill-educated, fear-mongering reporter.
I am sorry you cannot see the look of disappointment on one's face when he founds out his dog is dead because of a pit bull, or one of his family members is injured/dead. And I refuse to own pit bulls because they are pit bulls, case in point. Not because they have a false reputation.

I'm sorry that you cannot be there when the animal looks at a human for the last time, and in spite of betrayal by all humans they have met, their tail still wags as someone approaches with the syringe of Euthinol.
Just like they inject into a dog that can't survive after being attacked bit a pit bull?

I'm sorry you cannot be there when law enforcement shoots one of your dogs dead inside it's own home in front of the children it mutually loves for simply getting off the dog bed and walking over to say hello with it's tail wagging.
When that happens, let me know. Even if it did, that has nothing to do with whether pit bulls are safe for society.

I'm sorry you cannot be there to rescue Pit Bull puppes from a plastic bag in a dumpster, dumped there by someone switching their illegal an inhumane activities to another, more lucrative breed.
I'm sorry you don't see that ALL breeds of dogs are abused and bred irresponsibly and the "poor pit bull" card gets old. If pit bulls were banned, less people would buy them thus making the breeding of pits a not so profitable 'business'. Those who dump pit puppies to switch to another breed would actually most likely not switch to another breed if they had little success with the pits since they would see their method of income isn't working. Also, those people should be arrested and be restricted from ever breeding again, and these names should be spread throughout communities to discourage potential buyers.

I'm sorry you cannot understand the difference between canine and human aggression, in the way this breed can.
I'm sorry you cannot see that pit bulls attack dogs AND humans, moreso than other breeds and they are aggressive toward dogs and humans alike.

Yes, I'm saying my Pit Bull is smarter than you.
Ok, your pit bull understands the difference between dog aggression and human aggression. He knows how to harm/kill dogs, but then he also knows how to harm/kill humans. Yes, totally true, he understands the difference

I'm sorry that the medieval witch hunting genetics of intolerance, generalization, and racism make you feel the need to vilify a breed of dog.
I'm sorry you can't see the difference between racism and BSL. Racism is a view on a particular race formed by speculation and judgment which lack evidence and facts to prove truth in one's case. There is plenty of evidence to prove the aggression of pit bulls, their great capability to kill, etc., so no, it's not racism.

I'm sorry that justice, equality, tolerance, common sense are all things you hold dear as a person, and expect from others, but do not yourself offer them towards a Pit Bull or its caregiver.
I'm sorry that if I give justice, equality, tolerance, and common sense toward all it bulls, I am also risking more deaths of other dogs and people. I wish it didn't have to be one or the other, but right now it seems it does.

I'm sorry that you don't take the constructive time to petition changes in the animal cruelty act, and in the criminal code that would deal out serious punishment to the real animal abusers.
Can't the same apply to yourself?

I'm sorry you cannot see the disappointed look on a puppy's face when the people petting it quickly frown and walk away when you tell them it is a Pit Bull.
It is normal to be fearful of a pit bull. I don't blame the people one bit.

I'm sorry that you feel the need to terrorize my family and my dogs for crimes we never have or never will commit.
I'm sorry you don't see that I'm not trying to terrorize anyone's family, I have better things to do with time but just like everyone who opposes the ban, I feel strongly about this issue, just not in the same way. Also, it is impossible to say your dogs will never commit the crimes. Pit bulls are unpredictable, it's just the way they are.

I'm sorry you don't have to live in fear of your dog's safety from hysterical and mentally unstable people trying to inflict all manner of evil upon your dogs.
I highly doubt that everyone who has a pit bull lives in fear because of hysterical and mentally unstable people. I, however, do feel fearful when I'm walking with my dogs and a pit bull in particular approaches, and I have every reason to feel this way.

I'm sorry that you cannot see my breed working in some of the best Search and Rescue groups in the world, saving countless lives each year.
I'm sorry that you cannot see the damage done to 'my breeds' (non pits) and humans as a result of a pit bull attack, which claims lives each year (canine and human).

I'm sorry our media censors and refuses to print the breed name "Pit Bull" when in connection with a positive act such as saving a person or child from a burning house, drowning, wild attacking animals, etc.
If the media doesn't report this, how is even known in the first place?

I'm sorry you cannot see the many Pit Bulls registered as therapy dogs and bringing so much joy to another misunderstood, neglected demographic in our society, the senior citizen.
I'm sorry that you cannot see the point that pit bulls are unpredictable, you never know when they will 'turn on' so to speak so it not entirely safe to use them as therapy dogs around senior citizens who most likely cannot defend themselves as easily as others...unless you are the man in [linkhis>http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Senior_citizen_kills_attacking_pit_bull_with_bare_hands]this story, who is a senior citizen attacked by a pit bull for no reason.

I'm sorry you can't see a Pit Bull kiss a child, step carefully over a kitten, or play in sunbeam.
I'm sorry you seem to forget about the face of a child who has just been attacked by a pit bull, or the wounds (which were shown in some of the vids posted earlier). I'm sorry you seem to forget the face of the puppy attacked by a pit bull as well.

I'm sorry you cannot wake in the morning to feel a warm Pit Bull cuddled next to you in bed, and know that you are their total world, and even if the house caught fire and trapped you they would stay with you to the end.
Don't be sorry; I would not enjoy owning a pit bull because I would be suspecting the whole time, and for fair reasons.

But, now that I really think about it, I'm not at all sorry you don't own a Pit Bull -- you do not deserve one.
If you mean I do not deserve being attacked, then yes I agree with this statement. I (and everyone else) deserve a dog who will not suddenly turn aggressive without warning or provocation.
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I know what I wrote seems harsh. But I truly feel that, namely the most recent, the responses I received have been pretty harsh and I cannot help but respond the same way to try to get a point across. No, I did not start this thread to stir up trouble. Yes, it is unlikely that I will change my opinion on this issue, just like it is doubtful that anyone else will change theirs. What happened to something called a debate? Is it not alright to have opposing views? Is it possible to debate an issue without suspecting that the original asker of the question asked simply to cause trouble? I have been volunteering at the local humane society for the past 3-4 years now, I do care about dogs. And, everyone makes the argument that the only reason it appears that pit bulls are more dangerous than other breeds is because of what the media chooses to show. Isn't it a thing itself that there are so many stories to show?? Fatal attacks in general (on humans and other dogs) ARE largely a result of pit bull attacks. Yes, I have openness on this topic but all the points brought up, while definitely thought provoking, fail to sway my view anymore than the ones I'm bringing up fail to change all of yours. I read the points that were brought up, and I know that not all PBs attack but IMO the attacks that pit bulls as abreed  are responsible for outweigh the positives of this breed. Is it really worth many human lives? Yes, the links are relevant because pit bulls are a danger in society to a.) humans and b.) to other dogs. As far as my breed being targeted for temperament, that is highly unlikely because even if IS progressively became more aggressive, they do not have the killing power PBs do.
 
I am not trying to cause trouble, I just have a different opinion and just as many of you try to give me information to make me see your perspective, I am giving you my own information to try to make you see mine. I feel I did that before without pinpointing anyone because I was debating the issue, not the motives of the debater.
 
I do not support BSL because I just happen to want to kill pit bulls, but when people and other dogs are dying because of them, it may be what needs to be done. The key to BSL is enforcement and the monitoring of those who had pit bulls (before seized) who had criminal records, as those people would probably be the most likely group to try to 'ruin another breed'. Having a computerized test or something to decide who can own a certain breed, while it may help a little, does not change the fact that pit bulls were originally bred to be aggressive toward other dogs, and for one reason or another this aggression has also come to include that toward humans.
 
I really don't know what to say anymore. I really like this forum, I again am not trying to cause an upset. I am not calling anyone's dog a devil, the breed is what it is and no amount of "pitbulllove.com" sites can change that.

Add all Irish setters were bred to be stupid...bred the brains right out of them
 
Dogs are not unpredictable, people are just clueless.
 
So, once you get rid of pits, you want to go after that rotts, then the shepherds,,oh and then my belgians,,,, oh dont forget the dobermans etc.
 
Oh that is right, we should all just own brainless Irish Setters.
 
Sorry that was somewhat unkind, and the moderator may choose to delete this post..However, the statements are no different in tone or content than the posts about bull breeds.

ORIGINAL: mrv

Add all Irish setters were bred to be stupid...bred the brains right out of them

Dogs are not unpredictable, people are just clueless.

So, once you get rid of pits, you want to go after that rotts, then the shepherds,,oh and then my belgians,,,, oh dont forget the dobermans etc.

Oh that is right, we should all just own brainless Irish Setters.

Sorry that was somewhat unkind, and the moderator may choose to delete this post..However, the statements are no different in tone or content than the posts about bull breeds.

 
Actually, it is true that Irish Setters aren't naturally the smartest dogs out there. Fine by me. I still love 'em. []