Dog Community

"gun buy back" concept used to increase s/n???

Posted : 8/16/2007 10:19:00 AM

Reading another thread about pet stores having to pay a fee to sell unaltered pets really made me think. Charging the pet store owner means he ups the prices, but will it increase the s/n rate?

I had two ideas:
1. A rebate type situation for pet stores similar to those at adoption centers---you pay a fee and get some money back when you return with proof of s/n. If the pet stores had to pay a big fee and got a rebate with proof the pups they sold had been altered then that would encourage them to encourage new puppy owners to s/n, right?

2.
I know many towns have a different fee to reg an intact pet. In some places it works pretty well---but in others where many people choose NOT to reg. their dogs the increased fee does nothing to increase the s/n rate.

Ever heard of gun buy back programs where people turn in guns and get paid? What if we applied this approach to s/n?

So what if instead of just charging a higher fee, local ACOs had "s/n" days where people brought in their proof of s/n and reg. and got some kind of reward? Info on low cost s/n could be heavily advertised in the months before the day and maybe a clinic could be arranged so that folks who brought in their pet to be fixed could reg. their dogs then?

How many people with unregistered, intact dogs would think it was a good idea for the dog to be fixed if it meant $50 in their pocket and their names in a drawing to win a huge tv or some other big prize? Folks under a certain income level would be eligible for free surgery---so free neutering and you get paid for bringing the dog in??? That's a win-win.

It could increase registrations and s/n right? Your dog would need both to have the reward. At the same time the fees for intact registrations could stay the same and the fines for having an unregistered dog could be raised to increase the financial incentive to register.

Yes, it would be expensive but how much does a city in CA spend on caring for homeless animals every year? If enough dogs were fixed that otherwise would have had litters this could make a big impact on the number of animals in shelters.

I don't know the financial break point on this or how to determine it...If paying 10 people $50 each for having altered their pets means 5 less litters this year---and an unknown number of descendents in the future---is it worth it?

Or does the sex of the dogs matter? or the ratio of s to n? After all if you have even one intact male dog in a neighborhood he can contribute to many litters in a year....but one intact female in a neighborhood can only have one litter at a time?

Thoughts? Pros? Cons? I'm curious to see what people think...

cakana

Posted : 8/16/2007 12:51:36 PM

I think you have some very creative suggestions and anything that helps, even just a little, is worthwhile IMO. I know I've seen this debated before, but what is the most common reason that people don't spay/neuter? I tend to think it's laziness and ignorance in most cases, but I could be way off base. Assuming I'm not though, I think that the best part about any program such as you're desscribing is that it's media attention and educational. In my mind, the more people see/hear about the benefits of spay/neuter, even if that benefit is a cost factor, the more we'll see positive results.

Anonymous

Posted : 8/16/2007 3:43:54 PM

While ignorance and laziness may be factors, I believe the main issue regarding s/n is lack of education and guidance as well as lack of financial resources of pet owners. Those two things go hand-in-hand because without pet owners being educated about low cost programs in their area, they may think that this type of surgery is out of their reach.

For example, as a mom of 3, finances are tight. I plan to get Reesee spayed as soon as her pups find homes. I aslo plan to have pet owner sign a contract that includes a requirement to have them neutered. I called my vets office to get an estimate on how much her spay will cost, that way I know what to charge for the puppies. I almost hit the floor when the receptionist said $371!

Why is such a routine and necessary surgery so expensive? I called the local HS and they charge......$60. Granted, they don't provide pain medication for the dogs during recovery but I was told by my vet that he will give me a prescription if I show proof that the spay occured via the HS.

$371 is more than minimum wage workers bring home in a week. Unfortunately, not all pet owners are computer savvy enough to research these things. Maybe they don't have phones to call around. Maybe they just don't know any better. That is where education and guidance come into play.

Spaying and neutering is the only way we are going to get our pet population under control....short of euth-ing. So to answer your questions PolarExpress, anything educates people of the importance and the availability of these procedures, especially to the working poor, would be a great way to combat this issue.

fuzzy_dogs_mom

Posted : 8/17/2007 10:17:40 PM

The UCD Vet School has a Spay/Neuter Day one Saturday a year in the spring. Everything is free, and they do as many as 400 speuters that day. If all the vet schools and vet hospitals in the country would do this just once a year I think it would make a significant impact, at least in the areas within driving distance of the facility.

Joyce

timsdat

Posted : 8/17/2007 11:05:40 PM

The UCD Vet School has a Spay/Neuter Day one Saturday a year in the spring. Everything is free, and they do as many as 400 sputters that day. If all the vet schools and vet hospitals in the country would do this just once a year I think it would make a significant impact, at least in the areas within driving distance of the facility.

One other factor in the availability and the cost factors of neutering is the fact that there are some low income people that don't own a car. They relay on public transportation especially in big cities. These are the people that need the most help and because of transportation problems that can partake of clinics. They also are in the type of jobs where they just take off whenever they want. There are plenty of people behind them to fill the job. So whatever solution is proposed it also has to address transportation problems and scheduling problems to the neuter site. There are some programs that I know of that provide animal transportation from and to the hospital.

janet_rose

Posted : 8/18/2007 6:34:10 PM

NC_cockermama
I called my vets office to get an estimate on how much her spay will cost, that way I know what to charge for the puppies. I almost hit the floor when the receptionist said $371!

Why is such a routine and necessary surgery so expensive? I called the local HS and they charge......$60.

Let's not be too quick to criticize the vet for charging more! First off, the HS is a non-profit, so taxes are lower. Now let's compare the services.

Does the vet include:
(1) pre-surgery blood work and clotting panel
(2) inhalent anesthesia (safer, but more expensive)
(3) a heart monitor during surgery
(4) a fresh sterile instrument pack for each patient
(5) aftercare

How much surgical experience does the HS vet have? How rushed is he? Does he volunteer his services? What are the complication and fatality rates of the vet clinic vs the HS?

Note: It is cheaper to do a surgery well than to recover from surgical complications and infections.

Anonymous

Posted : 8/18/2007 10:07:42 PM

I wasn't being critical of the vet for his fees. The thing is, there is a serious pet population issue in our country. And while I understand the costs involved, I feel that vets should consider making this surgery more affordable because of the seriousness of overpopulation.

Maybe it's just me, but I do think that vets have some responsibilty in helping to curb the amount of unwanted pets in this country.

Think about it like this, the amount of animals euthanized per year in this country is staggering. If these pets that are being literally disposed of each year were actually humans, this would be considered an epidemic.

glenmar

Posted : 8/19/2007 10:03:40 AM

The vet that one of the HS's I'm involved in actually charges $30 for a routine spay/nueter. He retired from a huge practice in Chicago after his partner dropped dead of a heart attack at a very young age, and moved up our way. He has a mobile surgical center and ALL he does are spueters for HS's and the occassional patient who he doesn't want to do at a clinic. Theo was such a patient since his was basically a spay...a search and destroy mission to FIND his undescended testicles.

This guy really believes in what he is doing and doesn't need to make money doing it. He is the rare exception since most vets have overhead and office staff to support.

cockermama, a nueter is typically much less expensive than a spay and I think your pups were all male? Ask a VET for the cost of a routine nueter and base your nueter deposit on that. Much easier to enforce a nueter if there is money on the line than it is over a piece of paper. Even if they get the pups neutered at the HS, well, they've still got a healthy chunk of change coming back once they do it.

The only problem I can see with the low cost or free spueter day is, aside from the folks who can't take off work, don't have vehicles, how are you going to publicize it? Print, such as newspaper does NOT do public service announcements, and print advertising rates are enormous. Radio does still, but in rotation with a zillion other worthy causes, and TV, well, TV typically places their PSA's in the soaps or late nite. Even printing posters to put around town is going to be darned costly for a FREE event.

ron2

Posted : 8/19/2007 5:29:06 PM

What if it were a crime to own an intact animal unless you had a breeder or shower license? Like a class C Misdemeanor punishable by $1,000 to $5,000 fine and/or 90 days in jail?

polarexpress

Posted : 8/20/2007 8:02:55 AM

ORIGINAL: NC_cockermama

I wasn't being critical of the vet for his fees. The thing is, there is a serious pet population issue in our country. And while I understand the costs involved, I feel that vets should consider making this surgery more affordable because of the seriousness of overpopulation.

Maybe it's just me, but I do think that vets have some responsibilty in helping to curb the amount of unwanted pets in this country.

NH currently has the lowest euthansia rate in the country due partly to the fact that vets around the state agreed to cut their fees for low income families and people who adopt from shelters. I've read that three quarters of all vets in NH participate in the state-funded s/n program, but I haven't met a vet (or heard of one) who doesn't participate.

I think having vets all over the state be part of the program has been key to its success because people can go to a local vet---usually their regular vet if they have one. It works for the vets too, because part of the program includes shelter adoptions, so new pet owners looking for a vet are going to look first at the ones who offer the low cost s/n.

If you adopt from a NH shelter you can have your cat or dog altered for $25-50 which you pay to the vet and the vet charges the state for the difference. This doesn't include pre-surgery immunizations.

If you already have a pet and are eligible for benefits like food stamps, SSI, Medicaid, AFDC, "Aid to the Permanently and Totally Disabled," "Old Age Assistance" or "Aid to the Needy Blind" then a s/n costs $10 and

re-surgical immunizations up to $35 are covered.

If you need financial help but don't fit the category above you can apply for to the state for a certificate for lower cost s/n---dogs: $70 sp/ $50 n or cats $50 sp/$35 n.

There are also a couple of non-state-funded programs.