Dogs left in cars!

ORIGINAL: TH

I find this conclusion highly suspect.  My car has never been 120 inside when the outside temp is 72.  I wonder what conditions they used to get a car that hot on a 72 degree day.  A dog will be fine in a car for a few minutes (always crack open your windows).  Anyone who has ever had to fill up the gas tank has done this  I am not advocating leaving dogs in cars but 5 to 10 minutes will be fine..

Leaving the car running sounds like a really bad idea.  It is not only illegal in many places it is not safe.  .

When you measured the temperature inside your car on this 72 degree day and found it was not 120 degrees, how hot was it?

Paula

What happens if the engine stalls, from a broken fan belt, or some other malfunction of the air conditioner?

 
i guess this is possible, but if i had a crappy car i wouldn't risk it. If something crazy happened and my nice car decided to go nuts, my dog would probably live anyway, because i wouldn't leave him in the car for more than five minutes-- AC or not. end of story.

ORIGINAL: polarexpress

I have gone into a store and had an owner paged and walked them back to the car[:@] and I staked out a car with someone else at a hot ballfield to see if it was a kid drop off or someone staying for the game. Yeah, he was staying for the game and didn't appreciate the woman (who helped run the league!) saying anything about his dog. "Hello, local police???" [] 

Once I helped someone unlock a car with a golden x in it to give him water. She had a bowl, I had a bottle of water and the dog was very sweet.

You might find this info on temperatures in parked cars published in Pediatrics: The Official Journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics  helpful. I find that when you can cite an official-sounding journal it stumps people who deny it gets "too hot" in their car. [sm=devil.gif]  Basically, they parked cars in the sun on a clear day and tracked the temps to see if cars get too hot even on days when temps seemed mild. I have clipped from their abstract which can be found at:
[linkhttp://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/1/e109]http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/1/e109[/link]

Heat Stress From Enclosed Vehicles: Moderate Ambient Temperatures Cause Significant Temperature Rise in Enclosed Vehicles
Catherine McLaren, MD*, Jan Null, CCM and James Quinn, MD*

* Division of Emergency Medicine, Stanford University, Palo Alto, California
Department of Geoscience, San Francisco State University, San Francisco, California
 
......We demonstrated that on sunny days, even when the ambient temperature is mild or relatively cool, there is rapid and significant heating of the interior of vehicles. On days when the ambient temperature was 72°F, we showed that the internal vehicle temperature can reach 117°F within 60 minutes, with 80% of the temperature rise occurring in the first 30 minutes. In general, after 60 minutes, one can expect an 40°F increase in internal temperatures for ambient temperatures spanning 72 to 96°F, putting children and pets at significant risk. We also determined that cracking open windows is not effective in decreasing either the rate of heat rise or the maximum temperature attained.

So take whatever the outside temp is and add 40 degrees in a hour---most (80%) of which happens in the first 30 minutes or less and cracking the windows a couple of inches doesn't really help. Running the a/c (and shutting it off) before leaving the car doesn't help much either unless you are only gone for five minutes.

  The effect of air conditioning the vehicle before start of measurements was negligible. In preliminary measurements, the vehicle consistently reached ambient temperatures within 5 minutes of the air conditioning's being turning off and then would heat up at a similar rate to non–air-conditioned cases.

Boy I get geeky sometimes with these answers[8|]

The government tests that I have read and are repeated daily on XM radio is 19 degrees per 20 minutes.

I only leave Lucy in the car if I am going to be away for 10 minutes or less. If it is over 65 degrees I turn the air on with my remote starter. I wouldn't ever leave the keys in because Lucy will bump the shifter, but with the remote starter she can't put it in gear and the car cannot be stolen because of the safety features. Remote starters are great for this sort of thing. The engine and the heater/air can run, but it cannot be put into gear unless you [put the key in the ignition.

I had just that situation this weekend on our way back from a camping trip. My husband left with the camper a few hours before so he couldn't stop with us to help me tag-team the dog & the kids. I had to leave Lucy in the car while I ran my kids inside to use the bathroom because dogs are not allowed in the convenience store. I took out the keys, locked the car then turned on the engine & air with the remote starter. The car is secure and even if someone broke in, they wouldn't be able to put the car in gear and drive it because there were no keys in the ignition.

ORIGINAL: TH

I find this conclusion highly suspect.  My car has never been 120 inside when the outside temp is 72.  I wonder what conditions they used to get a car that hot on a 72 degree day.  A dog will be fine in a car for a few minutes (always crack open your windows).  Anyone who has ever had to fill up the gas tank has done this

Leaving the car running sounds like a really bad idea.  It is not only illegal in many places it is not safe.  .

 
Here is info on the conditions and how they obtained the data.
 

 
Study Design
This was an observational study in which we measured the interior vehicle temperature on 16 different cloud-free days between May 16 and August 8, 2002, in Fremont, California. Ambient temperatures ranged from 72 to 96°F. The vehicle was parked in full sun, oriented 45 degrees to the sun#%92s rays to minimize direct sunlight through the windshield. Internal vehicle temperature was measured continuously from time 0 to 1 hour. Temperature was recorded at time 0 and every 5 minutes for 1 hour. The vehicle was a dark-blue 2000 Honda Accord with medium-gray interior and without tinted windows. Recordings were made with closed windows on 16 different days. On 2 of these days, recordings were made first with the windows closed. Then the doors were opened to return the vehicle to ambient temperature, and a second hour of measurements was made with the windows cracked 1.5 inches. It was ensured that no significant change in ambient temperature occurred during these 2 hours.
Data Collection
Ambient temperature was recorded continuously with a Davis Instruments Vantage Pro Sensor Suite. Wireless temperature sensors were placed in the test vehicles in the rear passenger section 15 inches above the seat, in the shade and not in direct contact with any part of the car. The temperature sensors had a resolution of 1°F and accuracy of ±1°F. All recorded data were transmitted to the Vantage Pro base station.

 
Please note that the sensors were in the shade and not in contact with the seat.
 
Yes, five minutes in a car isn't deadly---its when five stretches to 15 stretches to 30....
 
BTW I honestly can't tell how hot it gets inside my car---after a certain point all I can tell you is it is too hot and I don't want to put both hands on the steering wheel. [] 
 

ORIGINAL: paulaedwina

They wouldn't die instantaneously from heat stroke the second they stopped panting, no. I think between my friend the nurse and my tech experience we would have saved the dogs.  I think it was a reasonable threshold for causing destruction on someone's vehicle. We'd called the police and were awaiting their arrival with this secondary plan in mind.

Paula

True, the dog wouldn't  die instantly from heatstroke when they stop panting.  It would probably take a bit of time measured in minutes, but the animal   would already have started  having damage to internal organs and the brain. Unless you had a emergency Vet within a few minutes, I would doubt that the dog would have survived.

http://dogs.about.com/cs/generalcare/a/heatstroke.htm

 eople could tell if things were extremely hot long before we had thermometers.  I am not saying they did not get the results they claim.  Only that I am curious how they managed it.   I am guessing black car with black interior, cloudless days..  It might depend on what surface the car was parked on.  There are many factors.  I am not trying to diminish the warning just sharing my VERY UNSCIENTIFIC personal experience has been a little different but my car is light so that may make a big difference.    In hindsight I wish I had not mentioned it because it is not really the message I want to send.  It is good for people to know that their car can get this hot under certain conditions.

I am not trying to advocate leaving dogs in cars for more then a few minutes with or without the engine running.

3. Use sense. I know, despite our planning, there is going to be a time you dog is going to be stuck in your car long enough for you to do a thing - whatever. I lock the car with the spare key, leave the engine running and the AC on, and I'm still just running in to get something.

Leaving the car running is against the law in Maryland.  It is not safe.  If your vehicle is stolen you will be responsible for any damage done with your vehicle.  Not a very good idea.

ORIGINAL: polarexpress

ORIGINAL: TH

I find this conclusion highly suspect.  My car has never been 120 inside when the outside temp is 72.  I wonder what conditions they used to get a car that hot on a 72 degree day.  A dog will be fine in a car for a few minutes (always crack open your windows).  Anyone who has ever had to fill up the gas tank has done this

Leaving the car running sounds like a really bad idea.  It is not only illegal in many places it is not safe.  .

Here is info on the conditions and how they obtained the data.

 
Study Design
This was an observational study in which we measured the interior vehicle temperature on 16 different cloud-free days between May 16 and August 8, 2002, in Fremont, California. Ambient temperatures ranged from 72 to 96°F. The vehicle was parked in full sun, oriented 45 degrees to the sun's rays to minimize direct sunlight through the windshield. Internal vehicle temperature was measured continuously from time 0 to 1 hour. Temperature was recorded at time 0 and every 5 minutes for 1 hour. The vehicle was a dark-blue 2000 Honda Accord with medium-gray interior and without tinted windows. Recordings were made with closed windows on 16 different days. On 2 of these days, recordings were made first with the windows closed. Then the doors were opened to return the vehicle to ambient temperature, and a second hour of measurements was made with the windows cracked 1.5 inches. It was ensured that no significant change in ambient temperature occurred during these 2 hours.
Data Collection
Ambient temperature was recorded continuously with a Davis Instruments Vantage Pro Sensor Suite. Wireless temperature sensors were placed in the test vehicles in the rear passenger section 15 inches above the seat, in the shade and not in direct contact with any part of the car. The temperature sensors had a resolution of 1°F and accuracy of ±1°F. All recorded data were transmitted to the Vantage Pro base station.

Please note that the sensors were in the shade and not in contact with the seat.

Yes, five minutes in a car isn't deadly---its when five stretches to 15 stretches to 30....

BTW I honestly can't tell how hot it gets inside my car---after a certain point all I can tell you is it is too hot and I don't want to put both hands on the steering wheel. [] 

It might be an interesting experiment to sit in your  car on a hot day, with the windows closed or even cracked and see how long you can tolerate the heat.

ORIGINAL: RidgebackGermansShep

What happens if the engine stalls, from a broken fan belt, or some other malfunction of the air conditioner?

i guess this is possible, but if i had a crappy car i wouldn't risk it. If something crazy happened and my nice car decided to go nuts, my dog would probably live anyway, because i wouldn't leave him in the car for more than five minutes-- AC or not. end of story.

You beat me to it, but pretty much what you said. It's a moot point because I'd have only left my dogs in my air conditioned car because I absolutely HAD do to a thing, and that thing was only a few minutes long.  Frankly, if I was in town and had to face some long dog-in-car time I'd call someone to come get my car or, if I could, swing by my vets and board my dogs.

Paula

Leaving the car running is agaist the law in Maryland.  It is not safe.  If your vehicle is stolen you will be responsible for any damage done with your vehicle.  Not a very good idea.

Is it illegal even with remote start devices? I have one and I LOVE it. The car CANNOT be driven without the keys in the ignition - even if it is running. The engine will die if you apply the brake or put it in gear without a key in the ignition. And you can't forget and leave the car running all day. It times out and turns the engine off after 20 minutes. With kids it's a godsend. I could start the locked car remotely from the house or while paying for my items at the store and the car and car seats would be comfortable by the time we got into it. No more standing in a hot parking lot waiting for the car seats to cool down or worrying about how cold the baby is getting in that frozen car seat.

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8
The government tests that I have read and are repeated daily on XM radio is 19 degrees per 20 minutes.

 
That looks like it fits with the study I  read...BTW I wasn't trying to bicker with you [] I hadn't seen your post yet.
 
The scary/crazy thing when you look at the numbers in the abstract is that although the temp may go up about 20 in 20 and 40 degrees in an hour---it is NOT going up at a rate of one degree a minute or less. The temp jumps quickly at the first few intervals (5, 10, 15 and 20) especially for the lower temps....and then the rate of increase slows in the second half of the hour.
 
I can't figure out how to past the chart here[] so here's a link just to the chart.
[linkhttp://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/1/e109/F3]http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/1/e109/F3[/link]

So true!

You are probably wondering why I am posting so often regarding the danger of heat stroke.  I have lived in the south for about 30 years, both in Miami and Atlanta.  Every year there are local  TV and newspaper accounts regarding   children and pets that are left in cars, " for just a short time", according to the police reports, that wind up dead from heat stroke.  Just in Georgia, there have been 4 such child fatalities in the last week alone. 

Great point Bob but I know I park where I can see the car and am only to get one thing like milk.

ORIGINAL: polarexpress

ORIGINAL: Bobsk8
The government tests that I have read and are repeated daily on XM radio is 19 degrees per 20 minutes.

That looks like it fits with the study I  read...BTW I wasn't trying to bicker with you [] I hadn't seen your post yet.

The scary/crazy thing when you look at the numbers in the abstract is that although the temp may go up about 20 in 20 and 40 degrees in an hour---it is NOT going up at a rate of one degree a minute or less. The temp jumps quickly at the first few intervals (5, 10, 15 and 20) especially for the lower temps....and then the rate of increase slows in the second half of the hour.

I can't figure out how to past the chart here[] so here's a link just to the chart.
[linkhttp://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/1/e109/F3]http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/116/1/e109/F3[/link]

The bottom line, however, is that once the temperature in the car gets past the body temp of the dog, the dog can't get rid of the heat anymore, and it's body temp starts rising. It doesn't take much of a rise, maybe 4 degrees or so, and the dog is in an emergency situation and if immediate vet care is not available, the dog will probably die. 

A dog's body temperature is normally between 101°F and 102°F.zSB(3,3)

Dogs regulate their body temperature by panting, expelling heat out, causing an evaporatory reaction. If he can not expel the heat fast enough, his body temperature rises. A rise of 3 degrees to a temperature of 105°F is all it takes to send your dog into a dangerous situation. At this temperature, the dog can no longer cope with reducing his body heat and the oxygen demand goes up to where the dog can not keep up, and his temperature continues to rise.

When the temperature hits108°F, the heart, brain, liver, kidneys, and intestinal tract s start to begin breaking down at a cellular level, and the damage can progress at an alarming rate. Even immediate treatment and effective cooling to bring his temperature down can leave the dog with internal damage that may affect his health in long term ways.