tea remedies *updated 10-17

He is neutered.  He's roughly drinking about the same.  Although I don't monitor it cup-by-cup I do notice him drink on the order of 20 ounces a day -- and I'm sure he drinks more when I'm not looking, that's just what I notice when I'm here with him.  His urine has been a fairly stable medium color -- he doesn't often drink enough at once to get it colorless, but neither is it usually very dark.  Maybe some days when he is home a longer time and hasn't drunk all his water, but that's to be expected.  I will keep an eye on it when I take him out tonight.  He doesn't seem to be going any more or less than usual, such as many times but small amounts, etc nor does it seem painful, etc but I did pick up some cranberry pills (not a terribly high quality brand but it was all Target had) since it probably won't hurt him and it might help him.

I also noticed that we hadn't given him his Frontline spray in more than a month and someone at the dog event today mentioned that the fleas in our area are really bad this year and that the red bumps on his belly might be that, so I sprayed him tonight.  Even though had a bath about 36 hours ago I thought it was better to go ahead with it -- I use the spray rather than the tube stuff anyway.

I'm certainly hoping not to need to do elimination diet -- he's had, at one point or another, very many protein and carb sources even if it was only a can of food here or a new kind of treat there.  I tried to vary the protein enough to *keep* him away from allergies (even if that isn't a proven fact).  And being a rescue I have no way of knowing his history before us.  Long term, he's had beef, chicken and lamb for protein, and I know rice was a carb but not sure if there were others.

Callie, do you have any information on home cooking?  I'm not sure yet if its something I want to do (unless he does turn out to have allergies) but it wouldn't hurt to read up on it.  I think I'm worried mostly about making the diet balanced enough -- I know there is a lot of "work" involved in making a raw diet balanced and I assume home cooked is similar.  Our trainer feeds raw so I would have some help if I went that way, but I don't have the ability to get a separate freezer to keep enough there, I don't think.  Most people seem to buy raw in bulk.  I've actually thought more than once that buying human food is actually cheaper than some dog foods, and especially treats.  I can buy chicken breast around 2.49/lb but treats can be 4.99 a lb?!?  Sammy would rather have chicken!!  I don't mind cooking in and of itself and we do have a crock pot....

Janice -- what were the signs Jessie showed when you found out she had food allergies?  I've heard that a dog could have several types of allergies but it might take a bought of something for them to really show.  For example, he might have food allergies but it could take an episode of environmental stimulus for him to really start showing the symptoms of either.  Someone I know, her dog has both wheat and environmental allergies, but when she treated for the wheat allergy the environmental became much more managable.  So I don't doubt for an instant that there could be 3-4 things going on at the same time!

He has 3 beds in a 750 sq ft apartment but spends most of his time on the couch and our bed anyway.  The only time he isn't on something soft is occassionally on our one throw rug and when he is crated. I will put out another blanket or two so he isn't on the rug anymore.  Wonder if the plastic in the crate isn't helping?  I used to put a blanket in there when it was cooler, but he would spill his water every day "making his bed" and pushing the blanket around and then have to lay on a wet blanket for hours, so unless it gets really cold he doesn't have anything in his crate. (those bowls that clamp on seemed to be calling to him since every day he would tear it off.  We went through about 6 before I gave up.  Now he just has a free standing bowl and it's fine).

Thanks for all the support.  I'm glad it isn't as bad as it could be, and that there's still a bunch of things left to try, but geez I don't like knowing he is uncomfortable and I can't fix it right away.  I'm calling the vet tomorrow, hopefully we can get in tomorrow or Tuesday but I'll keep everyone updated.

We fed the Kirkland Lamb & Rice or Chicken & Rice to both of our dogs too and we still feed it to our older non-allergy dog, Buffy. Sassy had chronic ear infections and other allergy problems, so I switched her to NB Duck and Potato a few yrs ago. She literally hasn't had one ear infection since then, so I know those were food related, but she continued to have other skin problems and her feet were the worst issue. I did an elimination diet using pork and buckwheat for 10 wks and it showed not change at all, so I ruled out that food was still the culprit. We eventually had the allergy testing done and sure enough, she's allergic to just about everything. Hopefully you won't have the same problems, but the key is trying to keep a handle on things before they turn into skin infections, so keep your eye on that. The discoloration after urinating seems to indicate a trip to the vet is in order. I'm not sure a change in foods will cure anything, but it might be worth trying some of the allergy formulas that NB makes. 

I like the Kirkland's food, though I liked it better when they still had their canned food as well, along with "matching" biscuits.  Since the great dog food recalls last year they haven't had either, I'm a bit sad about that. But it's really good food for the price and I think the only reason it keeps sticking in my head is that it's been a recent start to a new bag.  A 40# bag lasts something like 10 weeks for Sammy.  It doesn't have an overload of ingredients either, at least compared to some, although it's certainly not an allergy formula. NB might be a good way to go since it's at least still fuly balanced.

I'm actually seriously considering switching to homecooked since Callie mentioned it.  There's a lot I need to research first and maybe someone is willing to share some recipes, etc, but if I go that route I would try to start with something akin to an elimination diet.  I think I might also need to look into craigslist for a freezer, though I dont' really know where I could put it.

If we end up at the point where we do allergy testing -- either environmental or food -- are there certain tests that are better than others?  Anything special to ask for?

Our vet is open 8a-8p so I'm hoping to get in after work.  If worse comes to worse DH can take him but he never knows what questions to ask so I prefer to be there if possible.  Thankfully I don't suspect skin infections but when our trainer and i were talking about a possible UTI/infection she said maybe the skin being all red and irritated allowed an infection of sorts to enter... so maybe there's more going on there than I'm aware of.  Either way at least a vet visit will look at everything.

NicoleS

when they still had their canned food as well, along with "matching" biscuits.  Since the great dog food recalls last year they haven't had either, I'm a bit sad about that.

Well, that's interesting cause I've never seen the canned version, but we've always bought the matching biscuits and DH just bought a big box of them a few weeks ago. I know different Costcos carry different things, so maybe that explains it. I agree that it's a good quality food for the price and Buffy loves it.

I thought about continuing with home cooking after the elimination diet but like you, I just didn't have enough freezer space nor a place to put another freezer. I bought a couple of the Monica Segal pamphlets on diets though, and they're not expensive and not complicated. You can order them thru her website - monicasegal.com. You can also join a forum she moderates - k9kitchen.com (I think that's the name of it).

As for allegy testing, many people claim that the skin test is the best way to go. My derm vet felt that the blood test would give us the results we needed (she does both types) and it didn't require taking Sassy off the benadryl prior to the testing. If cost isn't a factor and you don't have to worry about the benadryl issue, I'd probably opt for the skin test.

I hope you're able to get some answers from you vet visit tomorrow. I learned the hard way not to send DH to vet appts, so hopefully yours is better or you can make it. I'd usually torture DH afterwards with a million questions and lots of "didn't you ask....?" - poor guy

cakana

I learned the hard way not to send DH to vet appts, so hopefully yours is better or you can make it. I'd usually torture DH afterwards with a million questions and lots of "didn't you ask....?" - poor guy

LOL that's exactly it!  He also doesn't really question anything, he just assumes I'll know what to do so he listens and that's it.  DH has a vast number of strengths and things he is better at than I, but this just might not be one of them.

I'm hoping they can get us in today.... too bad the vet is close to home, which is almost an hour from work so it's totally not feasible for me to take a long lunch or something.  But, I'll cross my fingers.

ETA -- I am very jealous you can still get Kirklands biscuits, but it lends itself to ours getting them again if they still make them.  Comment cards here I come!  I think I got them two or three times and that was it ....

I always suggest starting a diary when dealing with allergies.  I have a template you can use at http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pSU3Cb4Ji8I89FykA2YFVFQ&hl=en  But anything will do with allergies, really.

I've heard the blood tests are pretty much a waste of money with dogs.  I think that's right.  jessies-mom (Janice) actually did some testing that she's happy with so she'll know.  Her dog wasn't primarily allergic to food, but she ended up homecooking anyway - it's really the only thing that makes sense for allergies severe enough to cause health issues.

I'd recommend an elimination diet also.  Monica Segal has a booklet called Allergy Problems that can help you get started.  YOu don't have to worry about "balancing" an elimination diet because it's a short term solution.  Then she has a pamplet of cooked diet recipes (and raw diet recipes in another pamphlet) to get you started. 

If you'd rather work with ingredients you have handy, or that you'd rather feed for some reason, or need a simpler diet, you can do a consult with either Monica or Sabine Contreras at Better Dog Care.  Both are cheaper than what you will spend in a single "emergency" visit to the vet for allergic flareups of the kind you describe, not to mention testing, steroid treatments, and allergy shots.

If you are more confident, you can develop something on your own and run that by a nutritional consultant.  That's less spendy but more time and research.  That's what I do because I prefer the control of saying - "I want a recipe that uses these ingredients in these proportions."  Sabine (Mordanna) is especially good at that.

A freezer is definitely a must if you go this route  You don't need a giant freezer for just one dog - I only use three shelves of my commercial upright, plus the door, for my six dogs (the weekly stuff goes in the door, the pre-prepped and bulk items go on the shelves).  But a freezer is nice to have anyway with food prices going up - buying in bulk and prepping ahead is a good thing to save money feeding people too.

A quick update.

Thanks for all the advice!  I'm really learning a lot here.....  We had our vet appt last night, Sammy has prednisone and an antibiotic (clavamox I think -- the dog version of augmentin).  The vet thought we should see what this does before worrying about the food just yet.  I did get Sammy different kibble since he really has an issue with this particular bag so I got Wellness for now. 

The vet said the bumps on the belly might just be pressure bumps from irritation from laying that way, he's not keen on lumping it together with itchy paws just yet.  The antibiotics are for the discharge after peeing, and the vet saw some crusties as well. 

We have a short course of the steroids -- 10mg 2x a day for 3 days, then once a day for 3 days then every other day for the last few doses.  I think I will use that time to decide if I want to try an elimination diet with kibble (ie, a natural balance or similar) or home cooked, or if we think it was specific to that bag of food.  Homecooked for an elimination diet at least would be fairly simple since I don't have to balance it really, it would probably just mean picking up a small chest freezer or something.  Sammy has NEVER been picky nor turned down food so that speaks volumes to me.  Supposedly Costco hasn't had any other complaints, but one never knows.

We also did blood work -- I'm waiting for them to mail me the results, but the vet called and said everything was OK except a few clinically insignificant values were borderline -- hemoglobin and something related to that.  But, he said it wasn't anything to worry about right now.  We have blood work from a year and a half or two years ago so once I get the values in front of me I can compare.  We couldn't do the urinalysis since Sammy had to pee when I got home from work and our vet appt was right after that so he wouldn't do for me other than some mild marking that I couldn't catch.  If I can get a good sample in the next day or two I can drop it off but with him starting prednisone, it will probably make him drink a lot so it will be dilute and not of as much value. 

Anyway... hopefully in the next few weeks we can start to rule things out and then worry about food or something environmental. I'm still going to be overly cautious about him being exposed to things in the house and perhaps sooner rather than later try something with the food.

You probably already know this but since I didn't and was unprepared, I'll share anyway. Yes, he will drink of ton of water want/need to go pee very often. I didn't realize how bad it could be until Sassy emptied her entire bladder on the carpet one day while on Pred. She'd never once had an accident in the house and it surprised us both.

I hope the meds help clear things up. Sassy had an episode about 2 yrs ago where almost overnight, her toes swelled up and she could barely walk. She hadn't been itching or licking them at that time, so I'm not sure what brought it on. That was the last time she had to be on pred and the results were amazing and fast. The swelling was down by the next day. We finished the course of them anyway and whatever it was has never happened again. I know there's a lot of downsides to pred, but sometimes it's really necessary.

I was warned about the drinking, and eating as well, but I'm sure I'll still be surprised when I see it.  I hope he's OK for the time he has to spend at home, alone, the next couple days.  He only had one dose this AM and he doesn't get a ton of water in his bowl in his crate, but tomorrow and Thursday might be interesting in those regards. 

It's only a short course of steroids, so I'm not as worried about it, although the vet did say he normally wouldn't do antibiotics and pred at the same time since it might lead to some immunosuppression, but he thought it was OK for the next couple weeks. I hope it clears things up, too, thanks!

 I did call Kirklands and am awaiting a return call.  I left a message the other day but got sick of waiting so I just spoke with a human today.  Maybe they changed something with this batch?  I store the food in another container, but I've been keeping the production codes from the bag and I'm glad I did that.

After all the problems with the tainted food and the recalls, you're very smart to be cautious. I believe that Diamond makes the food for Kirkland, but I'm not 100% sure. I'm currently feeding it to my other dog and she hasn't had any problems. It's the burgundy colored bag, but I'm not sure if that's the lamb or chicken. If you find out anything from Kirklands, please let me know.

We just had the kirklands in the green bag - the lamb.  the maroon one is chicken I believe and we just finished one of those without incident. And it is made by Diamond.  They are going to call the plant and get back to me within a day or two.  They took all my information and if I send in the product code and such they said I could get a refund, but the guy at the store also said I could get a refund so I might just do that.

Ok -- you asked and I'll tell you.  Monica's actually a good friend of mine and I've known her for years.  I've used her diets MANY times. 

However ...

They can be intimidating.  Let me just say this.  You feed yourself don't you?  Have you died from malnutrition yet?  Probably not. 

Home cooking can be very complicated and daunting -- don't let it be.  I don't use a recipe.  I know the basics and things to watch for.  But for me, I essentially let variety balance things.  I vary meat sources, I vary veggies, I vary oils, I vary Omega 3's -- I even vary calcium. 

Why?  cos it works. Roughly I do a diet that's about 30 - 35% meat and the rest is veggie.   Some weeks I add grain (if someone's tummy has been upset because the food's maybe been too 'rich' I might add grain, or maybe it wound up being a little too 'wet' this week so I added some barley or rice to thicken it.).

Most weeks I do 3-6 veggies. 

I don't have a freezer.  I don't have a big fridge.  I live in Flooor-daaa so I don't use my oven (I don't make meatloaf for ME much less the dogs LOL).  I cook my dogfood in a tabletop roaster (which is a faster version of a slow-cooker essentially).  I cook the hard veggies first (I just bought myself a food processor a month ago -- been cooking dog food without one for about 35 years now).  Squash, kale, sweet taters, cabbage, and/or crunchy stuff.

I scoop out the cooked veg with a seive and plop it in a dishpan (one I use for this every week).  I toss in the next veggies (things not as hard, things that don't require so much cooking -- often frozen veggies like turnip greens, okra, etc.)

While that cooks I mash up the first bunch with a potato masher.  Usually I add a can of diced tomato, and if I"m short on squash/orange veggies I add a can of solid pack pumpkin -- usually put my calcium in while I"m mushing up veggies.  I use a store bought calcium powder.

The meat gets cooked last or next to last.  Usually I'm lazy and buy it ground.  I might buy heart or liver and cut that up in cubes (I do organ meat once a month if possible).  Don't overcook the meat.  Like I said, if it's really soupy I add barley (yes, I use quick cook barley or oats -- I work and I gotta survive).

I just keep adding the last cooked thing and mush it with the potato masher.  When it's all cool I put it in containers.  Generally I cook once a week.  That's the goal.  I don't cook for David and I most evenings -- I can't cook dogfood mid-week without it being a major hassle. 

But that's as scientific as it gets. 

You feed yourself.  You can add some supplements if you need/want to.  You read up on "calcium/phosphorous ratio".  You experiement with veggies you have perhaps never eaten in YOUR life.

I'd never had kale in my life til I cooked it for the dogs.  The only 'canned' thing I use is tomato -- because I don't want the salt that's in canned veggies. 

You learn as you go.  Don't expect to know it all the first week -- but they'll be happy with whatever you do.  Trust me.  One week that isn't 'balanced?  Don't stress it -- you'll make much up if you vary everything widely. 

I grew up in a home where Sunday was chicken, mashed potatos and corn.  Monday?  Meatloaf, baked potato and peas.  Tuesday?  Smoked pork chops, mashed potato and ... corn.  Wednesday?  Steak, baked potato and peas.  Thursday was leftovers and peas and corn.

Friday was "grocery day" -- so it was usually something unusual.

Saturday was hamburgers or steak, baked potato and ... maybe chef salad (and that was lettuce and a sliced up tomato and carrot pennies). whoo hooo!!

Week in and week out.  I thot vegetables were represented in Merriam Webster by a picture of an ear of corn and a bowl of peas.

It was what my Dad liked.  I *thot* that was veggies. 

I had a lot to learn ... and honestly?  I still hate cooked carrots! LOL

Callie, you made me laugh out loud!  I was actually talking to a surgical resident at work about it, she has a greyhound and he's like her child just like Sammy is to us, he just had to have surgery so she's been giving him "people" food rather than dog food since he lost 15% body weight in a week... and one of her comments was that I could probably feed Sammy the same thing we eat for dinner every day and he'd be fine.  Just make a 3rd plate.  It just fit so well with your post!

We eat a very boring diet -- both of us like things "normal" and "plain" -- I rarely use condiments, don't care for many sauces and nothing in the least "exotic" so you are very right that I would need to experiment with things I have never HEARD of!

 Sammy, however, won't touch a veggie with a 10ft pole so hopefully if it's mushed with meat that will be a different story.  The only time he ate a bit of carrot was when it was slow-cooked with a roast for some 8 hours.  Maybe I'll try making something and "supplementing" with it for a little while first, just to make sure I don't make a week's worth of something he isn't keen on.

I like to buy things on sale.... so I probably wouldn't last long without a freezer.  I already shop at costco so we buy 10lbs chicken, or 6lbs ground turkey for us, usually we can't even fit anything extra other than maybe a carton of ice cream.  And although I don't really mind cooking, I more do it because it's cheaper than eating out.  So even once a week might be pushing it once it loses the novel-ness.

Thanks for all the help...  It really does seem like Sammy is better about his paws already. Perhaps the tea, perhaps the pred starting, perhaps my imagination but it's a start.  Even if it turns out not to be food-related in the least, even having to worry about whether there is something horribly wrong with his kibble just isn't worth it. I keep envisioning another huge food recall or something...

So someone from Kirkland's called me back -- basically they are telling me it was a singular event, probably related to them using natural preservatives and either not spraying enough fat/flavor on, or the bag being exposed to extreme conditions like high heat.  Personally, I didn't really like their excuses since she mentioned the bag being on a hot truck in the summer and starting to go bad -- well, you as a manufacturer need to control that, not use it as an excuse!  And, Sammy doesn't turn down ANYTHING -- so that clearly indicates a substantial issue to me.  She tried to tell me just to buy another bag and be done with it.  Yeah, right.....  not sure about that one.

Anyway, the store gave me a refund.  So that's all good.

The pred is definitely working, his paws look better and he spends 10 minutes at a time peeing, LOL.  The tea was definitely helping as well, although we had also changed food so maybe they both helped?

Callie --- when you cook your dogs' food, do you give them anything for their teeth/chewing, like RMBs or other things?  Will the soft food eventually cause teeth problems?  I think I'm going to experiment and try feeding him kibble in the AM and something home cooked for dinner and see how that goes.  I'm still trying to see how much of a cost (short-term) this will be over kibble (I know long-term its cheaper since the dog is usually healthier, etc but that doesn't help with the economy at the moment) ... esp since kirklands is only $21-23/40lbs and I couldn't believe some of the prices when I went out to find something the other night.  I think it will cost more homecooked than kirkland's but not much more than a lot of other kibbles.  We bought a bag of Wellness just to get us past this week and it was 50% off and still over $1/lb.  It's just a bit of sticker shock since I haven't bought kibble from a pet store in a long time.   No wonder so many folks are having issues feeding their dogs, geez!

Again, not speaking for Callie but when I was homecooking, I found that pork was the least expensive meat I could find on a fairly regular basis. I could often find pork shoulder or inexpensive cuts like that for around $1.50 a pound. If there was any bone, it was small, so almost all of it was usable. I just threw the whole thing in a crockpot with a little liquid and cooked it. I then took the pork out and used the liquid to cook the buckwheat. It was pretty easy and not horribly expensive. It was certainly cheaper than the NB Duck and Potato I buy now. I also gave Sassy raw pork shoulder bones and she was able to completely consume them, but got some chewing fun out of them at the same time. I did have one episode where she vomitted later and it was mostly bits of bone, but I'm told that's not unusual or a huge concern.

The response you got from Kirklands doesn't sit well with me either and I will be keeping an even closer eye on the dog food and Buffy to make sure things are okay.