President Obama's Speech in Ghana

I took my full time job based on the benefits offered (not the salary).  DH is shopping around for jobs right now and has already turned down three salaried jobs because of the crappy health coverage.  Not sure how much more emphesis we could place on good coverage...

To me, security (job security, good health coverage, life insurance, retirement funds...) is more imporant than the paycheck.

aerial1313

Why in the world does the government think it's their place to force people to buy insurance if they don't want it?  Whatever happened to freedom?  I'm serious...this proposal from the HOR is absolutely ridiculous.

Well, because if these people don't have health insurance, and they get into some sort of catrastrophic situation where they need $$$$$$$$ medical care that they can't pay for, who is going to foot the bill? The government. As far as I know, your HSA won't cover you if you need care that is more expensive than what you have in your account.

Yes, it's government infringement of free choice, but (IMO at least) it's reasonable when said free choice could be detrimental to the government and society as a whole (since we would end up paying those medical costs through higher taxes).

Though personally, I think they really need to work on fixing the health insurance system before they start forcing people to buy into it.

aerial1313

  Why in the world does the government think it's their place to force people to buy insurance if they don't want it?  Whatever happened to freedom? 

Not that I'm a fan of big government by any means, but sometimes people  have to be protected from their own stupidity.  That's why we have seat belt laws and laws prohibiting people from tearing down the highway with a cell phone plastered to their ear. I'm all for giving someone the choice to have insurance or not,  as long as that person can prove that he/she is able to cover the cost of whatever situation they cause for themselves or somebody else. If people choose not to have insurance and they get into an accident that's going to result in spending the remainder of their days as a turnip, they need to be able to pay for that IMO.

Joyce

Cita

Well, because if these people don't have health insurance, and they get into some sort of catrastrophic situation where they need $$$$$$$$ medical care that they can't pay for, who is going to foot the bill?

Then they should have to pay for it, or their families.  Happens all the time (out of pocket medical expenses).

Cita

As far as I know, your HSA won't cover you if you need care that is more expensive than what you have in your account.

No, the funds I contribute to my HSA go towards the deductible attached to my insurance plan.  If my medical costs exceed the deductible, that's when the insurance kicks in.  You must have a high-deductible insurance plan (low monthly premiums) attached to an HSA.

aerial1313

Then they should have to pay for it, or their families.  Happens all the time (out of pocket medical expenses).

The problem is that very few people, or their families, are able to pay out of pocket for catastrophic medical expenses ... and it doesn't have to be a whole lot these days to reach catastrophic proportions.  I don't have a problem contributing toward coverage for people who are uninsured because they can't afford it on their own and their jobs don't offer it, but I'd be pretty ticked off to be expected to shell out for someone who *chose* not to have insurance.

Joyce

Fuzzy, your answer is in your own post and I don't know if you realized it. Rather than having the govt enforce a seatbelt law, let insurance companies deny a claim if a seatbelt was not worn. That's more fair. Life has a way of rewarding stupidity with death. Hopefully, before the stupod can procreate, hence the Darwin Awards, sometimes awarded posthumously, for people that died from their own stupidity before they could raise another generation of stupid people, thereby, improving the species of Man.

fuzzy_dogs_mom

The problem is that very few people, or their families, are able to pay out of pocket for catastrophic medical expenses

Well, if people had to re-examine their choices because there would be no government assistence, then perhaps more people would opt to buy insurance, and perhaps more companies would then be able to offer more affordable competitive rates.  That is how the free market works.

Ron, I love the Darwin Awards!  Very entertaining stuff.  My favorite radio talk show host, Neal Boortz, loves to tell DRT stories (dead right there), where some stupid criminal takes the, as he says it, "eternal celestial dirt nap" because they were caught in the act and suffered the consquences of their poor decisions.  Love it!

ron2

 Rather than having the govt enforce a seatbelt law, let insurance companies deny a claim if a seatbelt was not worn. That's more fair.

It might seem more fair on the surface, but people who are too stupid to buckle themselves in aren't going to buckle their kids in either.  Should we just let the kids get splattered all over the freeway and then say "Oh well. I guess we'll just deny that claim?"

Joyce

I like how so many people automatically assume they will have to pay a ton more for socialized health care.  Hello, we are already paying out the wazoo!

Mandatory health insurance....still a stupid idea, IMO.

Liesje

Mandatory health insurance....still a stupid idea, IMO.

Well, that's exactly what the proposed bill that came out this week will require.

Liesje

I like how so many people automatically assume they will have to pay a ton more for socialized health care.  Hello, we are already paying out the wazoo!

You might not, but many employers will.  The new bill would require a surtax on all people making over a certain amount of money.  The politicians won't tell you this, but a large number of small businesses are set up as Subchapter S Corporations.  My company is one of them, so I know quite a bit about this.  With an S Corp, company net profits are reported on the stockholders' personal tax returns.  Therefore any company profits are calculated as personal income as far as the IRS is concerned, and voila! you have people who really don't make that much in annual salary that now are considered "rich" because of their company's profits.  Raise the tax liability on a company and you start losing jobs.

fuzzy_dogs_mom

ron2

 Rather than having the govt enforce a seatbelt law, let insurance companies deny a claim if a seatbelt was not worn. That's more fair.

It might seem more fair on the surface, but people who are too stupid to buckle themselves in aren't going to buckle their kids in either.  Should we just let the kids get splattered all over the freeway and then say "Oh well. I guess we'll just deny that claim?"

Joyce

*Very* good point, Joyce.

aerial1313

Liesje

Mandatory health insurance....still a stupid idea, IMO.

Well, that's exactly what the proposed bill that came out this week will require.

Liesje

I like how so many people automatically assume they will have to pay a ton more for socialized health care.  Hello, we are already paying out the wazoo!

You might not, but many employers will.  The new bill would require a surtax on all people making over a certain amount of money.

Again, I'm talking about socialized health care, not the mandatory crap bill (which I do not agree with).

aerial1313

Raise the tax liability on a company and you start losing jobs.

I'm not quite sure what you are saying. Is your argument that the Health Care System will cost companies more? I don't know the plan he is proposing, but I know in our system the revenues are generated by income tax, so the financial burden is lifted off the business'. That's why it's not free health care. You pay for it out of your pay check. Many companies in Canada actually enhance their health benefits with dental plans, prescription plans etc. 

My husband owned his own business (small) for many years. We never had dental, Rx or anything other than the gov't Health Care. So having to pay all the extras out of pocket, I would take health benefits over a larger pay cheque any day.

To say people should just pay or suck it up, is just not reality for a lot of Americans. I remember reading the number of people who go to emerg, get a Rx and either never get it filled or never refilled because they have no money. Check it out. It is staggering. There are, like it or not, many, many people who cannot beg or borrow enough money for an anti-biotic. What are you going to do with these people. Let them all die because they are poor?

You pay for it one way or the other anyways. 

Joyce, I suppose that's where you and I differ. I don't wish to pay for a nanny-state. By the way, I buckle my seatbelt every time.If I had a motorcycle, I would wear a helmet. Why? Because I watch motorcycle racing once in a while. I have seen a guy lay his bike down at 120 mph, slide across the pavement and into the grass and walk away. His helmet is scarred up and he's mad that he's out of the raise but he is walking away.

People too stupid to buckle up their kids shouldn't be having kids.

But I get your point, shouldn't there be a way to protect the kids from the stupidity of their parents? Well, you can't legislate morality or smartness. And seatbelt, or not, people are still leaving their kids in hot cars in spite of laws against it. Cases recently where the child has the required seatbelt on, left sitting in a stopped car where the outside temp is approaching 100 F. Like Ron White said, you can have plastic surgery and change your looks, you can exercise and change your body, you can read and change your mind, but you can't fix stupid.

If I knew how to make people smart, I would do it.