California Proposition 2 ???

    • Gold Top Dog

    California Proposition 2 ???

    Sorry, I'm lazy.  Anyone know if this passed? 

    • Gold Top Dog

    wiki says it passed?

    WIKI LINKY

     

    Another one indicating it passed

    LINKY

    • Gold Top Dog

    I never really got a good grasp about what proposition #2 was all about.  All the *yes on #2* ads talked about giving chickens more room in their pens ... and really, who could argue against that?  When I finally saw a *no on #2* ad, it was talking about e-coli, salmonella and importing foods from Mexico.  I never quite got the connection between e-coli and providing some stretching room for chickies, but it's not unheard of for one or both sides of a proposition to use scare tactics to gain votes.

    Joyce

    • Gold Top Dog

    fuzzy_dogs_mom
    but it's not unheard of for one or both sides of a proposition to use scare tactics to gain votes.

    No way, I can't believe anyone would use scare tactics to get a vote their way!!!  LOL

    I would have voted against it but that's just because the scare tactic side I listened to scared me into it.  I'm kidding, you know that, right?

    Edited to correct spelling.

    • Gold Top Dog

    it will have the effect of moving the egg industry out of your state completely...which means less jobs and higher prices on products that need to be trucked in at the least. That's the main thing I read to the contrary.

    The only issue I have with this cage stuff is that the COST of these laws and businesses having to redo the entire way they do business...is passed along to the customer...which is no biggy when we're talking luxury items like stereos or TV's but is a big deal when we're discussing protein sources which are needed by people no matter how much money they make. Things like food basics are already so overpriced, esp on the "coasts" I always shudder.

    Again I just wonder...when will green, and warm fuzzy farming...becoming something the working poor and just plain poor can afford to indulge in?

    • Gold Top Dog

    rwbeagles

    Again I just wonder...when will green, and warm fuzzy farming...becoming something the working poor and just plain poor can afford to indulge in?

    That would be when PETA puts it's money where it would really do some good!  Isn't it  a crying shame that it is so darn expensive to eat healthy and to do the "right" thing, such as eating eggs from free range chickens, etc.  Sigh.

    In Texas, the free range chickens all run for the big, ugly, cruel poultry producer's barns to escape the coyotes!  LOL 

    • Gold Top Dog

    They've already announced  that we're looking at a 7% increase in groceries within the next few months anyway .... a lot of that due to the cost of feeding the animals we eat, including chickens.  I can do quite nicely without meat, but I told the boys that if they're going to continue on with their carnivorous way of life they should seriously consider switching to a meat we don't have to actually feed.  Squirrel casserole, anyone?

    Joyce

    • Gold Top Dog

    we're talking eggs tho...the staple...it's IN so many other things that those prices will also concurrently rise...it's crazy! I wonder sometimes if there's some insidious movement afoot to starve the poor completely out of existence. Even if they use food stamps those will buy less, so will need to be upped which will affect the taxpayer who will frown even more on the poor and oy!

    I need a beer...LOL.

    • Gold Top Dog

    CA is a biiiig state area wise.  Why would giving the chickens more space have to result in the chicken/egg industry having to move somewhere else?

    Joyce

    • Gold Top Dog

    Join NAIA in Opposing California Proposition 2!

     

    Dear Jackie,

    With the successful battle against AB 1634 in our rear view mirror, we can now move full speed ahead to defeat Proposition 2, another Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) backed California initiative.

    This time, the vegan authors of Proposition 2 have created a measure that is not only unnecessary and unreasonable, but one that also threatens the health and well being of the hens it is suppose to protect and the people who eat their eggs. Proposition 2 would ban almost all modern egg production in California, outlawing scientifically approved and well-established methods used by farmers for decades to safely house hens.

    California Proposition 2 will outsource egg production

    Californians need to understand that they are being asked to overhaul egg farming in their state by a vegan-led national organization – a group that has no personal dietary stake in the availability, safety or quality of eggs.

    At both NAIA and NAIA Trust, we always examine the facts and formulate our positions based on the best information and science available and the interests of both animals and the people who care for them. While the expressed goals of Proposition 2 are laudable, our research indicates that the housing methods targeted for elimination under Proposition 2 protect hens from disease and injury and no studies suggest that passing Proposition 2 would result in an overall improvement of their care, well being and protection. Moreover, if Proposition 2 wins and these methods are banned, it won't improve animal welfare standards, but it would put California consumers at risk by replacing their safest, healthiest, most affordable sources of eggs – ones from local farms – with eggs from other states and countries. In a market-driven global economy, Proposition 2 will only serve to move egg production out of state, and out of country, where animal welfare standards are lower than in California.

    The unintended consequence of passing Proposition 2 is clear: A September 5, 2008 Associated Press article reported: "The Mexican government has voluntarily suspended shipments of meat and processed poultry to the U.S. after the country's officials raised concerns about the quality of Mexican food processing and inspections. The USDA's Food Safety and Inspection Service (FSIS) has identified systemic problems with sanitation controls and record-keeping during an annual audit that took place in Mexico between June 24 and July 31."

    Unfair game: HSUS propaganda machine operates with laser precision

    As many of you know, whether you breed dogs, work at a zoo or manage wildlife for a living, the general public lacks the knowledge of the practices and tools that the hands-on experts use to raise, protect and care for animals. With about 1% of our population providing food for the other 99%, it's easy for the public to accept distorted portrayals of these methods and practices. That is why it is our central mission to educate the public about responsible animal use and animal welfare from the real world perspective of people who live and work with animals.

    Our role becomes increasingly important when well-funded, Washington D.C. based special interest groups like the Humane Society of the United States get behind issues like Proposition 2. They target vulnerable urban audiences with world state-of-the-art propaganda, focusing on all the problems that bolster their case and omitting the facts that would enable their audience to make an informed decision. If this campaign is like other HSUS efforts, the fine tuned pre-campaign polling has already generated field tested messages and images that will work with laser precision on  a trusting and humane, urban audience. For HSUS and Farm Sanctuary it's just like shooting fish in a barrel.

    Wayne Pacelle goes to church

    This week, as part of a "Faith and Politics Series" aimed at exploring current legislative issues that require moral and thoughtful consideration, the United Methodist Church of Modesto hosted a fascinating panel discussion about Proposition 2.

    NAIA representative Tina Perriguey was there and reported that a panel of 5 answered questions posed by a packed house numbering about 325.

    The pro side was anchored by Wayne Pacelle, CEO of the Humane Society of the United States, and HSUS paid consultant, Reverend Bruner.

    Opposing Proposition 2 were three subject matter experts: Dr. Nancy Reimer, DVM,MSpVM, Dip. ACPV; Jill Benson, local egg farmer and Vice President of JS West & Companies; Bill Mattos, President of the California Poultry Federation.

    According to Perriguey, "Dr. Reimers, Jill, and Bill consistently refuted the arguments of Pacelle and Bruner. Throughout the evening, these three experts presented clear, compelling, compassionate, science-based evidence opposing Prop 2."

    Dr. Nancy Reimer pointed out that, "Modern hen housing systems were developed to protect hens from predators, parasites, and other pathogens. By separating hens and their eggs from manure and housing them indoors, we protect both humans and hens from diseases like Salmonella enteritidis and Avian Influenza." For a full report on the evening's proceedings, read Tina Perriguey's blog and contribute your ideas and comments, too: http://wwww.naiaonline.org/forums/thread/113.aspx


    American Veterinary Medical Association opposes Prop 2

    NAIA is pleased to see respected organizations like the American Veterinary Medical Association expressing opposition to this misguided proposition as well. We applaud AVMA's recent position statement: "Animal welfare is a complex issue and demands that decisions be based on science, tempered with compassion, and take into account all aspects of welfare. Changing housing standards without consideration of how this may affect other aspects of animal welfare, such as protection from disease and injury, will not be in the animals' or society's best interest." Go here to read the entire AVMA's statement: http://www.avma.org/press/releases/080826_california_proposition2.asp

    Prop 2 will appear on the November 4 ballot in California, and if successful, it will be replicated in other states. Other initiatives, orchestrated and backed by powerful animal rights organizations using these same tactics - sophisticated polling methods, heavily bank-rolled social marketing campaigns - have already been passed in Florida and Arizona. That is why people who understand the issues and represent common sense mainstream values on animal welfare must pull together and do what we can to defeat this measure in California, a state that is often used as a springboard for launching campaigns around the country.

    In weeks prior to the vote, Prop 2 will run ads designed to shock the audience

    If Prop 2 is running true to form, the campaign has already made huge media buys for the period immediately before the vote and you can be sure that the television ads will be gut wrenching, sensational, ugly and distorted. In fact, they will be designed to short circuit even the most rational person's ability to see the subject objectively. That's HSUS specialty – performing a media lobotomy on otherwise reasonable people right before the critical vote. We encourage you to visit the Californians For Safe Food Website to learn more about the issues and why we oppose Proposition 2: http://www.safecaliforniafood.org/ . Educate yourself. While you're there, click the tab that says join the coalition. Then, next time you see a distorted article in your local paper about the issue, use your knowledge of the issues to write a letter to the editor.

    We've found that the only way to beat campaigns that use last-minute media blitzes featuring emotional propaganda is through grassroots person to person activism, writing letters to the editor, calling in to radio talk shows, telling your friends, making presentations to the Rotary, Elks, Kiwanians, Junior Leagues – everywhere, to every nook and cranny of the community. If you oppose Proposition 2, and want to see it defeated, this is what you need to do and you need to start today.

    HSUS has said that Prop 2 is Ground Zero for the animal rights movement. Let's prove them right! Commit to help today. Write us at to get involved: http://naiatrust.org/


    Thank you,

    Patti Strand
    National Director, NAIA Trust

    P.S. And remember, we rely on your grassroots contributions to stay up and running, so please donate today to our 17-year movement. Go to: http://www.naiatrust.org/donationForm.htm to make a secure online donation. Thank you for your support!!

    Click below to sign up for the following NAIA and NAIA Trust news and updates:
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    Please use the "send to a friend" button below to forward.

    Copyright © 2008 National Animal Interest Alliance Trust. All rights reserved Visit the National Animal Interest Alliance 


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    • Gold Top Dog

    because it is cheaper to do things the way they are now...in accordance with the laws on the books now....than retrofit every processing place with the required equipment,...which they'd have to buy?

    Ca is big...I come from there...it is also ridiculously expensive to buy even a PART of an acre there, let alone the required acreage for a business. I don't blame them one bit if they leave...but I kinda think that was the whole point...to make them leave.

    I know the feeling...the economy there is so bass ackward it made me leave, too...LOL.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I voted no on it and one of the overwhelming reasons was because the CEO of the HSUS was promoting the passing of it. I also read enough to concern me about the fiscal impact of the bill passing. I honestly didn't think it would pass but like many of propositions, the wording isn't enough to give a clear picture on all the pros and cons.

    • Gold Top Dog

    I have to admit that I really didn't pay too much attention to this one.  I guess I got caught up in the election overall and prop. #8 and since I voted absentee the day the ballot arrived, I honestly can't even remember how I voted.

    Joyce

    • Gold Top Dog
    Prop 2 isn't just about giving chickens more room to live. It also addresses pregnant cows and veal calves who are housed 24/7 in enclosures that aren't even big enough to allow them to turn around or move. Oprah did a show on this and it was really sad. I cannot imagine living like that for even one day. Here is a small exerpt, but there is a lot more info out there. I buy cage free eggs and will continue to do so.

    Prop 2: the humane thing to do California's farm animals and consumers deserve Proposition 2's protections. By Wayne Pacelle October 28, 2008 Two weeks ago, video from an undercover investigation at Norco Ranch, owned by Missouri-based Moark, was released to the public showing pitiful images of animals abused at a California factory farm. The undercover investigator not only recorded images of four to six birds crammed into small cages and unable to extend their wings, but also dead birds in cages, birds with legs or other body parts caught in the wire caging, and the animals living in absolute filth and squalor. A California initiative on the November ballot -- Proposition 2, the Prevention of Farm Animal Cruelty Act -- would phase out the cramming of veal calves, breeding pigs and egg-laying hens into small cages and crates. Moark and Norco together are the largest funders of the campaign against Proposition 2, and Norco is the largest egg factory farm in the state, with 8 million birds crammed into tiny cages. If you only listened to the arguments of the opponents of Proposition 2 or read their news releases, you'd think they were the greatest caretakers of animals and protectors of food safety. Their self-image is miles from the reality. Earlier this year, there was another investigation that shocked Californians and the nation. It showed the mistreatment of "downer" cows at the Hallmark/Westland Meat Packing Co. slaughter plant in Chino. An investigator from the Humane Society of the United States went undercover there and documented sick and crippled cows being brutalized in order to get them into the "kill box." Government inspectors and plant management either missed the abuse or allowed it to persist. Agribusiness apologists tried their best to deny that this happened until confronted with graphic videotape evidence. These two investigations show that we cannot allow the factory farming industry to self-regulate, nor can we wait for government to step up and protect animals from abuse or to guard us from food safety threats. That's precisely why Proposition 2 is so important and timely. Animals with wings and legs need to be allowed to use them, and they should not be denied enough room to stand up, turn around and stretch their limbs. That's the simple fix behind Proposition 2, and it's phased in over a six-year period to allow farmers to transition to more humane production practices. Proposition 2 will not restore the placid imagery of "Old MacDonald's Farm," but veal calves will no longer be chained by the neck and confined in tiny stalls until slaughter; pigs will not be imprisoned in metal cages that are barely larger than their bodies; and eight hens at a time will not be crammed into wire cages with each bird having less floor space than a letter-sized sheet of paper.

    • Gold Top Dog

    http://www.voterguide.sos.ca.gov/argu-rebut/argu-rebutt2.htm

    This gives you a better pro/con of the proposition and the supporters and opposers.