Manditory S/N here are some real numbers.

• Manditory S/N here are some real numbers. timsdat Posted : 4/24/2007 11:06:33 PM [size=3]Here are the statistics from Santa Cruz county from the last 4 years. They don't have anything on-line further back than that.             Intake                Euthanasia's     Euthanasia Rate Year    Cat        Dog      Cat       Dog     Cat            Dog 2006    2,924    2,101    1,666   486      56.97%     23.13% 2005    3,254    2,151    1,712   444      52.61%     20.64% 2004    2,165    1,503    1,051   257      48.54%     17.10% 2003    1,805    1,403       805   225      44.59%     16.04%   They adopted mandatory s/n in the mid 90's.   Looks likes it's really working.[/size] LIKE 11 REPLIES 352 VIEWS LAST POST TIMSDAT Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• rwbeagles Posted : 4/25/2007 8:34:59 AM Lol...yeah...I swear...it just does NOT work. People who think it does are delusional. California..whatta horrible place to be in dogs these days. PeTAFornia. 0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• timsdat Posted : 4/25/2007 11:57:46 AM For those of you that have drank the AR Koolaid and believe that California is in a euthansia crisis and are killing millions of pets each year here are the real statistics from CA.  They show a dramatic decline on the number of euth in CA from 1995 thru 2005.  The AR folks are lying to you!!! [linkhttp://www.theanimalcouncil.com/files/CA_DHS_DogCat_Stats_summary_95-05.pdf]http://www.theanimalcouncil.com/files/CA_DHS_DogCat_Stats_summary_95-05.pdf[/link] 0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• Raja19 Posted : 4/27/2007 3:03:23 AM But some county shelters have a euthanasia rate of up to 80%....so for a county animal shelter having a 23% euthanasia rate is actually better then most. 0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• timsdat Posted : 4/27/2007 7:32:31 AM But you have to look at the numbers behind any statistic.  Most of the euth done in shelters is cats so just comparing a dog statistic to the total is not a good comparison. Beyond that you have to look at the trend.  Notice that the numbers are trending up not down.  So manditory S/N is not decreasing the numbers.   0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• cakana Posted : 4/27/2007 10:57:03 AM Here are the statistics from Santa Cruz county from the last 4 years. They don't have anything on-line further back than that.             Intake                Euthanasia's     Euthanasia Rate Year    Cat        Dog      Cat       Dog     Cat            Dog 2006    2,924    2,101    1,666   486      56.97%     23.13% 2005    3,254    2,151    1,712   444      52.61%     20.64% 2004    2,165    1,503    1,051   257      48.54%     17.10% 2003    1,805    1,403       805   225      44.59%     16.04%   Where do your #s come from Steve?  I couldn't find a table like you have, but I did find the following from the Santa Cruz SPCA link to the Santa Cruz newspaper:   [linkhttp://www.cityonahillpress.com/article.php?id=484]http://www.cityonahillpress.com/article.php?id=484[/link] Though the number of strays in Santa Cruz County has fallen, Santa Cruz County Animal Services statistics show that in 2006, 1,852 cats and 1,387 dogs were found stray, and 1,596 cats and 476 dogs found were euthanized.   These numbers are substantially lower than the ones in the table.  I'm not saying the table is wrong, but if those numbers are provided by an opposition group, it's worth double-checking.   I spent 5 yrs working at the Capitol and dealing with legislation (education-related) and I know how bills can be extremely misleading and how support and opposition groups often have motives that are very different from how they present them.  So, I'm just trying to understand, if we take everyone's personal opinions out of the mix, what are the facts. 0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• timsdat Posted : 4/27/2007 11:40:35 AM Where do your #s come from Steve?   My numbers came from the Santa Cruz animal services web site.    [linkhttp://www.scanimalservices.us/news.asp]http://www.scanimalservices.us/news.asp[/link]   Yes you are right there were 476 dogs euth but there were also 10 puppies.  I combined the dog and puppy, cat and kitten numbers into 1 for each.    For example there were 1590 cats and 76 kittens euth which makes a total 1666.    My intake numbers included all manor in intake stray, surrendered, impounded, Etc.  If I had used just the stray number for intake the euth percentage would be even higher.   Funny how the paper only sited part of the number and not all of it.    What is also strange that in a county where there is no breeding there are still puppies and kittens around.  Boy, that law really works!!!!   Look at the numbers and see if I make any transcription errors.  I found one myself right after posting.  I had calculated a percentage wrong but I went in and fixed it.       0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• timsdat Posted : 4/27/2007 12:13:14 PM I read the article and it is funny how that only tell you what they want. I went back into the number and looked at the number of strays.  Here they are. Strays entering the shelter:              cat      kitten          dog          puppy    2003     940         362          821              79 2004   1318         216          890              53[font=arial]54 2005   2003         488        1378              80 2006   1852         217        1387              44 That sums to: [font=arial][size=2]           Cat          Dog 2003  1302          900 2004  1534          926 2005  2491        1458 2006  2069        1431 Gee and the # of strays is going down according to the article. Now take the number of strays vs euthansia and you come up with this:         Strays           Euth                        Euth Rate           Cat   Dog     Cat    Dog               Cat          Dog 2003 1302   900     805     225          61.83%     25.00% 2004 1534   926   1051     257          68.51%     27.75% 2005 2491 1458   1712     444          68.73%     30.45%[/size][/font] [font=arial][size=2]2006 2069 1431   1666     486          80.52%     33.96% The one number I wish that had published is the number of tags sold.  When laws like this are passed usually the percentage of people that get tags drops significantly.  In other words they just ignore the law. [/size][/font] 0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• cakana Posted : 4/27/2007 12:17:43 PM My numbers came from the Santa Cruz animal services web site.   I had tried to find the link for that but couldn't, so thank you for providing it.  I'm really perplexed why the numbers are rising.  How does a spay/neuter law cause the numbers to rise?  I can see it being ineffective, especially if there's a lack of enforcement, but I can't understand how it'd increase the number of strays/surrenders.  0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• timsdat Posted : 4/27/2007 12:29:37 PM but I can't understand how it'd increase the number of strays/surrenders.   Bottom line it works out this way.   Responsible people take care of their pets.  They vet them, license them, don't let them run loose, don't let them breed indiscriminately.  Irresponsible don't care about containing their pets, neutering their pets, don't license them, and don't care about complying with the S/N laws.  So are these laws are ineffective if they are ignored by the very people that are causing the problem.  Responsible people that follow the law are the ones hurt by it.   Also if you look at numbers from any shelter the numbers of cats euth is much much higher than dogs.  So if cats are really the problem why throw dogs on the fire also.   0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• cakana Posted : 4/27/2007 1:47:29 PM So if cats are really the problem why throw dogs on the fire also.   I completely agree.  Your rationale also makes sense on why it doesn't work.  I should be less naive than others about why and how the statistics can be skewed and altered to misrepresent something, but it still makes me shake my head.  I will be doing more homework on this and certainly voice my opinion.  Just remember that even if this makes it thru all the legislative committees, it still has to be signed by the governor.  He's been pleasantly surprising when it comes to some issues like this. 0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login
• timsdat Posted : 4/27/2007 2:06:40 PM I don't like the fact that adoptable animals are PTS either.  But laws as they are proposing are not the answer and usually have a hidden agenda behind them.  Every place where mandatory S/N has been implemented just isn't working.  Even differential licensing isn't working.    I believe the real solution would be eduction, incentives, and enforcement of existing law.    Shoot if they provided free neuter to all and financial incentives to S/N that would go a long way to finding a solution.  Think about it if they offered $100 and a free neuter if you brought your pet in people would be jumping to bring their pets in.  In the places where low cost S/N is being used it is making a difference.  That though in and of itself isn't enough.  You have to make worth the persons while to do this.   I'm glad I was able to help you understand.   0 LIKE Like Share You have posted to a forum that requires a moderator to approve posts before they are publicly available. Hey, it's way more fun when you sign up or log in Connect With Connect With Sign Up Login