Latest anti-Cali s/n bill letter

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Cathy I've already stated numerous times that have no issue with breeder licensing, litter permits, and heavier regulation or outright banning the sale of puppies and kittens via pet stores or any similar retail outlets...or requiring dogs and cats purchased thru such outlets..to be altered prior to sale. That alone would make a bigger difference, IMO.
 
Forcing surgery on privately owned pets, especially on a puppy or kitten, is not the answer...period.

You have to force S/N surgery on the people that don't bother to have their pets S/N, because if you don't , they will not do it.  Same with Rabies shots, if it wasn't a law and required for licensing. a large number of people wouldn't bother at all.  Even with the laws, where I live, we have a large illegal immigrant population, and they just don't bother with Rabies shots. 

ORIGINAL: Xeph



BUYING a dog is easy.  Any idiot can go look in the paper and come home with pup within the hour.  I help with rescue, but honestly, my own rescue is unlikely to adopt to me (and I'm talking WITHOUT money troubles).  I'm too young, my situation may change too much, etc. etc.  I got Strauss FRESH out of high school, bought him with not nearly enough knowledge of the breed, bought him from a BYB and by sheer dumb luck got a dog with a rather stunning pedigree, fantastic temperament, and the second best friend I've ever had (nothing could surpass Twinkle Star, admittedly).

I got a breed I will fight for the right and privlege to own forever.

I shouldn't have been able to buy a dog that easily, and if I were JQP, Mouse would have been sent to the shelter a zillion times over already.  He's active, he's vocal, he's bratty, he's mouthy.  He's smart, he's sweet, he's happy, he is a JOY.  The issues I'm having with him are normal issues that JQP would have thrown their hands up at and said "Too much work!  I quit!"  And I don't allow myself to quit on this dog.

I shouldn't have been able to buy this dog.  But I was.  And I did.  And he's mine.

People need to take time to educate themselves, and THAT'S how these high numbers will decline...not through crappy legislation.

I think it is great that the adoption agencies  really check out people before they adopt a dog.  The average person with a new dog spends well over $1,000 the first year, on the dog.  If someone  don't have that kind of money, or have other facilities that the dog requires,  then they shouldn't be adopting a dog. or owning a dog, period.  Get a goldfish or something.....It's not fair to the dog, and if the dog comes down with an illness or has an accident, it is another situation where back to the  shelter or PTS will probably be the result.  We see it all the time...

Even with the laws, where I live, we have a large illegal immigrant population, and they just don't bother with Rabies shots.

 
And you think that with another new law they will magically start following it since they aren't following the rabies laws now?
 

ORIGINAL: timsdat

Even with the laws, where I live, we have a large illegal immigrant population, and they just don't bother with Rabies shots.

And you think that with another new law they will magically start following it since they aren't following the rabies laws now?

No, and nobody thinks they will.  They drive without drivers licenses and insurance, and don't pay taxes, don't get rabies shots, let their dog's walk off leash where a leash law is in effect,  so I doubt if they will S/N their dogs if a law in my state was enacted. But a mandatory S/N  law, which I hope my state will eventually adopt, will make  the average law abiding citizen  comply. That will drastically reduce the number of pets that are executed every day, in my state, some in gas chambers......

Want to read what it is like to have a dog executed in a gas chamber, go to this link...
http://www.all-creatures.org/adow/art-20060816.html

I think it is great that the adoption agencies  really check out people before they adopt a dog. 

I should have been clear.
 
Our local animal shelter will adopt to just about anybody.  They've actually been offering 20% off all cats to try and move them out.  They don't truly screen anybody, they just ask generic questions, and there you go.
 
Our breed specific rescues are tough.  However, I don't think somebody should be turned down just because they don't have a fenced yard and work an 9-7 (yes, 9-7) job.  And I don't think that a 50 year old man should be turned down for the English Springer Spaniel he wants when he's owned the breed form 30 years, simply because he's 50 and his hair is gray, and the ESS is an energetic breed.
 
People that have known me since I was little NEVER expected me to have a German Shepherd Dog.  They're highly energetic, and go go go, and "What's next?!" and I....I am a lazy a$$.  I'd rather sit at home and lounge on the couch enjoying the air conditioning as opposed to getting off my duff and taking the dog for a 3 mile jog. 
 
On paper, I am the crappiest person ever to own a GSD!  On paper, I shouldn't be able to have one!
 
In the real world, I'm an excellent Shepherd owner.  In the real world, I do everything possible to keep my dog happy, healthy, and sane.  In the real world, I am somebody that people should WANT to own a dog!
 
But on paper? "Throw out that application, it's no good."

will make alot of other people that want to live in our society, comply.

 
Here is one of the fallacys in the law.  Responsible people breed responsibily.  They play by the rules do all the things right.  They also follow the laws so it isn't necessary to target them.  Irresponsible people won't give a damn and not follow the law anyway.  So what have you gained.  Punished responsible people that follow the law.
 

ORIGINAL: timsdat

will make alot of other people that want to live in our society, comply.

Here is one of the fallacys in the law.  Responsible people breed responsibily.  They play by the rules do all the things right.  They also follow the laws so it isn't necessary to target them.  Irresponsible people won't give a damn and not follow the law anyway.  So what have you gained.  Punished responsible people that follow the law.

Who is responsible?  The shelters are filled with dogs with Pedigrees,  where did they come from???  Who verifies who is responsible.  It's all smoke and mirrors just to avoid dealing with the fact that there are way too many dogs and cats that are born every day...  .

I disagree. ADOPTING a dog in a lot of places is like the spanish inquisition! No matter what you put down, they find something wrong with your application.

 
I think that adopting from a good shelter or rescue is more difficult and it should be.  I rescued/adopted Sassy from the shelter and they didn't ask much of anything other than a little money and I had to pick her up at the vet the day she was spayed.  That makes good sense and I'm grateful for that.  If absolutely nothing else is done, I hope that it becomes mandatory that any animal from a shelter or rescue is only adopted out after a spay/neuter. 
 
Sassy's been a real challenge too.  She's had severe allergies and skin infections and I've probably spent well over $2000 just this last year on vet bills and meds.  She's also had aggression issues with our other dog and so we've had our hands full and even sought the help of a behaviorist.  Most people would've surrendered her or had her euthanized long ago.  Like you, I consider both of my dogs as serious commitments.  Sadly, most people don't.  If it takes legislation to turn things around, then for the sake of dogs and cats sitting in shelters waiting for the end, we shouldn't be so adverse to it.  There are plenty of loopholes in this bill for anyone who has what I consider to be good reason to not spay/neuter to be exempted.  I doubt this bill will pass though and even if it is, I worry how or if it will be enforced.  So, sadly, things may remain as they are with many sweet, loving animals euthanized every day.

ORIGINAL: cakana

I disagree. ADOPTING a dog in a lot of places is like the spanish inquisition! No matter what you put down, they find something wrong with your application.

I think that adopting from a good shelter or rescue is more difficult and it should be.  I rescued/adopted Sassy from the shelter and they didn't ask much of anything other than a little money and I had to pick her up at the vet the day she was spayed.  That makes good sense and I'm grateful for that.  If absolutely nothing else is done, I hope that it becomes mandatory that any animal from a shelter or rescue is only adopted out after a spay/neuter. 

Sassy's been a real challenge too.  She's had severe allergies and skin infections and I've probably spent well over $2000 just this last year on vet bills and meds.  She's also had aggression issues with our other dog and so we've had our hands full and even sought the help of a behaviorist.  Most people would've surrendered her or had her euthanized long ago.  Like you, I consider both of my dogs as serious commitments.  Sadly, most people don't.  If it takes legislation to turn things around, then for the sake of dogs and cats sitting in shelters waiting for the end, we shouldn't be so adverse to it.  There are plenty of loopholes in this bill for anyone who has what I consider to be good reason to not spay/neuter to be exempted.  I doubt this bill will pass though and even if it is, I worry how or if it will be enforced.  So, sadly, things may remain as they are with many sweet, loving animals euthanized every day.

I remember when I adopted my dog last year, I filled out the shelter form ,and one of the questions was:

How much would you be willing to spend on your pet, if it developed and illness and needed Vet care?

1.  $25
2. $250
3   $500
4. $ 1000
5.  Anything it too k to get the dog well.

I later, asked one of the workers at the shelter, if anyone but down $25 as an answer.  She said " All the time" ......

The shelters are filled with dogs with Pedigrees,

 
Sorry, I'm just not buying that.  Maybe 10-20 percent at the most and I think that you will find that those dogs came from BYB's or pet stores.  I know our local sheltie rescue will take any sheltie entering a shelter and has a stack of applications an inch thick of people waiting for rescues.
 

Pedigrees,  where did they come from???

Well, ANY dog can have a pedigree.  A mutt can have a pedigree if you're willing to map it out and you know the history of the dog.  What you need to ask is "How close up are the dogs in the pedigree, and are they good dogs?"  Because THAT can tell you a LOT.
 
The Labrador I have has a pedigree. ....He's from a BYB who are (of course) known to breed irresponsibly.  No comformation titles, hunting titles, agility titles...not even a CGC!  A pedigree does not denote quality nor responsibility of a breeder.
 
If you see a dog in a shelter that came in with a pedigree that's GOOD and the parents were Ch NA NAJ UDX HT PT SchH III IPO 2 FH2, the first thing I'd be asking is "Why didn't this dog go back to the breeder?" and the second thing I'd do is CALL that breeder and notify them that they have a dog of their breeding in the shelter!
 
When things go wrong for a family, sometimes they're too lazy to return it to the breeder (because it'd cost THEM money to ship it/bring it back), or the owner of the dog has too much pride/is too ashamed to admit it didn't work out, so rather than face the breeder and read the disappointment on their face, they take it to a shelter and give it to people they don't know and won't have to answer to.

If Santa Cruz County's spay neuter law wasn't working don't you think they would have repealed the law by now, and the law is still functioning today.

What possible reason would they have to repeal it?  Even if it wasn't working as desired or intended, it would still get some spays and neuters.
 
Heck, I think it is gone now, but there was a law on the Texas books for a long, long time that required stores to have a hitching post out front.  The law was still there long after it was needed or followed. 
 
Aside:  I took a driver's class a few years back to get an insurance discount.  The instructor told a story about a previous student who wouldn't talk about his ticket in front of the class, but did so privately.  The ticket was for not having a lantern tied to his horse's tail after dusk.  The student had decided to have his horse jump a stationary police vehicle.  That wasn't a ticketable offense, but the officer came up with the lantern and the judge wouldn't dismiss the ticket without the class.  []

This law has too many flaws and isnt good for anyone.  Dogs are, and will always be by law, considered property.  I can do what I want with my property, right?  I mean, I can sell my house....  I can sell my car... I can sell my computer....  I can sell my dog.  So the US law says.  Also I can fix my house or not fix it.  I can fix my car or not fix it.  I can fix my computer or not fix it.  I can fix my dog or not fix it.  So the US law says.
 
Good thing only ignorance is allowing this bill to get this far.  I am happy to know there are people on this board that are smart enough to be against it.  It cannot be enforced.  It has had to be changed SOO many times.  Funny part is, half the people in CA are fighting against it.  There has been word that the people fighting against will leave.  This is hindering a lot of the choice on if to pass it or not.  If it passes, CA will go into financial problems and will lose citizens.  No state wants that.  Also, lawyers that are against it are already stacking up their fight for the right that in the law books, pets are considered property.  Thus, making people able to do whatever they want with it. 
 
If it passes, we dont have to worry. I doubt it will be in effect for very long.
 
*waits for senseless bashing*
 
 

ORIGINAL: Shadomoon

This law has too many flaws and isnt good for anyone.  Dogs are, and will always be by law, considered property.  I can do what I want with my property, right?  I mean, I can sell my house....  I can sell my car... I can sell my computer....  I can sell my dog.  So the US law says.  Also I can fix my house or not fix it.  I can fix my car or not fix it.  I can fix my computer or not fix it.  I can fix my dog or not fix it.  So the US law says.

Good thing only ignorance is allowing this bill to get this far.  I am happy to know there are people on this board that are smart enough to be against it.  It cannot be enforced.  It has had to be changed SOO many times.  Funny part is, half the people in CA are fighting against it.  There has been word that the people fighting against will leave.  This is hindering a lot of the choice on if to pass it or not.  If it passes, CA will go into financial problems and will lose citizens.  No state wants that.  Also, lawyers that are against it are already stacking up their fight for the right that in the law books, pets are considered property.  Thus, making people able to do whatever they want with it. 

If it passes, we dont have to worry. I doubt it will be in effect for very long.

*waits for senseless bashing*

So if you wanted to toss your dog in a dumpster for instance ( like bringing your car to a junk yard)  , I guess that would be OK by your standards, or did I get lost in your logic someplace?  [&:]

Yeah you did, but that is fairly common.  I am not sure where you pulled toss your dog in a dumpster thing...  Have you ever done it?  I sure hope not.  Seems like a very bad idea.
 
I have never taken a car to a dump yard.  Seems kinda pointless if you ask me.  Arent trade ins better?
 
I said it was by US standards, not by my standards.  My logic has nothing to do with this.  US standards says you can dump your dog, look at strays.  I am pretty sure most of them were house hold pets at one time...  Sad isnt it.  But...  no one to be punished, it must be okay.  This is the US we are talking about, not me.
 
Like I said, senseless bashing.  Please read a bit more carefully before you point fingers.  I think this will cause less "fighting" over the web if people would. 

Take care.