Peta's 2006 shelter kill rates. (97%)

Glad to see they're doing the animals justice! 

erica1989

nymaureen

Well, I'm just wondering if these same folks put as much time and effort into finding a solution to the problem

I have an answer to that, they don't! PETA believes that animals are not meant to be kept as pets. They believe that they are animals, and only that. By "saving" the animals, they mean that they would much rather have them released into the wild "where they belong".

HSUS and ASPCA do not donate money to your local shelter. They come and give advice on how to run things better, but that is basically the extent of their involvment. Your local Humane Society and SPCA do not get funding from those nation-wide orgainzations. When donating time and money, you are much better off going down to your local shelter and spending it there. Then you know your efforts are really going to the animals. Not saying that HSUS and ASPCA don't ever help animals, they just don't do it in the way that everything thinks they do.

Could someone point me to the place on PETA's website or mission statement where they don't believe in companion animals?  I ask 1) because I'm genuinely curious and 2) because I'm in a nonprofit class this semester and have chosen to do a thorough evaluation of them as a nonprofit organization for my semester project.  I hear this charge tossed around alot and I can't find anything that comes directly from them that represents that they don't believe in animals such as dogs and cats not being pets.

TIA! 

ETA: Never mind, I found it :http://www.peta.org/campaigns/ar-petaonpets.asp

I happen to believe in Sue S. and her mission 100%.  I wish we could save them all too but we can't and then what happens is the adoptable dogs end up euth and the problem dogs adopted.  It's sad that there are so many dogs without homes and there are people who are willing, experienced and can rehab some problems dogs but they are far and few between.

I don't know anything about PETA but I have heard the same line, animals shouldn't be raised for pets, coasts or food - I believe most PETA followers are vegetarian or Vegans as well.

timsdat

Sound like she has stricter definitions that Winograd does and he gets blasted regularly when he states that not every dog can be saved.

  I totally agree that not all dogs are adoptable. I have been to Sue's seminar talking about the Acess-A-Pet (her temperamnt test). I think he test itself is pretty good but she is way strict. Strict like she pretty much rules out any dog as being adoptable if the dog has higher drive or is aloof. The food guarding - she views any food guarding at all as being bad, not just extreme cases. To her adoptable dogs are the most gentle, docile, playful but soft, outgoing, easiest of dogs. I don't agree that everyone wants or needs only that one type of dog. And her test would rule out the majority of certain breeds on basis of their general aloof nature - hounds, chows, shibas or their "high octane" personalities - most of the more intense herding breeds. Sue also states that she feels up to 85% of dogs in shelters should be PTS.

 And all of that aside everyone has had or known less than ideal dogs who were great pets for their people. My first dog was from the pound and was very, very shy even as a baby puppy. He'd have never passed the temperament test. Yes he'd have been a handful for someone looking for an easy dog. Of course we were just dog loving pet owners and I got him for my 11th birthday. I took that dog everywhere with me and was sooooo happy to have a dog of my own. I did wonder and sometimes worry about his behavior but not too much. I took him to 4H classes. After a couple years of training and socializing by a kid who had never trained a dog before, he became a normal dog. Not just a normal dog actually, he became the dog that everyone wanted - smart, obedient, easy to live with and easy to take anywhere. I don't know maybe he should have been PTS as a puppy because he wasn't going to be an easy dog. But given a chance, he turned out to be a really good dog. I enjoyed taking him to training and taking him with me. Because of him I became very involved with dogs and still am.

 All that said, I like a lot of her stuff in theory and she has come up with some great, creative programs like the Training Wheels and Train for Adoption. I thought her seminar was good and worthwhile to see, even if I don't agree with the way she reads her own testing.

Many dogs are surrendered to shelters for those very reasons. People get cute little puppies - don't train them, then give up on them. I believe the actual numbers of "bad dogs" are very slim, they just need the right person to guide them. But then shelters run into the problem of - well, how long do we wait for some one that will help "Fluffy" with her "bad dog" issues. There is no easy way for shelters to decide adoptable/nonadoptable.

My own dog? Was not "adoptable". Placed into any other home, he would have been brought back for biting and aggression. The one thing that really gets me with the temperment testing - is behaviorists make exceptions for the small dogs. But if it was a large lab guarding that ball and bowl, he's not adoptable. But the shih tzu is ok.

I've read a lot of Sue's writings, and it's all very interesting to read. I don't believe 100% in what she says - but she does make many good points.

erica1989

Many dogs are surrendered to shelters for those very reasons. People get cute little puppies - don't train them, then give up on them. I believe the actual numbers of "bad dogs" are very slim, they just need the right person to guide them. But then shelters run into the problem of - well, how long do we wait for some one that will help "Fluffy" with her "bad dog" issues. There is no easy way for shelters to decide adoptable/nonadoptable.

 I agree most dogs are in shelters do to their owners not training them and having some behavior issues with them. I used to do a behavior night at the shelter, where people could bring their dog for free one on one help. The people were made up of people who recently adopted a dog and wanted to start off right, people who adopted a dog but were thinking of returning it because they were having behavioral issues and owners who had called about surrendering their dog for behavior problems. The program really helped as far as keeping dogs in homes in all cases.

 I have seen shelters use Sue's test and decide to have little puppies PTS for food guarding. From my expereince with litters, most puppies food guard from each other and ones which are not used to a lot of human interaction try it with people too. I also think with puppies it is easy enough to teach them not to. I agree that small breeds are likely to be forgiven for a lot but also keep in mind most shelters have a "shortage" of little dogs and multiple people who want them.

We have  behavior help line at our shelter. Volunteers make follow up calls approx. 1 week after the adoption to see how things are going. If there are issues - the adopters are refered to a behaviorist/trainer accustomed to dealing with that issue. I wish we had a behavior training program - esp. for the people adopting our animals. We were talking about doing agility one night a week - we have a few volunteers who teach agility both to our dogs and in their private training facilities. Another shelter near by offers a free training course for every dog adopted from them. I think that's a fantastic program. Others can join, for a fee of course, but I don't think it's very high - def. cheaper than petsmart or a training group.

All the pups I have dealt with do have some food guarding instincts. We work with these issues immediatly - and eventually get passed them. Does Sue use any training techniques to work with the dogs after she tests them? Or is it a one-time you fail you're out of luck type deal?

erica1989

All the pups I have dealt with do have some food guarding instincts. We work with these issues immediatly - and eventually get passed them. Does Sue use any training techniques to work with the dogs after she tests them? Or is it a one-time you fail you're out of luck type deal?

 I can't recall her touching much on doing any kind of behavior modification for things she viewed as serious issues (aloofness, high drive, food guarding). It was stressed that there are always more dogs coming in, so space and time shouldn't be devoted to problem dogs. She does work a lot on manners type training with the dogs she has in the shelter. I do believe on the shelter dog HBO show she did have a food guarder for a few weeks before he was PTS. That dog caused a lot of controversy because one of the last scenes of the dog shows her taking him through a drive thru and hand feeding him cheeseburgers without any guarding issues.

That's what I thought. I've read rave reviews of her testings, but never heard anything about training. I agree that not all dogs are adoptable, but some just need a bit of guidence and management.