Quote from Cesar Milan re: rescue/shelter dogs

yep, it looks like yahoo took the quote out of context. they should have included ALL of the other points.

ORIGINAL: ron2

So, it's still a slam against shelters. IMO.

I don't see where the quote makes any reference to shelters at all. The quote is about rescue centres is it not? So it is about folks looking to own particular breeds. I just came from "Not For Everyone" thread and read a lot of cautionary posts about many, many breeds. If you add the fact that the majority of purebreds found in rescue are probably from BYB, (reputable breeds take back their unwanted dogs) then maybe that is not the best source for "someone who is unsure of themselves, who's never owned a dog before.....etc". And although I agree that not all dogs in rescue are there because they have issues, many do. Whether it was the previous owners fault or not, the fact still remains.

When I decided I wanted to own an Aussie I checked out a number of Aussie rescues. Emotionally I wanted to save every dog there. Practically, I was unsure of myself as a dog handler and I had never owned a dog before, so I opted to go the safer route and buy from a good breeder. So unknowingly I followed CM's advice. Now that I know the breed and have some experience under my belt I would look at a rescue for my next Aussie. However, I am no longer the "someone" CM describes in his quote.

Personally I think it is sound advice.

if i didnt have any kids then i would gladly adopt from a shelter

I think it's a mistake to think that you have to avoid shelter dogs because you have kids.  Actually, if your shelter has a good behavior program, the dogs that will be offered to families with kids are already tested as ok with kids.  I'd much rather have a temperament tested dog, than take a chance on some byb or uninformed rescue group (some of the rescues temperament test, too - these would be the ones to deal with).
He made a blanket statement and IMO should have chosen his words a bit more carefully.  This is so much more important to do when you have the bully pulpit by reason of your fame.  He should be held to a higher standard when disseminating information to the public.
Anyone who wants to know how to evaluate their own shelter dog might want to take a look at Sue Sternberg's book, "Successful Dog Adoptions".

ORIGINAL: spiritdogs
I think it's a mistake to think that you have to avoid shelter dogs because you have kids. Actually, if your shelter has a good behavior program, the dogs that will be offered to families with kids are already tested as ok with kids. I'd much rather have a temperament tested dog, than take a chance on some byb or uninformed rescue group (some of the rescues temperament test, too - these would be the ones to deal with).

I bet Millan would be the first to agree with you! [] Unfortunately, temperment testing, and even an informative, or reliable in-shelter report about a dog is often not available, here in Los Angeles, where Millan lives and works. I'm amazed that some posters have so much background info on their adoptees! That's great! Is it common for the shelters of other cities to provide so much information?

I hope Millan's words bring more attention to issues like ours (LA's). Shelter workers need more resources so they can provide as much information and assistance as possible to individuals and families looking to adopt!

Shelter workers need more resources so they can provide as much information and assistance as possible to individuals and families looking to adopt!

It's not rocket science - there are good places to get the information, and most shelters would appreciate someone who donated these, since funds may be limited for such training materials - why not start a library at your shelter?
http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB747
http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB912
http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB876P

why not start a library at your shelter?

Also
http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB875P

I was not aware that Los Angeles animal shelters did not do temperment testing. And Los Angeles is so much larger than Sherman, Texas, in size and city budget. L.A. rivals NYC. In NYC, they have a branch of the police to handle domestic animals and they do temperment testing. But little, bitty L.A. can't do it. We might need to donate, either money, or the books. Or, donate money to allow a person from NYC to go to L.A. and provide training.
 

Most shelters don't spend any time training the dogs.  That's because most shelters are so small, and don't have any kind of organized behavioral plans.  Just an Animal Control Officer and a random volunteer at any given time.
 
I can sort of understand what Cesar is saying.  We've had quite a few dogs come back at the private shelter I'm volunteering at.  People will say they can handle the dog, yet they can't.  On our website it clearl says "This dog requires an owner with EXPERIENCE."  Yet the dog ends up back at the shelter. It's not the shelter's fault either.  They have a thorough interviewing process.  It's the people who say they can handle a certain dog when they can't.

Most animal shelters don't have the budget to do any kind of testing.
The last rescue we got was hours away from being gassed, talking to the people at the pound, oh well, they had no clue what he was all about....well, I should say one lady was nice enough to tell me that "He is a sweety"....what do you do with that?
Ok, adoption fee $15, [sm=eek.gif], wow........oh yeah, the basic shots were included, no rabies though.
I didn't have time to really evaluate the dog after we picked him up as I had him at the vet, pronto ...to fix what needed fixing.
Once he was good to go we started some very basic training, and found out that yes, he is a sweety, but has a problem resource guarding.......which, if untreated so to speak can end up in a serious bite.
He is good around the cats now, good with the other dogs, but we are still working on that problem.......but, he is catching on fast....[]he is realizing fast that I control food, toys and everything else, and that he must sit for quiet a few minutes at times and be patient before he gets to eat.[]

Most shelters don't spend any time training the dogs. That's because most shelters are so small, and don't have any kind of organized behavioral plans. Just an Animal Control Officer and a random volunteer at any given time.

If they're small, they can still do it.  My best friend is an ACO and takes it upon herself to test the dogs she adopts out.  It really doesn't take that much time - just knowledge and an assess-a-hand.  Also, you have to feed and clean kennels anyway - it really doesn't take much more to carry a clicker in your pocket and reward each dog for something he did right, even if it's just to stop barking for a moment.  It SO lowers the stress level in the whole shelter.
If citizens spent more time advocating for this, and attaching importance to the management of shelter dogs, rather than just shaking their fist and telling us to kill all the Pit Bulls, we'd get so much more accomplished.  But, ACO's are often the afterthought, getting budgets cut instead of beefed.  I'd STILL buy them the books - you'd be amazed what one dedicated staffer could do, with just a bit of knowledge.

I agree with his quote and appreciate that he's not the type to blow smoke up anyone's butt and promote that rescuing dogs from shelters is some kind of easy and seamless transition.  SO many shelter and rescue workers will do that.
 
I have a rescued dog.  I adopted him when he was 17 months old.  He'd been in the shelter for 6 months and was adopted twice and returned.  A boyfriend/girlfriend bought him as a pup and didn't take any time to train him, and then he became a full grown high energy dog with no manners.  He needed to be run, run, run (FT-line purebred Lab) and worked with steadily on obedience.  After I adopted him, I soon realized that he needed no less than 2 hours of hard exercise a day (thank God I had a pond across the street, we'd do frisbee retrieves in it), and he also had some separation anxiety/destruction issues.  He destroyed a futon, a leather jacket, a duffel bag, 3 couch cushions, and a bottle of Advil (didn't eat any) before I realized that he could NOT be left alone and needed confinement.  I nearly gave him back myself - even though I'd had dogs my whole life, I'd never had a dog who had issues like that, and it was a major learning experience for both of us.
 
I also adopted another Lab (chocolate F) a year after I got Cole.  This dog had terrible problems.  Not only did she need an ACL repair immediately (tore it on adoption day at the foster home), the rehab for that was terrible.  Then she developed some serious aggression issues toward Cole and also she bit my at-the-time boyfriend and gave him 5 punctures in his hand.  I had her medically evaluated and spent over $1000 trying to rehabilitate her.  Nothing worked.  I managed her for 3 years until I got married and our setup didn't work as well anymore - my husband has a young daughter from a previous marriage and plus my dog was dog-aggressive and would seriously injure herself trying to get at other dogs or small animals.  Our entire lives revolved around managing her crap and she growled at us every day around mealtimes.  I had her evaluated by a behaviorist again who was very CM-like and she said that she could not help us and recommended euthanasia.  I put her down this past November and it was the hardest thing I've ever had to do as a pet owner: euthanize a physically healthy, young animal.  Bunny was only 4. 
 
Both these dogs came to me with rave reviews from the rescue organizations.  They hadn't fostered the dogs long enough to know they had the kind of issues they did, or they were home all day and so the dogs didn't exhibit SA or destruction tendencies.  So while I won't say that all shelter dogs have these kind of issues, I wholeheartedly agree that they are not for novice dog owners. 

Yeah, some of our shelter workers are quite knowledgeable, schutzhund trainers and the like. It's just that they are under a mandate to achieve no-kill, and yet:

~ Los Angeles is “the stray pet capitol of the US.” Unsterilized dogs are more likely to stray.
23,799 stray dogs were impounded by LA Animal Services last year.
~ Since 1985, police have shot at more than 465 dogs, killing at least 200 and wounding at least 140,
according to incident reports.
~ ONLY 30% of lost dogs are reclaimed by their owners, the other 70% only have a 20% chance of finding a new home.
Most are euthanized because there is simply no room.

So, picture a shelter with 200+ dogs in it, 70% of which are bully breeds. [] Then imagine taking your family in to select one of these animals, only a few of which has any record, or is known to the shelter workers. The barking is so loud, you cannot have a conversation. Also imagine, that you can only spend as much time with a prospective adoptee as the shelter worker can spare: the dog is kept on a slip lead, held by the shelter worker at all times. There is no visitor room where you can hang out with the dog. This gives you about 10 minutes in a hallway, with no history, to decide about this dog. How good a choice could you make?

I agree, shelters need advocates! Many rescue organizations in LA focus on rescuing from the shelters, rather than the community at large.

Anyway, I don't mean to get off-topic. It's just that this is the shelter envorinment Millan would be most familiar with, and would inform his opinions and cautionary statements.

ORIGINAL: g33

 So while I won't say that all shelter dogs have these kind of issues, I wholeheartedly agree that they are not for novice dog owners. 

 
I disagree. I think your comment is too broad. ANY dog is difficult for a novice dog ower- even puppies. Just because a dog comes from a shelter does not mean he/she has problems. Some shelter dogs are found on the side of the road, some are great dogs whose owners have had to give them up for a multitude of reasons (divorce, having a baby, moving, health problems, money problems etc.) in which they can no longer handle the responsibility a dog requires. It doesn't necessarily make them dogs with issues. These situation, therefore, should not throw shelter dogs into all of the same "not for novice dogowners" category. I understand that some of them are not the best for first-time ownership, but to say that they are all not for novice dog owners is both untrue and unfair.

ORIGINAL: ark3

ORIGINAL: g33

So while I won't say that all shelter dogs have these kind of issues, I wholeheartedly agree that they are not for novice dog owners. 

 

I understand that some of them are not the best for first-time ownership, but to say that they are all not for novice dog owners is both untrue and unfair.

 
Note that in my quote above, I said I don't think ALL shelter dogs have these kinds of issues.  I do believe that a great majority of them do.  I stated my comment based on my personal experience, and I do have shelter and rescue volunteer experience as well.  My point is that a novice dog owner is kidding themselves if they believe everything is going to be easy and hunky-dory with a shelter dog especially if they KNOW the dog has been through any kind of trauma.  Especially dogs that are in a shelter environment - that is absolutely nothing like someone's home.  A novice dog owner is foolish to believe that anything said to them about a dog at a shelter is going to still be true once that dog gets into a home environment.  It's a recipe for frustration on the part of owner and dog.  I just think that CM was injecting a bit of reality into a situation that too many times is colored with hearts and flowers, and I agree that adopting a dog from a shelter or rescue needs to be a serious consideration and not all first-time/novice dog owners have the presence of mind to do that.  Some shelters are really great about asking pointed questions (and what will you do when the dog destroys your couch when you leave him home alone for 30 minutes to run to the bank?  what will you do when you realize the dog doesn't understand housebreaking since he's been in a shelter for several months and pisses all over your thousand-dollar persian rug?) but the majority of them do not. 

ORIGINAL: g33

ORIGINAL: ark3

ORIGINAL: g33

So while I won't say that all shelter dogs have these kind of issues, I wholeheartedly agree that they are not for novice dog owners. 

 

I understand that some of them are not the best for first-time ownership, but to say that they are all not for novice dog owners is both untrue and unfair.

Note that in my quote above, I said I don't think ALL shelter dogs have these kinds of issues.  I do believe that a great majority of them do.  I stated my comment based on my personal experience, and I do have shelter and rescue volunteer experience as well.  My point is that a novice dog owner is kidding themselves if they believe everything is going to be easy and hunky-dory with a shelter dog especially if they KNOW the dog has been through any kind of trauma.  Especially dogs that are in a shelter environment - that is absolutely nothing like someone's home.  A novice dog owner is foolish to believe that anything said to them about a dog at a shelter is going to still be true once that dog gets into a home environment.  It's a recipe for frustration on the part of owner and dog.  I just think that CM was injecting a bit of reality into a situation that too many times is colored with hearts and flowers, and I agree that adopting a dog from a shelter or rescue needs to be a serious consideration and not all first-time/novice dog owners have the presence of mind to do that.  Some shelters are really great about asking pointed questions (and what will you do when the dog destroys your couch when you leave him home alone for 30 minutes to run to the bank?  what will you do when you realize the dog doesn't understand housebreaking since he's been in a shelter for several months and pisses all over your thousand-dollar persian rug?) but the majority of them do not. 

 
My apologies for misunderstanding. I was going on your last quote which says, "I wholeheartedly agree they are not for novice dog owners."
My point was that there are plenty of well-behaved dogs who go to shelters not because they have difficult personalities but because of many other situations which the dog has nothing to do with- shelter dogs are not necessarily trauma dogs. I think owning a dog in general (not just a shelter dog) should require a ton of consideration. I know people who have dogs that chew on furniture, pee on the floor,etc who didn't get their dogs from a shelter. My other point was that a puppy is still difficult to train if you are a novice dog owner and if you don't do it properly you will still get a dog with problems. So people shouldn't assume that dog ownership is easy one way or another.