Dog walking off leash

ORIGINAL: houndlove

No no no no no no no no never. My dogs are not cut out for it at all.

*raises hands*  Me too.  I probably could walk him off lead in certain circumstances, however he can cover about 2/3 mile in a minute and will run down deer, rabbits, squirrels, feisty little dogs and anything else fuzzy and in his path when he's in prey drive (90% of the time.)  So Xerxes stays on lead.

As you could probably tell by my post, er rant, in "leash laws" I have a problem with it too.

Here's my main problem: When I see a dog off-leash in the distance I have no idea whether or not it belongs to a responisble owner. In our local park, frequently the owner will, upon seeing us, recall the dog and either leash it or hold it's collar as we pass. But frequently not. How do I know what's going to happen? There's no blinking sign over each dog stating "It's safe, I'll be recalled, keep walking." or "My owner is paying no attention, or doesn't care, I am about to charge up to your dogs in a rude greeting, you should turn and walk the other way now." I would rather know that every time I see a dog I do not have to play this giant guessing game about what's going to happen next.

If I had a DA dog I'd be having mini heart attacks every single time I saw a dog off leash. That does not make for a relaxing, enjoyable walk and I really do not think it is fair to everyone else. Here online we can explain ourselves and how well-trained our dogs are and talk about how we approach off-leash walking, but in the real world, I have no idea what kind of dog-owner you are and what kind of temperament your dog has. It's very stressful to me, and to Conrad who's got some fearfulness and reactivity issues and he can definately tell when a dog is not on a leash, and he definately knows that that means possible threat.

ORIGINAL: Liesje

I agree, Becca. Personally, I am hesistant to condone ANY dog off-leash in an area where there may be other dogs. I just spent a week dog-sitting a huge Alaskan Malamute that has developed leash reactivity/dog aggression. It's insanely hard to control a 95 lb sled dog lunging at full force. I always had her on a short, strong leash (Ella's Lead!!) and kept her walking right at heel (which she does fine on her own). I successfully kept her from eating two mini-Dachshunds that were leashed, thank God, but then on the last day I noticed a Golden Retriever off-leash ahead. The Golden and owner were completely unaware of our presence. The Golden was being allowed to wander way behind and way in front and the owner never once called the dog back or even glanced to see where he was. The whole time, my dog is getting more and more worked up, b/c she can smell this dog and see it every once in a while. I hung back and kept having to stop b/c this woman was walking so slow, not paying any attention to her dog. Luckily, we were less than 1/4 mile from the path that went to my dog's backyard so as soon as we got close, I quickly ducked her onto the path and marched her forward, so there was no incident.

Anyway, the point is, if you're going to allow your dog off-leash, even on a woodsy trail, PLEASE at the very least keep tabs on your dog ALL the time, not just when it darts off to run over to people. IMO, it's off-leash owners responsibility to be on the lookout for other dogs and people, and not wait until the dog runs off to call it back. It doesn't matter that the dog has a good recall and is called back before meeting the other dog. The dog aggressive dog on the leash is already worked up and escalated to the KILL stage, just seeing/smelling/sensing another dog on the loose, zig-zagging up ahead. I keep my dogs on short leads and will bet a million dollars they are wearing collars they cannot back out of or pull out of. I keep the dogs I walk either at heel or within a step ahead or behind me. It's not MY responsibility to keep tabs on other off-leash dogs and keep having to stop or walk in circles to avoid them.

AMEN


Ella is not a big dog, I can control her on leash. I buy high quality collars that she CANNOT back out of and they contain no plastic on them at all (because she can break plastic buckle collars because while she's not big, she's STRONG). I check ALL of my equipment before walking out the door. Short of muzzling or not walking her period, I could not be more responsible with my dog while we're out in public. And it irritates me that I take all the precautions I can to make sure my dog is controlled, but yet if she were to attack an off leash dog, she'd be at fault.

I almost don't care how solid a recall others' dogs have, if you're out in a place, that's NOT fenced in, please leash your dog. I don't care if you're Patricia McConnell (who, even as a well educated and highly regarded animal behaviorist, has made mistakes in reading canine behavior before) leash your dog in public unless you're in a fenced in area. The point is, no matter how well you know your dog, canines can be unpredictable. If you want your dog to have off leash time, let them do it in your own fenced in yard or a fenced area somewhere else. Please.

we only do off-leash in areas where you're 99.9% certain to never see another dog, person, or car, or in local off leash dog park areas where people congregate to let their dogs run off-leash. Presumably the people with reactive dogs can just avoid these parks.
I can't imagine letting a dog off leash along a road or in a neighborhood or city. Even if the dog is 99% reliable, I'd be freaking about the dog getting hit by a car.

My dog isn't nearly obedient enough in order to walk off-leash.
 
I just wish people would know when their dogs weren't ready.  My poor dog got attacked by an off-leash dog a week after I got her.  This giant lab mix ran up to her...didn't even hesitate.  The owner ran up and grabbed the dog, pulling it away, saying, "I'm so sorry, I wasn't paying attention!"  WTF?!

ORIGINAL: chewbecca

To all of you with dogs with SOLID recalls who don't wish to go up and greet others, does that include other dogs??

Are you all 100% sure of how to read your dogs and what their intents are?

I don't mean to offend anyone by asking this, but off leash dogs scare the CRAP out of me. Not for me, but for my dog.
It takes not even two seconds, NOT EVEN, regardless of if you are there with a leash or not, for an off leash dog to run up and greet an on leash dog, and for the on leash dog to react and bite/attack your off leash dog.

So...I hope all of you with dogs with SOLID recalls, are 100% positive that you know your dog, as a dog and not as a seemingly, well intended dog that loves other people and other dogs. Because, regardless, if my dog were to meet any one of your off leash dogs and your dogs ran up to her, my dog would react. And it doesn't even have to be my dog, specifically because I'm sure the chances of us meeting are slim to none, but I'm 100% POSITIVE my dog is not the only dog reactive dog. And just as I am 100% positive that my dog is not the only existing dog reactive dog, I hope that you all with dogs with 100% SOLID recalls, are that much more positive that your dogs have solid recalls.

And would any of you walking your dogs off leash be offended if your dog ran up to a dog reactive dog and the dog reactive dog attacked yours?

I totally agree with you. Some dogs get along with other dogs and some don't. You can think your dog is the sweetest dog in the world, but if that dog approaches a dog that triggers something in either dog, you have a nasty situation on your hands. If a dog is off leash and charges me or my dog, the attacking dog is going to need some serious vet care when I get through with it. If  someone  allows their  dog to be off leash they  have to be prepared for that outcome, and shouldn't say a word if it happens. 

Tootsie and Dingo have a reliable recall, but they are  always on leash anyway. I never have to worry about Tootsie approaching another dog because shes a big baby. Sammy, well he is never, never off leash. Have you ever tried catching a min pin? Almost impossible.

My dog gets an off leash walk everyday and has since he was 5 months. However he is always leashed anywhere there is street traffic, even from the house to the car. We generally walk thru ravine areas where it is not unusual to meet other dogs and people. I have trained him to come to my side when he sees either. He knows when he sees a dog or a person he will get a treat, so he always comes bounding back at which point I either grab his harness or clip the leash until I have a chance to evaluate the situation. Luckily he is not a runner or a tracker and he stays relatively close. When he does disappear into the wooded area or down to the river for a drink, he is never gone more than 2 or 3 minutes. He may not come back to my side, but he poops his head out, checks where I am and returns to his fun.

Although I have reinforced this behaviour, I think it also has a lot to do with his personality and possibly his breed.

About 10 years ago, there was an elderly man down the street that had this lovely senior Golden R. Every morning at 10, he would open his front door and Rusty would come out and walk herself around the block! I thought that was sooo neat!

I'd like to elaborate on my earlier rant.  My problem is not so much that dogs are off-leash, per se, but that the off-leash dog owners I encounter let their dog's get away with so much more and often pay no attention to where the dog is or what he's doing.  I like to train a dog to walk on a leash so that the leash is loose and the dog is not pulling.  I use 4-6 foot leads, so the dog is walking not always at heel, but never more than 4-6 feet away b/c we are loose-leash walking.  I don't understand letting a dog off-lead so that it CAN just be allowed to run all over the place, up ahead, or fall behind.  That's not appropriate on a leash, so for me it's not appropriate off a leash either, regardless of whether other dogs or people are around.  On-leash or off-leash, I want my dog close enough to me so that I could reach out and grab it withing 10 steps or less.  Now if we are tracking, then we are using a tracking harness and tracking lead, and the dog understands that it is tracking.  But when we are walking, we are walking the same way we would walk on a walking leash.

ETA:  I'm not taking into account dog parks where it's assumed the dog is released off-leash into a fence area.  That's different, mainly because that's a designated area for being off-leash, and you cannot expect people to be using leashes. 

I don't understand letting a dog off-lead so that it CAN just be allowed to run all over the place, up ahead, or fall behind.

 
isn't that the whole point of doing an off-leash walk? so the dog can get in lots of sniffing and more exercise than on -leash?  I train my guys to stay within thirty feet (length of a long-line) and come back immediately when called, in case we do see another dog or person.

ORIGINAL: mudpuppy

I don't understand letting a dog off-lead so that it CAN just be allowed to run all over the place, up ahead, or fall behind.

isn't that the whole point of doing an off-leash walk? so the dog can get in lots of sniffing and more exercise than on -leash? I train my guys to stay within thirty feet (length of a long-line) and come back immediately when called, in case we do see another dog or person.

Unless it's a trust building thing and not so much an exercise thing. Which if it is a trust building thing, I don't understand.

isn't that the whole point of doing an off-leash walk? so the dog can get in lots of sniffing and more exercise than on -leash?

I suppose it depends on the dog/people.  The dogs I walk aren't going to get any more exercise walking 30 feet ahead of me than they are within 6 feet of me.  I set the pace and I determine where we go.  I typically reward good loose leash walking with periods of freedom for sniffing, if that's what the dog wants.  Once dog I just had walked loose leash at heel all by herself, so every 5 minutes or so I slowed down, steered her over to the grassy edge and let her sniff around a bit.  Other dogs I walk have no interest in sniffing while they are walking, only when the are released in a yard or big dog run area.

Either way, I don't really have a choice in the matter since we have a leash law calling for a 6 ft. lead, so I train the dogs to walk according to the law and I expect other people in my area to do the same.  I guess they don't really know what they are missing.  They don't try and pull ahead to sniff b/c they want to walk/jog and know they can sniff if I stop or when they are in the dog runs.

Rosco - never off lead. He's an Am Staff and can get into trouble with other dogs, specifically males. Plus, so many people are afraid of him and it's best for him to just toodle on by on a trail, happy and smiley. I think that does more for the breed image than a 60 lb. tank, with a HUGE smile/mouth romping off lead. He's got a pretty good recall, but why take the chance of something bad happening?

Lexi - Allowed off lead in remote areas where we won't see other people or dogs. She has a solid recall and "leave it" - which applies to people, dogs sticks, whatever.

Luna - Not allowed off leash as she's just a baby dog. She does go on a long line in the back yard to work on recalls, but that's about it for the little girl at this point.

All the time... as often as I can... away from law enforcement.  Basil is really good about staying close, but I NEVER do it around children usually just when its him and me and a big stretch of grass.  Dogs running free... nothing better.

I could never let Jack off-leash at this point, as he's only 10 months old and I just adopted him at the end of February.  We've done quite a bit of work with obedience and while he does a great "sit", "stay", "wait", "lay down", "come" and "shake" when there's no distractions, he's pretty terrible at following commands when there's a lot going on (generally other dogs, or perhaps a wonderful smell somewhere).  He's in the midst of adolescence and the thought of letting him off-leash gives me hives!
 
It's hard to say what he'll be like as a more settled adult, and how far his general obedience and recall will have come, but I never plan to let him off-leash except in the most controlled situations (like the fenced-in dog park), or when I'm quite certain we won't see other people/dogs.  We have a strict leash law here in Sonoma County, and I'm frustrated when I see people violating it.  Jack loves loves LOVES to play with other dogs, and I've had a heck of a time dealing with him when off-leash dogs run up to us and engage him in play (luckily that's all that has happened at this point, nothing aggressive).  It's not easy controlling a 66 lbs. puppy who is freaking out on the end of his leash trying to play with the dog who is literally jumping on him.  I did just place an order for Direct Stop, and will not hesitate to use it in the future (even if the dog isn't being aggressive).  I'm working so hard on trying to make Jack less reactive (in a playful way) to other dogs during our walks, and I'm sick of my efforts being thwarted by irresponsible owners.
 
I'd be very impressed to see an off-leash dog who has 100% solid recall and follows commands pitch-perfectly... but I haven't yet.  I'm not at all saying that they're not out there, but it hasn't been my experience when I've encountered off-leash dogs.  Around here, it seems that most of the off-leash dogs I've had personal run-ins with have been almost completely untrained, have terrible recall, and their owners pay very little attention to them.  I had a young rat terrier charge at us from his front yard the other day while Jack and I were on a walk, and he continued to follow us after I'd turned Jack around to walk the opposite way.  I kept walking, even after he began trying to wrestle with Jack (not easy, by the way), and we ended up all the way around the block.  The owner didn't come after his dog.  When we finally got around to the dog's house (after circling the block, trying to get away from him), the guy sees his dog and casually says, "Nacho, come."  Nacho didn't.  And Nacho was around the block a minute ago, you doofus!!
 
Anyway, I think it's great to let an impeccably-trained dog off-leash in areas where you're quite certain you won't see other people and/or dogs, but in general, I think it's a bit unfair to others to allow your dog off-leash.  There are plenty of people who are scared of dogs (my ex, for example), and would be quite terrified to see an off-leash dog even in the distance.  As was mentioned before, they would have no way of knowing that dog's temperment or how responsible the owner is.  And there are those people with dog-aggressive or reactive dogs who will feel the same way.  I don't think it's right to risk upsetting other people just so your dog can walk off-leash in an area that isn't explicitly designated as such.