Should Chow Chow be bread?

ORIGINAL: TH


Many designer breeds which are mutts have extremely high demand.  If you are okay with breeding mutts and designer breeds then my question was not aimed at you. 

 
They were not in demand before the 'breeders' started breeding them and charged thousands of dollars and marketed them as 'in demand' to create the demand. There is a difference.

ORIGINAL: glenmar

 When you are breeding for money you are breeding for money and nothing else and don't particularly care about the genetic, or otherwise, health of the dogs involved.

 
If breeders in general did not charge a fee for a dog I would believe this statement. But breeders, no matter how responsible or how great a contributer their dogs are to the breed standard, always charge money. When breeders start giving dogs away or charge the same amount for them as a shelter adoption fee then I will consider the above statement a reality.

TH....nah you didn't read my post []. Since you missed the "ethical qualifications" part which you even pulled out to quote, which renders your counter on Pits and DD's kinda moot. But that's okay....no big

Ark...do purebred rescues and shelters...charge for a dog? Why do they charge you? No one wanted the dog and that's why it's there...why don't they give them away to anyone willing to take them?

So then if I was ok with breeding my Pharaoh hound to a Great Dane and calling the pups "Great Pharaohs" that's responsible, because somewhere out there someone wants a big royal goofball of a dog?  As long as they are healthy dogs?
 
Or if someone wants a toy breed but smaller...say 6-8lbs instead of 10, it's ok to sell that dog for $1200 as long as the parents are healthy?
 
I don't buy it, won't buy it, can't understand it.

And still no one has shown me a breeder of mutts who does all of the quality-assurance that really good reputible purebred breeders do.

South East Guide Dogs for the Blind.

They regularly breed Lab/Golden X's.

ORIGINAL: jenns
I do not believe it is ok to breed mutts, regardless of how healthy they are.  Designer dogs are catered towrad the ignorant individual.  I'd rather see these people do a little reading or talk to breeders or rescue groups and get educated than encourage the breeding of "healthy" mutts that will end up in shelters due to the irresponsible, uneducated owners.

This is a good example of the stance that I do not understand.  People who buy designer breeds are doing the same thing someone who buys a pure breed for a pet are.  They are buying them based on known looks and temperment.  I do not think that designer dogs catered toward ignorant as you claim.  I think they are being breed to fill a demand the same as pure breed dogs.  As others have pointed out shelters are full of pure breeds as well as mutts.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

Ark...do purebred rescues and shelters...charge for a dog? Why do they charge you? No one wanted the dog and that's why it's there...why don't they give them away to anyone willing to take them?

 
Yes they do. They charge what I consider to be resonable adoption fees for the care of a homeless animal. They are doing a favor by taking in rescuses that people buy from breeders and then decide they don't want.. Breeders charge, what I feel to be extreme amounts of money for dogs that have a nice body structure or conform to a breed standard. I'm sorry but no dog, no matter how well bred, is absolved of health problems. So although I understand wanting to breed healthy dogs, there is NO GUARENTEE  that a well-bred dog won't get sick. That is an unachievable expectation.

ORIGINAL: ark3
I have a mutt. I love mutts.

I do, too. I have 2 of them.

But I guess my confusion is that people whose dogs accidentially get knocked up and produce mutts, who often times end of being healthy... how is that really different than responsible breeders who willingly breed their dogs and still risk people buying the dogs, deciding they no longer want them and bringing them back to the breeder or to a shelter. The breeder is then still responsible for a unwanted puppy.

Because the responsible breeder takes that dog back and takes responsibility for it. Responsible breeders make their buyers sign a contract that disallows the dog being taken to a shelter. 

When I was looking for dogs on Petfinder... there were more purebred dogs than mutts up for adoption... 

I'm afraid that's because the majority of mutts don't make it to petfinder.


ANY of those purebreds could have been high-quality dogs. They aren't always returned to the breeder. I guess that's where I get concerned about overpopulation.


Still... blaming breeders for the irresponsible behavior of dog owners is like blaming Ford for a bad driver. The vast majority of unwanted dogs (those contributing to overpopulation) are mutts.

I have a mutt. I love mutts. I guess I like "accidents". But my mutt is perfectly healthy and I have no intention of showing him (obviously). {snip}

When I was looking for dogs on Petfinder... there were more purebred dogs than mutts up for adoption... not to mention the breed-specific rescue leagues dogs. ANY of those purebreds could have been high-quality dogs. They aren't always returned to the breeder. I guess that's where I get concerned about overpopulation.

 
Uhm, I'd venture you _think_ your dog is perfectly healthy.  We had a BYB lab for many years.  We thought she was healty until we had her hips xrayed at 7 or 8.  Took her to one of the top ortho vets in the state.  He watched her walk and thought she might have a slight bit of hip displasia.  Xrays showed severe CHD.   She was in such good shape and had wonderful muscle structure, it was hard to tell how bad her hips were.  Big difference on what we could/could not do with her.  My point being unless you've done xrays, blood tests, eye exams (by an eye vet, not you regular vet), etc, you don't know if you're dog really is healthy. 
 
There are several diseases in basenjis that don't crop up until the dog is over 10 years old.  I have a 9 and a 10 year old basenji.  Are they healthy?  Well, I know the hips are good, I know they eyes checked out okay 2 years ago, I know they don't have Fanconi today.  The hips won't change, but they may end up with PRA in 2 years.  So, I keep testing.  And plan on getting the DNA testing for Fanconi next year.  (It's brand new test as of a month or so ago.)
 
As far as more purebreeds on petfinder, that's misleading.  When I type in "basenji" sorted by nearest dogs first, I have 25 dogs listed.  Two, possibly three, dogs of those 25 are what I would call basenjis.  The others are possible basenji mixes.  So, to say there are really that many purebreds on petfinder is not true.

Here's one example of why good breeders charge so much:
 
[linkhttp://www.geocities.com/rugosab/Prices.htm]http://www.geocities.com/rugosab/Prices.htm[/link]

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Posts: 7795
From: DFW area, TX
Status: offline TH....nah you didn't read my post . Since you missed the "ethical qualifications" part which you even pulled out to quote, which renders your counter on Pits and DD's kinda moot. But that's okay....no big

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

TH....nah you didn't read my post []. Since you missed the "ethical qualifications" part which you even pulled out to quote, which renders your counter on Pits and DD's kinda moot. But that's okay....no big

I did read your post and did not miss the part about ethical qualifications.  It is just that I do not agree with all of your points.  Please stop calling me a liar.  Thanks!

Breeders charge, what I feel to be extreme amounts of money for dogs that have a nice body structure or conform to a breed standard.

 
Ah I see now where you are coming from...many things I could say...but...
 
I will offer that this isn't really related to the topic here...and tho it's been done many times before...perhaps starting a new thread to see why breeders charge what they do could help you out.
 
That's assuming it's something you are curious about and not simply something you already have an opinion on and are fine with that.

ORIGINAL: TH

ORIGINAL: jenns
I do not believe it is ok to breed mutts, regardless of how healthy they are.  Designer dogs are catered towrad the ignorant individual.  I'd rather see these people do a little reading or talk to breeders or rescue groups and get educated than encourage the breeding of "healthy" mutts that will end up in shelters due to the irresponsible, uneducated owners.

This is a good example of the stance that I do not understand.  People who buy designer breeds are doing the same thing someone who buys a pure breed for a pet are.  They are buying them based on known looks and temperment.  I do not think that designer dogs catered toward ignorant as you claim.  I think they are being breed to fill a demand the same as pure breed dogs.  As others have pointed out shelters are full of pure breeds as well as mutts.

 
So you are saying that paying $1500 for a puppy that you have no idea what it will be like - will it's size, temperment, coat, activity level be more like a poodle? or a cocker spaniel? - is the same as paying $500 for a carefully bred dog who turned out almost exactly as expected according to breed standard?
 
People are not buying them for looks and temperment.  They are buying them because its a fad and because they are buying into the marketing hype. Besides, you have no idea what kind of looks and temperment they will have, becaues they do not breed true!  Smart people who want a dog for specific looks and temperment do not buy a mixed breed puppy! 

ORIGINAL: Xerxes
So then if I was ok with breeding my Pharaoh hound to a Great Dane and calling the pups "Great Pharaohs" that's responsible, because somewhere out there someone wants a big royal goofball of a dog?  As long as they are healthy dogs?

Of course it is!  At least as responsible as breeding either a Pharaoh hound or a Great Dane.  I can not understand how anyone would think different.  That is the whole point of the thread.  I thought maybe there was something I am missing. 

Why is it only ethical to breed dogs that are AKC  recognized dogs?  Does that mean that any new breed is unethical?  When did this rule start and are any breeds created after that date unethical?  Please I am really trying to understand this line of thinking.