Sadly...another dog attack

whtsthfrequency

No, I'm sorry. I draw the line at a dog killing a person.

Sure, but can we realize that less than THIRTY (usually 20-25) people in the US are killed a year by dogs? Out of how many dogs? How many pit bulls? How many people are MURDERED by other people? How many kids are killed by their parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, grandparents, strangers, by cars, etc.? It's horrifying when a dog, ANY dog, kills someone, especially a child, but it pretty much NEVER happens, so to freak out about it, and attack pit bulls over it, is just really silly. I want to hear more outrage over PARENTS killing their children, but it's so common that we really don't hear much about it when it happens. But a "pit bull" (or so they call it anyway) killing a kid, WHOA, time for a witch hunt!!

Maizysmom..if you really think anyone was attacking dalmatians, you're mistaken and I'm sorry for giving you that impression. I personally was just trying to show you how it felt to have a generally perfectly stable dog breed attacked and labeled as mean or unstable, especially one near and dear to your heart. I have nothing against ANY breeds. I love all dogs, and know that biting is a DOG thing, not a BREED thing.

Mauling always, always, ALWAYS goes back to people. It is a person, or MANY people's fault that dog killed that child. It just is. Mauling and killing are not normal dog traits in any way shape or form, so it HAS to be man's fault. The people who bred that dog (and probably several generations back) are at fault. The people who left him outside and unsocialized are at fault. The person who wasn't watching the child is at fault. Should the dog be euthanized? YES!! He's not salvageable, IMO, but it's not HIS fault.

whtsthfrequency

What worries me about this incident....

The dog (breed irrelevant, as seeing I might need to have this disclaimer due to the onslaught against maizysmom) KILLED the child. Not bit. Killed.

There is something much more wrong with that than parent's not having their eyes on their kids every two seconds. This dog obviously had issues. We can argue till we are blue in the face about who's fault it was , but the fact of the matter is that a dog that will kill a child, for any reason, needs to be euthanized, and you can't hide behind saying "oh, it wasn't socialized, oh, poor dog..." No, I'm sorry. I draw the line at a dog killing a person.

Well of course the dog should be euthed.  A dog that mauls and doesn't kill should be euthed.  Everybody loses in tragic situations like this.  However, exploring *why* these things happen might help, even in some small way, prevent them from happening again.  The more extreme the aggression, the more important it is to try to discover the causes, IMHO.  

Well maybe like siillysally said,maybe I didn't word it the right way. I am sorry if that's what led to this confusion.We do all agree that any dog can not be  trusted and owners should always be watchful,especially when children are around.  We all love our dogs and protect them as much as they protect us,so I know not to call down any breed, as it boils down to how the dog is raised and treated by its owner.  This whole thing was a tragic incident and it could have been any breed.   I hope this puts the whole issue to rest and I will try to word things better.

Sorry, I meant Dog_ma,not sillysally.  Already I'm goofing up, again.   

I'm wondering why does everyone think the dog is not savageable?  If it was a management issue this dog would be fine with the right people, no? 

I'm not being sarcastic here--I'm asking in a serious way.  Especially, considering that Willow could very possibly seriously injure a child or even kill it if she was in the wrong hands.

The people who left him outside and unsocialized are at fault. The person who wasn't watching the child is at fault. Should the dog be euthanized? YES!! He's not salvageable, IMO, but it's not HIS fault.

 I guess we will have to agree to disagree. Think how many dogs are neglected and left outside. How many of these thousands and thousands of dogs kill people. Does some fault lie with the people? Yes. But you do not instill a killer instinct in a dog via simple neglect. Unsociailzed, yes, biting, yes, but not killing. It is unnatural and goes way beyond how he was treated. The once exception may be the poor pitties who are forced to fight and therefore must have a killer instict to avoid death themselves, or dogs which are particulary brutal physical abuse cases....in the ultimate "wrong hands" as willowchow said.

whtsthfrequency

But you do not instill a killer instinct in a dog via simple neglect.

No, but through generations of breeding and inbreeding "vicious" dogs PLUS neglect, I bet you can.

And Lori.. I have an aggressive dog too who is definitely capable of nasty bites, but I do not for a second think Cherokee is capable of killing a person. If I thought she were, I'm honestly not positive I could keep her. I would at the very least manage her A LOT more strictly than I do now. I've obviously never met Willow, but I doubt she's capable of killing someone either.

I think people forget to pay attention to correlation vs. causation. Pit bull type dogs attack more than any other, that's a fact. But they don't attack BECAUSE they're pit bulls, they attack because of how they're bred, treated, and who owns them. They're the breed of choice (for their tough look and repuation as mean dogs...nothing to do with how they truly are) of drug dealers, thugs, gang members, and just nasty people..the scum of the Earth. If those people thought any largish breed of dog was the "tough, mean" image they wanted, THOSE breeds would attack more than any other. I guarantee it.

I live with a pit bull and there is NOTHING inherent to the breed that involves human aggression, and the one I live with doesn't even have an INKLING of dog aggression, EVER. He even came from some scumbag drug dealer in inner city Baltimore, and he's still the absolute nicest and sweetest dog I've ever met. Explain that one if pit bulls are inherently vicious, or "off".

Has anyone found and actual information that this dog was kepy purely outside and/or neglected? Or are we all making assumptions? All the article says is that the dog was in the yard, and had been seen before in the yard unsupervised.

Explain that one if pit bulls are inherently vicious, or "off"

I'm not saying that . I am saying that some dogs may be born "off" just as some people are born "off" (think serial killers....appear totally fine from the outside and then are set off for little to no reason) and sometimes there is nothing you can do about it. Was this the case with this dog? I am not sure. There isn't nearly enough information for people to go around blaming only the parents, or only the dog, or only the kid. I am just trying to provide an alternate viewpoint.

whtsthfrequency

There isn't nearly enough information for people to go around blaming only the parents, or only the dog, or only the kid.

Definitely true. I'm speaking more in hypotheticals or about past situations than about this specific case. Like you said, there's just not enough information about it to draw conclusions.

Is anyone really trying to put the blame on the kid though? At 2, there's no POSSIBLE way it was his fault. My 2 year old nephew is a beastly, animal-provoking child (love you Noah!!), and actually a couple months ago got bitten by his dog, but it wasn't HIS fault, nor was it the dog's. That really only leaves the parents.

I used to be on here as mmthomason but my user name no longer works.

 I have to say that I have 2 Dalmatians, 1 GSD/Greyhound mix & one PIT BULL (gasp!).

I have to disagree with Dalmatians being family dogs. They are NOT family dogs, but probalby can be with the proper training. Neither of my Dals are good around children but my pit bull is WONDERFUL with kids.

My alpha dog, which is one of my Dals will start fights with the other dogs if left unsupervised.

My pit bull you ask, well, she will back down from any fight with her tail between her legs.  

I used to foster animals & one of my fosters was an Am Staff. He went to a home with 2 children (one is 2 one is 7, the 7 year old is a special needs epileptic child). He does WONDERFULLY with them. He also lives peacefully with 2 other pit bulls who both do very well with the children. He actually snuggles in his crate with the pit that the owner adopted after him. I have lots of pics of the kids & Jet (the Am Staff). He is very good with the children and very devoted to his whole family. (as are the other 2 pits in the household)

I would say that pit bulls are better "family dogs" as well as far more even tempered than Dalmatians from my experience (again I own 2 Dals myself & I have fostered one). I would discourage most people with children from getting a Dalmatian.

Oh yeah, and as a PS-My pit bull is so dangerously scary she is AFRAID of going outside when it is dark.

I cant tell you how many times that I heard how aggressive Dalmatians are. Everyone I tell I have Dals has a horror story that involves being bit by a Dalmatian.

All my future dogs will be pit bull rescues. I love the breed, but I do get tired of hearing all these pit bull stories. Dogs who make the news are untrained, unsocialized dogs who are taught to be aggressive are going to bite no matter what their breed. They should be attacking the idiot owners who cause this to happen instead of the breed.

The worst foster I ever had was the Dalmatian who was very DOG aggressive.

I dont really want to say anymore because I know some people believe what they believe and they wont listen until they SEE it themselves. Kind of funny that Helen Keller owned a pit bull as well as Theodore Roosevelt. Rachael Ray has a pit bull. I also heard that Angeline Jolie & Brad Pitt just adopted a pit bull-they have a lot of children. The list goes on & on. A lot of my friends who have children & a pit bull but I doubt anyone on here who disagrees will believe me.

I dont check this forum often but I had to say my peace since I believe pit bulls make better family dogs than Dalmatians. I wont hesitate to stand up for this breed, since they dont deserve to be talked badly about. If Dalmatians were bred as much as pit bulls were & all we heard were bad news stories of Dalmatian attacks then people would believe Dals were aggressive (most people already believe Dals are aggressive) and they would be banned. And believe it or not Dals DO bite.

I do agree that you shouldnt leave your children alone with dogs, especially young children.

Are pits for everyone? NO! I also dont think Dals are for everyone (or most poeple).

I dont think it is the kid's fault, it is the PARENTS fault.  I would never blame a 2 year old child as they do not have common sense. It is the parent's job to protect the child.