Puppy mills

    • Gold Top Dog

    Puppy mills

     Hope it's ok to start a thread myself since I am a new girl around here. Didn't want to take over the petland one though.

     How do people get started with puppy mills? Are they backyard breeders that lucked up and "made" money on breeding their dogs and decide to buy more and breed more until they were no longer classified as BYB but as a puppy mill instead?

    And why oh why are so many people still so clueless to puppy mills and buying petstore pups? Especially when spending $1300 for the doggie in the window! I mean why not go to a responsible breeder? Especially if you have been actively searching for a dog like the lady with the Papillon pup. And if you bought the puppy in the window on an impulse or it was just so cute you had to have it and just happened to have $1300 laying around how about stopping at the pound and look at those babies that have a death sentence if they don't get a home because not too long ago they were the cute puppy in the window.

    Sorry for the rant.Embarrassed

    Your turn!

    • Gold Top Dog

    To your second question, I think people get suckered into it because they don't know better.  They assume that a higher price equals higher quality.  They assume that AKC registration (or even the disreputable registries like APRI) equals higher quality.  When they see "USDA inspected" they assume that means higher quality.  The reality is that price means nothing, any dog can be AKC registered, and often kennels that are "inspected" are worse b/c in many cases you have to own over a certain number of dogs to even require inspection.  Basically people just never bother to learn or do any research and fall for all the marketing tricks.

    • Gold Top Dog

    Lies is right -- that and the fact that most people **assume** that if something is for "sale" in a store it's got to be "ok" and that buying from a breeder is somehow LESS ok because it sounds expensive and risky.  We Americans, in particular, have sold ourselves a real bill of goods (i.e., horse hockey) because we ASSUME that what we see marketed is safe. 

    As to how they get started?  Many ways -- unfortunately in some parts of the country it's cottage industry run amok (and it borders on ethnic/historical reputation that their goods are "superior" somehow).  But it's simply an industry that has taken advantage of hiding behind the law (and there are darned few laws) -- certain areas of the country make it a cheap business (because the weather is easier to keep such things going outside where you don't have to spend a lot of money taking care of your cash 'crop';).

    Often people just don't want to believe anything bad -- it takes an expose (which isn't always blameless either) but even then, people don't want to think this nice honest salesperson in front of them might be a front for something bad.

    They use every trick in the marketing sales book -- get an inferior local vet (who is usually hungry for business because most folks KNOW they're no good) to do "wellness checks" and then offer a "contract" (which makes folks feel EVER so safe) that promises free wellness checks thru this vet for the puppy's first year (IT'S A DEAL!!! It's GOTTA be good!!) and so folks suddenly think they're making this incredibly smart "deal" on this puppy. 

    What they've really done is gotten a dog who's likely not well and they'll feel captive to this vet who is gonna swear there's nothing wrong with the dog.  The 'contract' says they'll give you anothe puppy (almost never "money back" -- and they know folks will be too attached to give it up). 

    It's sad -- but unfortunately many of us in the States LOVE to get "sold" something.  Give us a coupon or an advertising slogan or a pretty store-front and a billboard and we think something is great. 

    There's a puppy mill outlet here in Orlando and they do these random billboards with this cute little chi puppy with lovely slogans like "Pet me!" or "Love me" -- and people drive by it and think "gotta have one".

     

    • Gold Top Dog

    What Callie and Lies said, is echoed by me. It's really frustrating. I absolutely will not patronize any store that sells cats or dogs. I make it a point in life to educate those I come into contact with as best as possible.

    Sometimes I may go too far....I was banned from a pet store after umm "deterring" away their business. Not my fault that their dogs were sickly and most of them had the wrong breed tags on the kennels (my favorite was the "shih tzu" aka schnauzer pup)....plus I knew which vet they were using and they were beyond awful. I wasn't allowed to be in or near their store front. Whoops. That was many years ago though. The store is still there, but I'm no longer living in that state and I'm sure no one would recognize me there now. hmmmm.....

    • Gold Top Dog

     A big thing that appeals to many people I've talked to is availability (they can get a puppy of their choice when they want one) and ability to finance/make payments on their puppy. The Petland that used to be here had stickers on each puppies windows saying "Take me home for just $X/month!. People also assume that breeders who show or work their dogs are very expensive (even though their prices are comparable to or lower than pet stores) and that they don't need such a well bred dog because they "just want a pet".

     And the truth is that for many of the popular breeds, there is a shortage of available puppies from breeders who health test to pet owners, even if the owners were to pursue such a puppy. The pet stores and "BYBs" are fulfilling a need in the market and as long as that is true, there will be pet stores an "BYBs". People may have heard all the pros and cons of going to such sources for a puppy but if that's what is available when they are in the market for a puppy, that is what they are going to get. Getting a purebred puppy or even a known mix is not comparable to going to the shelter and taking an adult dog or a puppy of an unknown mix.

    • Gold Top Dog

    It’s not only dogs that have this problem.  I also refuse to buy any exotic from a BYB or pet shop for similar reason that dogs should not come from there.  It’s the same concept, many people buy on impulse or looking for something cute.  Many pet-shop enployees don't have a clue on proper nutrition or correct houseing for the animals they are selling.  My guinea pigs are rescues.  For example Guinea pigs are born with a full coat and eyes open and can eat hard foods, full miniatures of adults, and often they are taken away from their moms just a few days old and sold to pet shop.  The chances of them dying are at least 50% or greater not to mention how easily they can pick up on upper respiratory problems from living in such small overcrowded places.  They are also social creatures and need to live in groups of two or more but so few people understand their needs.  Yet, most people don’t see that when they look into the cages in the stores.  I’m sure there are many who would not even consider that a rodent could possibly be mistreated and bred with genetic problems that could kill it but the same goes for people looking to buy a dog.  Many people have never been exposed to the truth behind where their pets came from or are even educated about how to care for them and basic essentials for the animals wellbeing.  I'm sure there are people on this very forum, including myself, who at least once bought from a pet shop without even knowing they were doing harm by supporting that pet market.

      

    Another problem I’ve seem with getting a dog from a good breeder or even a rescue is that they have so many requirements that a new dog owner or even an experienced owner may not qualify according to their standards.  People tend to go for convenience over quality.  I’ve had people tell me that looking through ads in the newspaper or stoping by a pet shop was just so much easier. 

      

    As a side note, I’m seeing more large companies like pet-co, petsmart and so on switching over to having adoption centers and free adopting consultations that it’s been helping reduce the numbers of dogs being put down.  At the mall I went to as a teen, there use to be a pet shop but it has now been replaced by the humane society and is doing a great job adopting animals out of all kind, even exotics who would have been turned away at most shelters.

     

    • Gold Top Dog

     Petco got in bed with PETA a couple years ago (hence PETA changing their PetNO campaign to an anti-Petsmart campaign, seemingly without notice). Rumor is they will be phasing out selling most small animals over the next few years. We had a Petco which closed due to lack of business. Now a couple years later they reopened in the same place but it seems to be a different store format from the normal Petco. The only animals they have are rats, mice, goldfish and beta fish and the store is much smaller with more limited products than the old one was. I doubt they will stay in business, as any time I stop by there either no one is shopping there or people are shopping there complaining that it's too expensive, they don't sell pets, they don't sell fish and/or they have a poor selection.

      I have been involved in ferrets for many years, before they were a more common small pet and could be found in every pet store. For the past decade or so, vast majority of pet ferrets are from one of three large scale commercial breeders: Marshall Farms, Path Valley or Triple F. Commercially bred ferrets are altered at extremely young ages (between 3-4 weeks) and because of that, combine with other stress associated with commercial breeding such as early weaning, shipping, excessive caging and exposure to excessive light the vast majority of pet store purchased ferrets will develop an adrenal disease. Adrenal disease is often fatal and almost always means a shortened lifespan and the most common treatment for it costs between $500-2000 dollars.

     There are reputable, private breeders of ferrets but the number of them have drastically declined since the 90s. They simply can't compete with the commercial breeders. Commercially bred ferret kits are available year round due to manipulation of the light cycles that the breeding animals are exposed to. Privately bred ferret kits are only available spring and summer, because ferrets naturally only reproduce in the late winter/early spring. Commercially bred ferrets are extremely cheap compared to privately bred ferrets, especially taking into account that they are already altered. Pet store ferrets can range from $99-300 already altered and privately bred ferrets are usually $100-400 and the owner must alter them at a later age. Altering ferrets in my area has gone from $50-60 ten years ago to $300+ now. And even if a person found it important to buy from a private breeder, there are many states that have no private ferret breeders in them at all - not even one! An added issue is that commercial breeders have put it into people's minds, even most knowledge ferret owner's minds that ferrets have to be descented. Descenting is not at all necessary for them but it's hard for private breeders to fight this misconception while selling ferrets which have not been descented on a contract stating they should not be.

     I bring this up because while I understand that most pet store animals are from commercial breeders, there isn't much which can be done about it. People want these animals as pets and the vast majority of them are supplied by commercial breeders via pet stores. It is similar to the reason people continue to buy petstore puppies but on a much, much larger scale. When people want a cavy or a ferret or a hamster the idea of finding a private breeder if one likely doesn't even enter into their minds. And most people can't avoid shopping at stores which sell small animals, no matter what their feelings on the issue is - even our scaled down Petco sells some small rodents and fish. When people want a cavy or a ferret or a hamster the idea of finding a private breeder if one likely doesn't even enter into their minds.

    • Gold Top Dog

     Wow. Good points AgileGSD. I would have never thought to look into private breeders for rodents. I have owned several hamsters, couple guinea pigs, couple ferrets, and couple birds all from petstores. Luckily all my guys were healthy.

    • Gold Top Dog

    sambob

     Wow. Good points AgileGSD. I would have never thought to look into private breeders for rodents. I have owned several hamsters, couple guinea pigs, couple ferrets, and couple birds all from petstores. Luckily all my guys were healthy.

     

     If your pet store ferrets lived normal lifespans (8-10 years) without developing adrenal disease or insulinoma (especially if they were kibble fed) you are very lucky for sure! My last pet store ferret had adrenal disease before she was two and died before she turned five. Before I fed them a raw diet, nearly all of my ferrets privately or commercially bred developed insulinoma between 4 and 6, if they didn't die of or develop other issues before that. Many of the more attractive markings in ferrets are actually caused by a genetic disorder which can cause deafness and also affects the heart, immune system, digestive tract and such ferrets rarely live past five or six. Ferrets are traditionally vaccinated yearly or rabies and distemper but have a startling number of reactions to vaccines. Shortened lifespans and serious health issues is, very sadly the norm with pet ferrets in the US and Canada in modern times :(

     It is seems easier to find private breeders of cavies, rabbits and in some places rats and chinchillas than for other small pets. With most, you're lucky to find someone within driving distance.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I've also helped a little in reptile rescue as well. I would have never thought there was a problem if I had not been a volunteer at the zoo. Almost weekly people would try to "donate" their odd pet to the zoo and of course the zoo would reject almost all of them. I had a couple iguanas I took from people who just wanted to get ride of them and same with a few of snakes, turtles, bearded dragon and even my hedgehog came from someone trying to pawn it off to the zoo. One of the poor iguanas I took in was in such bad shape that I had to take him to a special reptile vet but he was so far mistreated that he didn't live another year. Then there are the birds. I'm not really much of a bird person when it comes to owning one but many do end up in desperate need of homes.

    I'm not saying everyone should adopt, although I do strongly encourage it. I think it's fine wanting to buy a pet from a breeder, I just think people should think it through from the beginning to end when choosing a pet and who they choose to get it from. Put health and care first is all I really ask of people when taking a life into their home.
    • Gold Top Dog

     Sometimes I think people like to numb themselves into thinking the best of the world.  That, the puppies in the window were created with love, are healthy, and came from a good place.  Just like people would like to think the beef they are eating came from cows that roamed free on massive acreage, eating fresh food, and were not pumped full of chemicals and growth hormones.  That, their new sneakers and jeans weren't made by poor, misused, underpaid sweatshop workers in another country.  That, the radiation from all the high tech gadgets we surround ourselves with really is perfectly safe.  That its okay to drown pesky insects in bugs in poison because they are only soulless bugs so it is alright to kill them by the hundreds.  After all, ignorance is bliss and a free conscious.