How Humane is the Ottawa Humane Society?

    • Gold Top Dog
    DPU-I highly doubt that Spiritdogs was talking about you. She gave numerous examples of different situations. She is a dog trainer and these are probably situations she has incountered. I can tell you she wouldnt on purpose try to hurt someone's feelings or undermind someone who knew what they were doing & rehabbing a dog.
     
     
    Steve-In an ideal situation, WONDERFUL! My shelter is underfunded, all together we have 2 kennel workers who have to care for 150 dogs and 30 cats (sometimes more) and have to show potential adopters around, 1 manager who deals with the policitical aspect and also with rescues, and about 3 Animal control officers (who are in the field most of the time). Along with that we have about 7 (high guess) of us volunteers. We just cant evaluate every dog who comes in and if the dog growls at someone and shows aggression, he/she will be put to sleep UNLESS a rescue will take them or unless they are a super cute small breed dog. Ideally we could do more, but us 7 volunteers are the ones who temperment test for out of state rescues & out of state adopters.
     
    IMO the couple shouldnt have dropped the dog off because had it not been euthanized that day, it would have been soon there after. Owner surrenders are given NO time at our shelter because no one is looking for them. It is the couple's fault for dropping their dog off at a kill shelter, if they really loved the dog they would have found another way (adopting it out themselves, taking it to a no kill shelter-which is sometimes worse, waiting on a rescue to get room).
     
    I know too that dogs are stressed in the kennel enviroment. I honestly dont know that my dogs would be adopted out if they were ever to face that situation although they are all highly adoptable dogs. They would be so stressed and scared they very well might growl or nip at someone. Then again I wouldnt ever put my dogs in that situation, if I had to get rid of them I would carefully screen applicants and make sure MYSELF that they got a good home. IMO the couple has nothing to complain about. They dumped their dog at a shelter.
     
    You are right, honestly, I see a dog on the side of the road I just let it be. It is horrible to do that but it is even more horrible to let it spend it's last day in a noisy crowded shelter. Nothing against my shelter but I know the dog doesnt stand a chance. I wish I had room/money to save them all but I dont. (Although I did rescue a kitten from downtown but cats are different)
     
    Anyone with 1/2 a brain or heart for their animal wouldnt dump it at a kill shelter. If you surrender your dog, it can be euthanized immediatly. There are situations where someone cant keep their dog but in that case go to Wal Mart or Pet Smart or somewhere and try to find someone to adopt him/her. There are better solutions than surrendering them to a kill shelter.
     
    I feel absolutly no sorrow for the people in NY you were talking about. If they cared so much for the dog they should have adopted it out on their own.

    If it is between killing a dog who someone might be looking for or killing a dog who is acting aggressively and was surrendered by the owner think about what you would do.
     
    Hope that wasnt too harsh but I have no sympathy for the people who surrender their dogs then come back to reclaim and find their dog dead.
     
    I would assume you dont volunteer at a kill shelter so you dont understand how it works....There is no hold period on an OS dog. They are available for euthanasia as soon as the owner signs that piece of paper.
     
     
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    The problem, DPU, with the situation as I see it is that that shelter houses a minute fraction of the animals in need in this area. And they get to pick and choose who they let in. Which is great for those few dogs, but kind of sucks for all the others. They capitlize on their feel-good mission to monopolize a huge proportion of the animal sheltering charity even while sheltering a small number of animals. Very few people have the facts about open-door animal sheltering. They hear "NO KILL!" and just throw money at it while ignoring those bad evil "kill shelters".
     
    Not all open-door shelters are the same. They don't all euth immediately, though those that do I understand why. You've got X number of kennels, and you get X+1 number of dogs in, what else is supposed to happen, and which dog is going to go first-the one who growled at you or the one who's full of licks and wiggles?  But if you've got enough kennel space, with a good foster program or a backup kennel (our shelter runs a boarding kennel and sometimes when the shelter overflows, a few dogs get to take a "vacation" at the boarding kennel), the euthanizing can be kept to a minimum.
     
    Having said that though our shelter is still high-volume and underfunded and unterstaffed. There is one staff person responsible for doing the advanced temperment testing required to implement the "canine-ality" program and so far she simply does not have enough time to spend 3 hours with every dog there, when every day 5 more come in.
     
    So I guess I ask again--what is the solution? Too many dogs, not enough kennel space, not enough volunteers or staff or money. Something has to give.
    • Gold Top Dog
    In a well documented case in New York recently, a couple that owned a dog for several months turned it into a shelter when they learned they were expecting a baby and worried that they couldn't cope with both, but then a few days later reconsidere

    What a couple of prizes these people are. Yeah...the shelter is like a PAWN SHOP...gimme a break. This is why no shelter will believe someone when they say they can handle an aggression problem really, really we can...we promise! Buyer's remorse is real and for some people it kicks in YEARS after they have the dog [:@]
    • Gold Top Dog
    ORIGINAL: mmthomason

    DPU-I highly doubt that Spiritdogs was talking about you. She gave numerous examples of different situations. She is a dog trainer and these are probably situations she has incountered. I can tell you she wouldnt on purpose try to hurt someone's feelings or undermind someone who knew what they were doing & rehabbing a dog.


    Steve-In an ideal situation, WONDERFUL! My shelter is underfunded, all together we have 2 kennel workers who have to care for 150 dogs and 30 cats (sometimes more) and have to show potential adopters around, 1 manager who deals with the policitical aspect and also with rescues, and about 3 Animal control officers (who are in the field most of the time). Along with that we have about 7 (high guess) of us volunteers. We just cant evaluate every dog who comes in and if the dog growls at someone and shows aggression, he/she will be put to sleep UNLESS a rescue will take them or unless they are a super cute small breed dog. Ideally we could do more, but us 7 volunteers are the ones who temperment test for out of state rescues & out of state adopters.

    IMO the couple shouldnt have dropped the dog off because had it not been euthanized that day, it would have been soon there after. Owner surrenders are given NO time at our shelter because no one is looking for them. It is the couple's fault for dropping their dog off at a kill shelter, if they really loved the dog they would have found another way (adopting it out themselves, taking it to a no kill shelter-which is sometimes worse, waiting on a rescue to get room).

    I know too that dogs are stressed in the kennel enviroment. I honestly dont know that my dogs would be adopted out if they were ever to face that situation although they are all highly adoptable dogs. They would be so stressed and scared they very well might growl or nip at someone. Then again I wouldnt ever put my dogs in that situation, if I had to get rid of them I would carefully screen applicants and make sure MYSELF that they got a good home. IMO the couple has nothing to complain about. They dumped their dog at a shelter.

    You are right, honestly, I see a dog on the side of the road I just let it be. It is horrible to do that but it is even more horrible to let it spend it's last day in a noisy crowded shelter. Nothing against my shelter but I know the dog doesnt stand a chance. I wish I had room/money to save them all but I dont. (Although I did rescue a kitten from downtown but cats are different)

    Anyone with 1/2 a brain or heart for their animal wouldnt dump it at a kill shelter. If you surrender your dog, it can be euthanized immediatly. There are situations where someone cant keep their dog but in that case go to Wal Mart or Pet Smart or somewhere and try to find someone to adopt him/her. There are better solutions than surrendering them to a kill shelter.

    I feel absolutly no sorrow for the people in NY you were talking about. If they cared so much for the dog they should have adopted it out on their own.

    If it is between killing a dog who someone might be looking for or killing a dog who is acting aggressively and was surrendered by the owner think about what you would do.

    Hope that wasnt too harsh but I have no sympathy for the people who surrender their dogs then come back to reclaim and find their dog dead.

    I would assume you dont volunteer at a kill shelter so you dont understand how it works....There is no hold period on an OS dog. They are available for euthanasia as soon as the owner signs that piece of paper.






    You are correct, mmthomason.  I didn't recall that DPU is fostering an SA dog, but it wouldn't matter.  Shelter realities are what they are, despite the successes that some adopters and fosterers have.  And, frankly, fostering an SA dog is kind and well-intentioned, but what happens to that dog when he is again taken out of his safe haven and thrust into yet a new home, after having built a bond with the fosterer?  Repeat rehome situations tend to make such dogs regress, sad to say.
    • Gold Top Dog
    The problem, DPU, with the situation as I see it is that that shelter houses a minute fraction of the animals in need in this area. And they get to pick and choose who they let in. Which is great for those few dogs, but kind of sucks for all the others. They capitlize on their feel-good mission to monopolize a huge proportion of the animal sheltering charity even while sheltering a small number of animals. Very few people have the facts about open-door animal sheltering. They hear "NO KILL!" and just throw money at it while ignoring those bad evil "kill shelters".

     
    I saw this EXACT thing happen in the town I used to live in.
     
    This place had a Humane Society and an Animal Control. They were both kill shelters, but the humane society was always a little cleaner and nicer than the city run animal control. Both had policies that they would take in *any* animal that came through the doors. Both had a fairly high kill rate, but the animal load was about equal.
     
    Then, a couple of years ago, the Humane Society decided to become No-Kill. It was all over the newspaper, everyone celebrated it like it was the greatest thing that could ever happen, a huge step for animal welfare, etc. etc.
     
    Well. They then started being EXTREMELY picky about what dogs and cats they would accept. Because they were now no-kill, they only had room for a limited number of animals. They would take in only purebred, young, adoptable animals, designer mutts, and anything they thought they could pass off as a purebred dog. They began charging the most amazing adoption fees- anywhere from $125-$500 dollars, depending on the dog. Because they could get more for purebred dogs, they started labeling mixes as purebreds. I see them put VERY obvious mixes up on Petfinder as purebred dogs all the time, and then charge 3-500 dollars for them.
     
    About a year after they became no-kill, I found a litter of kittens dumped at a park. I called the shelter, and they said they would be glad to take them. I brought them in, and they took one look at them and told me to take them across the street to animal control. They said kittens of that color were so common it wouldn't be worth the effort to try to adopt them out. [&o]
     
    Meanwhile, after the wonderful-amazing-super-good humane society has become no-kill, animal control's shelter has gone straight to hell. It was never the greatest place, always underfinanced and understaffed, but now they are dealing with the overflow of animals from the humane society. Where before the amount of animals between the two places was somewhat even, the humane society now takes in a tenth of the animals it did before, and in addition to picking up strays, animal control now has to deal with all of the humane society's rejects. They are completely overwhelmed. They go from keeping a given animal a week-10 days on average, to keeping them 1-3 days on average. The kennels are crammed and crowded, many of the dogs are sick, they are fed the worst food possible and sometimes not enough of it, and all of the employees have become completely apathetic. They have to be or they'd go nuts.
     
    Even worse is the fact that adoptions at the humane society have gone UP since they started charging extortionate adoption fees. People will pay $400 for the "Puggle" at the nice, happy, no-kill humane society, while the SAME dog, with a $50 adoption fee, would have maybe a day at animal control before it would have to be killed to make room for another. People don't want a dog from the cheap, dirty, "evil" animal control, when they can get an expensive designer dog from the humane society. They get all of the donation money too, since no one wants to support the "evil" kill shelter.
     
    I've been to that kill shelter often, and since the humane society became no-kill, the only people left who adopt from the kill-shelter are extremely rough looking, thuggish ganagbanger types who grab up all of the pit bulls. When I adopted my akita from the shelter last month, I got there early to be the first to get him. There was a line outside of about 5 guys, all after pit bulls. In the 15 minutes it took me to adopt my dog, they left with every pit, staffie, or similar mix in the shelter. One of the guys left with a very sweet looking staffie with a terribly scarred face. It was obvious that dog had been fought. He put a massive chain around the dogs neck and drug it out of the shelter and I wanted to cry because I knew that dog was most likely going striahgt back into the life it came from. That shelter used to have a pretty good adoption process. Now they're just glad to see someone take any of the dogs, for whatever reason. When I adopted my akita they didn't ask a single question about me. They just took my $50, and had me sign a paper saying I'd get him neutered within 30 days. I doubt they even have the resources to enforce their neuter policy in the first place. They used to charge an adoption fee of $70, and would give you a voucher to have the dog spayed or neutered for free. They had to quit doing that because of lack of funding after the humane society became no kill. It's just incredible how many ways this has affected them.
     
    So, yes, shelters becoming no-kill are good for the small handfull of dogs and cats who are considered cute and in demand. For the rest, it can be a death sentence. I know for a fact that it has resulted in MORE euthanazations in that area than there were before. Sadly, I've seen it all first hand.
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I want to understand.  For those that think OHS made the right decision do you also have the opinion that my volunteer work is causing potentially, or absolutely, more harm than good?  Would you advice me, albeit with a heavy heart, to stop spending resources on rehabbing Marvin my foster true SA dog and PTS the dog.  Now I did not choose a foster dog with serious behavioral problem.  That fact became known after the foster dog came into my home.  For those that don't know SA, it is a mental condition that can be managed but it is said the dog will not ever be fully cured and the behavior descriibed by spiritdog is mild in my experience.  I viewed the OHS situation similar to home situation.  This is why I entered this discussion.  After reading the 1st four opinions in this thread I asked myself how could I be wrong in what I am doing.  I am struggling with this issue and I looked to this forum to either affirm my opinion or reshape my opinion. Your opinions do have consequences.  Sometimes a personal situation mirrors the general situation.
    • Gold Top Dog
    DPU, if you have the fortitude for rescue work, it is not wrong.  But, I think that shelters and rescue groups who focus on the, well, on the underdogs, lose perspective about the hundreds of thousands of great dogs who will die in shelters because they could not find a foster home, while you struggle with one dog for months and months.  Perhaps in the same time frame, you could have successfully fostered, and adopted out, three other healthy, stable dogs.  That, of course, does not help when you are confronted with the dog you already have, and feel for.  Since you are managing this dog, why not just manage him for good?  He needs a "forever" home with someone who can do so.  If you give him to an ordinary family, who didn't bargain for a dog with problems, the likelihood is that they will return him, more damaged and insecure than before.  That's why the eventual end for an SA dog is frequently euthanasia.  My boss doesn't even take SA cases in her behavioral practice any more - she refers them on to a vet behaviorist.  It's just too hard a problem for ordinary working families to deal with, and little success - she was getting depressed trying to help them.  I completely agree with what Ratsicle describes as the great tragedy of the no kill movement.  But, I also know that non-profit agencies must survive financially to do any good at all...so the shelters are all between the rock and the proverbial "hard place", too.  I think that low cost, or enforced spay/neuter helps a lot.  Because New England has the best spay/neuter rate in the country, we are able to take in a lot of poor dogs from other parts of the country.  Problem is, that also points to death or tragedy for the Pits, Akitas, Shepherd mixes, etc. in the high kill shelter.  But, my guess is that ordinary families with kids don't want those dogs *anyway*.  So, time to educate the thugs....one thing you can do is ask your legislator to propose non-breed specific dangerous dog legislation with real teeth in it for anyone who allows their dogs to become a danger to the public, or who is involved in dog fighting, and still allows people to own their breed of choice.  I personally like Sue Sternberg's approach of bringing the shelter to the neighborhoods.  Another great idea she had - teach inner city youth to have pulling contests for their dogs, not fighting.  You can still cheer, you can still bet, you can still feel macho and tough, but the dogs don't need to die.
    • Gold Top Dog
    First of all, after reading your post Rat I am so thankful our shelter only adopts sterilized animals out. You come in, fill the paperwork out, and then the dog is sent to the vet by an ACO. Only then are you allowed to pick the dog up. I would be sad for the pitties too. Ours usually end up euthanized (because all of the "thugs" dont want to pay $90 for a sterilized pit bull, and very few people adopt from the shelter anyway) but at least they arent being fought.
     
    DPU- I have NO problem at all with you rehabilitating dogs. I am only say there are tons of sweet, highly adoptable dogs who are being euthanized and the sad fact is the shelters cant save the aggressive ones or the ones with major problems. You are more than ;please do what you will like but again sorry to say all MY efforts are placed on the happy dogs who still mostly end up being euthanized. But honestly I would listen to what spiritdog says. She knows best. I dont know anything about SA.
     
    I have no problem with people who want to take on the "troublesome" fosters. I just know in MY area, the kill shelter has a 65-70% kill rate of NICE, problem free dogs with no issues so sorry but those are the ones I am going to focus on. I understand in different parts of the country they dont have the animal overpopulation problems we have here in the south.
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I want to understand.  For those that think OHS made the right decision do you also have the opinion that my volunteer work is causing potentially, or absolutely, more harm than good?


    This is a dicey issue ethically.

    IMO, it is important to look at the big picture and understand that shelters, unfortunately, do little to address the actual problem, which is overpopulation. Ways to solve overpopulation include boycotting and organizing against pet stores and puppy mills, and educating people. As spiritdogs says, it's great to work to replace fighting with weight pulling. It's great to spread the word that it's really bad (both for selfish reasons and for larger ethical reasons) to get a puppy from a pet store or over the internet. That having a dog in your life is a lifelong decision, and therefore must, must be a selfish and thoughtful one.

    Shelters give people who buy Christmas puppies someplace to put their now-adolescent untrained dog that is guilt free. They wind up being a secondary market for puppy mill dogs, who are raised as livestock and therefore poorly socialized and difficult to housetrain. In this way, shelters wind up cleaning up the *symptoms* of dog overpopulation, but also enable the root causes of dog overpopulation.

    Shelters, IMO, need to realize the volume of the problem and do something that is extremely difficult and painful. It is cruicial to stop focusing on "saving the individual dog" if shelters are going to actually start working toward the ethical imparative of stopping the tremendously ugly problem, which is dog overpopulation.

    Saving The Individual Dog is a model many shelters employ, and it creates fosters like your SA dog and puts a lot of money into rehabilitation and for that matter also creates the Kill/No Kill divide that many people have clearly outlined on this thread. I totally underrstand exactly why shelters adopt this model--the dogs are sentient creatures and each individual dog absolutely deserves our stewardship. That's the whole point, right?

    Unfortunately, it's such a complex issue. Looking at each individual dog, while it seems like exactly the right thing to do, creates real problems in terms of actually solving pet overpopulation. Here is why:

    Pet stores and puppy mills rely on people making emotional decisions about dogs to make huge sales. I would argue that actually solving overpopulation means replacing that impulsive, emotional decision with a clinical, selfish, calculated decision. Instead of saying, "he's soooooooooooooooooo cute! I have to have him!" or "he's sooooooooooooo sad, I have to save him!" every single dog owner should be saying:

    "Okay. I know that having a dog is a lot of work. I have to housetrain, be responsible for behavior, feed the dog and take him to the vet. This dog will keep me up at night, make me late for work, change my social life, and frustrate me. I know this. Now, what kind of dog is exactly the right dog for me? Why do I want a dog? What do I want out of this experience?"

    When shelters orient themselves toward saving dogs, they set people up to make an emotional decision. They set many people up to take exactly the dog they do not want--a dog that is going to be too much work and is not going to give them what they want in return.

    Now, pretend you've gone and made that emotional decision and gotten the timid one that needed the most saving. If you are an average dog owner (remember, people can be so lame about dogs, so heartless), you are going to quickly find that this dog is nothing but bad news and you are going to dump the dog back on the shelter. The shelter has just wasted its resources, and in the meantime created a bad dog experience for many people.

    Remember that dogs are social animals, and they go out into the world a lot. Every single dog is an ambassador of dog ownership. American dogs are different than European dogs, to use an example. They are very poorly behaved and have lots more problems. I would argue that this is because the expectations for good dog behavior are lower. I personally believe that this is because dogs are thought of in such strict emotional terms here. Having a dog, say, at the dog run, that exhibits terrible social behavior, and not doing anything about it because the dog is a shelter dog, has issues, or was "abused," is doing nothing to change this fundamental American mindset about dogs.

    So, and I know that this is getting really long, I don't think it's ethically OK, even though it is completely painful to say this, to do anything that perpetuates this emotional decision making about dogs. This includes, unfortunately, saving every individual dog.

    What I would rather see is nonprofits that organize around an educational principle and actually work to change what dog ownership means in America. These organizations would be fighting for legislation that protects dogs from the get-go. Puppy mills should be illegal. Buying a dog over the internet or in a pet store should be illegal. There should simply be a waiting period placed on aquiring a dog--it's a more important life-or-death choice for most people than buying a gun is.

    These organizations would enable shelters to do more than clean up the terrible endless flow of too many dogs thoughtlessly aquired. They would educate every single potential dog owner about what owning a dog is all about, and what happens to dogs when they are rehomed. They would offer low-cost or no-cost dog training, so that people can enjoy their dogs more. They would help people pick the exact dog they want. The dog that will stay with them forever.

    And as this organization creates more commercials, more happy educated dog owners, and more legislation, the expectations for dog behavior on the street will change. Out-of-control dog behavior will be tolerated less and less, and will be seen as more aberrant. More restaurants and stores will allow dogs. Dogs will actually start to make sense in the fabric of American society--not as objects in the backyard, but as the social companions they are.

    IMO, this kind of actual, large-scale change in which every individual dog is given a respectful start in life can only happen when we, paradoxically, abandon the concept of saving each individual dog. This is not because each individual dog is not important at all, but because the forces devaluing the lives of each individual dog are very great and do actual harm, and because dogs must live with people, as a part of our society. They have evolved for thousands of years to do so, and have no place in the "wild." Either they are pets or they become feral, dangerous pests. They are entirely our responsibility and are firmly part of our society, and we have done too much to devalue them already--from breeding them poorly to neglecting them and not training them to actual abuse--to make every single one of them salvagable at this point.

    I hate that this is true, but I would rather admit it and work toward solving the actual problem than blindly chip away at the symptom.

    These are just my opinions, DPU. Not intended as any sort of slam at all, just answering your question. I don't, unfortunately, have this nonprofit in my back pocket or anything. Just throwing out ideas... I hate pet overpopulation. It's so ugly.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Wow Fisher, I want to come live in the world where you're the benevolent despot!
     
    You know, I really wanted to work with the shelter I volunteer with on developing a more robust education and outreach program. I made all kinds of proposals, sent all kinds of emails, talked to all kinds of people. And in the end, what it came down to is, what we need is people to walk the dogs. Period. Just come and take care of the dogs' basic needs because we're so overwhelmed that's all we can concentrate on. Anything else has to wait until such time as---well, actually never because the tide of dogs will NEVER abate.
     
    Unfortunately I have two large, needy dogs of my own to walk daily and coming to the shelter to just walk dog after dog after pulling, crazy, untrained adolescent dog is just not often possible for me. But in the end, if you think about maybe leaving to go work with another group, the mantra is always "BUT WHAT ABOUT THE DOGS?!?!?" It's not their fault that they're in this situation, right? But it will never change if something more innovative than just giving the dogs the most basic care while they're with us and then trying to adopt them out as quick as possible to whoever walks in the door doesn't happen and isn't welcomed by the people who run the shelter. I think they've gotten tunnel vision in a big way, from being around 40 needy homeless dogs, day in and day out. It's easy for that to happen, and to just totally throw out a large-scale systemic solution if that's going to mean sacrificing the dogs that are living there now as far as volunteer and staff hours.
     
    I am however arriving slowly at the conclusion that I might need to put my energies into another organization, one that's a little bit more forward-thinking. It sucks though because if I do that, I'm not only sending a message to the people who run this shelter (which they do most certainly need to hear), but I am impacting the lives of helpless animals who arrived at the shelter through no fault of their own. And that makes me feel endlessly sh*tty.
    • Bronze
    Just for comparison, a little about our shelters here:

    We have the pound (an open door shelter) that is extremely high-kill.  Large breed dogs are killed the morning they are first available.  We often foster dobes and if you can't get there or get someone else there WAITING at the door at 8 AM when they open (the first day the dog is available), you won't get the dog.  Any dog that growls or snaps is labelled unadoptable and pts, and all pit bulls or high-pit mixes are unadoptable and pts (sad fact, as there have been some REALLY sweet pitties in there that I would have loved to take home :( ). 

    The no-kill shelter, on the other hand, is no better to me.  They don't take pits, dogs with any behavior problems, and usually don't have room for ANY dogs anyway.  They have a decent facility but no turn out area (volunteers walk all the dogs every day).  However, nice dogs, that are not puppies or maybe have arthritis or something mild, DON'T get adopted, and lay in their little 4x3 cage on a concrete cold floor with concrete walls and a wire gate in the front.  They're rarely bathed, don't get out enough everytime they need to use the bathroom, etc.  So what good do they do?  Most dogs get turned away so end up at the kill shelter anyway. 

    In this specific case, I agree with the shelter.  Lhasas (in my experience) can tend to be mean little dogs.  I've been bitten and chased by a couple of them, and I wouldn't trust one for anything (lhasas are the one breed my mom will never foster).  I'd guess that the "food aggression" in this case is more than a little growl (like my cocker mix boy did when we got him, easily fixed in his case), and problem something severe.  The shelter does not know these people, and they can say whatever they want, but that does NOT prove they are responsible and does NOT prove they can handle it.  If they fell in love with this particular dog, why not go to a breed specific rescue and SAVE another lhasa?  Or just another adoptable dog at a local shelter?  Those dogs need their help just as much, or they'll be PTS too.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Lets change the situation here: Lets pretend for a second that this story was a bit different. a couple is driving down the road and sees a lose pitbull/rottie/dobe/ puppy walking down the road with a ragged collar. They take the dog in to the shelter, and tell the officer that if they cannot find his owner they will take him. Well a few days later they call in, and are told the dog is being PTS because he has food agression problems.

    They battled with the shelter and offered to take the dog in anyway.

    Would DPU still be fighting and saying it was wrong to have the dog PTS? I think not.

    The truth of the matter is that there is so much uproar because the shelter PTS a small furry dog. It makes me think though, what kind of family would want to adopt an agressive dog, when they have children? Doesnt seem all that responsible to me.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Original Lizzie Collie
    Would DPU still be fighting and saying it was wrong to have the dog PTS? I think not.

     
    I think so!  Read my posts.  The tests are not reliable.  The degree of aggression was not identified.  AND the family was willing to rehab using professional resources.
     
    Also I did make a comment on identifying specific breeds in this thread on evil dogs and euthanasia.  I think by identifying them here you add to their bad reputation.  The truth of the matter is that OHS made a mistake that generated bad publicity and they are paying for it by reduced funding.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Fisher6000:  I read your statement, walked away for a couple of days and then re-read.  I don#%92t know how to comment on your utopian vision.  The changing of the public mindset, the way shelters operate, and appreciating (accounting term as opposed to depreciating) the value of dog lives is a monumental task and would take extraordinary leadership.  Even applying a phoenix concept or for that matter ‘it takes a village#%92 would be a great effort.  Good shelter management and effectively utilizing a volunteer force takes training and money not to mention again leadership.   Look at the response from the thread that ask for creative ways that you or you see people do that help our little furry friends in shelters.  Look at the response from threads that ask for help for one individual dog.  You can never get away from save the individual dog mentality.  People can#%92t help their emotions, unless you up the ante.
     
    For example, I foster dogs and give them up when they are ready to be given up.  People tell me they can#%92t foster because they get emotionally attached to the dog so therefore they become a foster failure.  In my case I can never become a foster failure because the dog is secondary to the pleasure I get from doing my foster job.   Now, at another time I will describe in detail my foster job and the pleasure I get out of it (its long).  Now who on this forum has repeatedly given the advice of upping the ante and know the timing in order to avoid reactivity?
     
    My point to you is one can not put out a model and expect others to do it.  You have to consciously do the little things that keeps you on the path to the utopian vision.  It sounds like Houndlove is doing just that.  In this thread I pointed out the efforts of PAWS-Chicago with their mission statement of being a no-kill city.  Their claim is that they have made great strides and have the numbers to prove it.  I also pointed out that HSUSA stated the northeastern states have the lowest euthanasia rate in the country because of an aggressive spay/neuter program.  The Colorado region is also making big strides according the Denver Dumb Friends League.  The south is not doing too well and their shelters are so overwhelmed that good shelter management advice is ignored.  My point is people and organizations are currently doing what you state but at a smaller scale.  Even me with my save the individual dog mentality.
     
    My final comment is I do not think you can address a problem unless you define the problem and its scope.  Try finding out or googling stat information on dogs.  If you want to find out how many dogs there are in the US, the numbers you get are 35M, 45M, 55M, or as high as 65M.  Most feel 55M is the number.  How many shelters in the US, 4,000 to 6,000.  What is the error margin here?  How many dogs gets euthanized in a year?  Don#%92t know because the numbers published includes cats.  How many dogs in a household?  1.69, every site seems to agree on that.  How can anyone measure improvements if there is not an accurate starting point.
     
    I appreciate it that you answered my question with a direct answer and did not shrink from it.  But since your answer is not realistic in our world I can not apply it to my personal situation.