This just plain makes me cry (Callie

Callie, when the first article came out about him leaving nine kids at the ER, they didn't give any details.  When I read that second article this a.m.  I was just speechless. I wondered how none of his friends or neighbors saw the situation he was in, but some people are very good at hiding what's really going on.  I have to give him credit for taking the kids someplace safe instead of doing some really horrible thing to end his misery.  Now that his story is out, I'll bet help starts pouring in for him and the kids.

Joyce

Goes to show you can't believe everything you read.  This story was in our local paper this morning.  The story was written to imply that this was a case of just not wanting the hassle of taking care of these kids.  How sad for this man and his children.  I hope they can be reunited.  Note to self, don't make snap judgements on too little information.

 What are those poor kids going to learn from that experience?? Wow, to have your mum die and your dad just abandon you like that.... 

That poor man.  I feel so bad for him.  That amount of grief and struggle is enough to affect anyone and I suppose it's better to at least have the children cared for rather than in danger of neglect or even abuse from a parent who is struggling to that extent and who simply cannot cope. 

I'm just imagining driving to a hospital with Will and.... leaving him behind, never going back for him.  At first he might wait, as he does every day at nursery... thinking that eventually, SURELY I'd go back...  What could he have SAID to those kids?  How could he justify it?  How did it ever even appear an option to leave them, especially the youngest and most vulnerable??  Assuming he is an otherwise loving father.... these are not the actions of a person in their right mind and as such should, IMO, be viewed as a cry for HELP.... like a suicide attempt.  This is just going to eat him up forever.

I wondered why the relatives who offered to take some of the kids now didn't help before this.  Perhaps he was afraid or ashamed to ask for help.  I also wondered why the oldest daughter, who helped take care of them, didn't call somebody, not because it was *her* responsibility to do so, but she must have realized things were very wrong.

I couldn't have left my son, though when he was a teen and at his worst...oooh the temptation.  But I think as a woman attachment is stronger with the mother simply because we carried them inside.

It's a tough situation no matter how you slice it.

sharismom

I also wondered why the oldest daughter, who helped take care of them, didn't call somebody, not because it was *her* responsibility to do so, but she must have realized things were very wrong.

I don't know... sometimes when you're in the middle of a terrible situation your sense of "normal" gets so badly distorted that you often can't see quite how bad things really are. And the unknown is scary - sometimes the miserable situation you know can feel more "safe" than whatever unknown things might happen if you took action to try to change things.

I would like to express my view and it's based on how I was raised and the example set forth by my mother. Many times, she went without new clothes. She gave up many luxuries. She would work 12 and 14 hours a day, 6 sometimes 7 days a week. The amount and extent of her sacrifice cannot be totalled and it was to provide for my brother and me. When she was a child, there were times her mom would surrender her and our aunt to the Buckner Baptist Home for Children, and they would stay there until grandma and great-grandma got through whatever rough financial patch. My mother vowed with her last drop of blood that would never happen to us and such a thing never happened to us. When I say that my mom was stubborn, I don't think most people get the full picture. She taught herself computer programming, mainly on IBM 360 Mainframe and learned Assembler, Cobol, Fortran, RPG I, and RPG II. And became a software engineer, thought it was called systems engineer back in the 70's and early 80's. She did it without a high school diploma or college diploma, in a male-dominated field. With headaches and remnants of the crippling Rheumatoid Arthritis she had as a teenager. And two boys as stubborn as she was. So, when I say that she had more guts in her pinkie finger than most men have in their whole body, it's not an exaggeration.

So this male should have done what it takes to care for his children. It's hard finding a job if you're too good to dig ditches or clean up construction sites or any number of physical jobs that go begging for help. True, they don't make much money but a little money is better than no money. He could have asked for help. Granted, he is helping maybe by surrendering his children, rather than have them go without but I don't see what much difference there is if his wife was pregnant and not able to work and support his "I'm too good to dig ditches" hide. But a real man figures out a solution. A real man does whatever it takes to provide for his family. Sometimes, that may take swallowing some of that pride and asking the family for help. But that would still mean he has to go out and get a job.

If I seem judgemental, consider that I do my job whether it is raining or blistering heat or freezing cold. More than once, recently, I have unloaded truck loads (as in 45 foot trailers crammed full) of light fixtures in the rain, soaked to the skin, boots sloshing with every step. I have dug ditches in 105 F in August and I have dug a ditch in 28 F in February. Without crying about it.

I'm not going to guess why they had to have 10 children but I don't consider families a disposable option. If you are old enough to reproduce, you are old enough to take responsibility. What would he have done if the law did not allow this?

The only easy day was yesterday.

But I do hope the family can find a way to repair themselves.

Ron, I'm of the same 'get it done' kind of person -- And I'm not taking a side here.  I was simply struck by the "pain".

If you read it there's a LOT there that's unsaid.  Bad decisions? I bet there was a boat-load.  Grief-stricken?  I'd bet inability to grieve properly is a big huge part of this. He *quit* his job apparently because he felt unable to take care of them properly.  I'd bet close to half of them were teenagers (I'm thinking of the pressure kids are under to 'have' things and how easy it is for kids to get in trouble? 

I'm betting there is a huge enormous whole story behind all of this -- again, not to judge, just that I'd bet this is So complicated... and yeah, part of my thots are **WHY** didn't family know, find out, care ... ??? I'm just seeing so much pain in this story it's unreal.

Look at what little is said about the 18 year old.  a little but a ***whole lot** actually.  She's already graduated and a year early.  The oldest doesn't get all the way thru her senior year having just lost her mother, graduate **early** and not have some pretty deep-rooted serious family values implanted there. 

I'll bet a whole story comes out ... but like I said, it wouldn't be what I'd do, but then again, that kind of pain in a complicated family dynamic. 

The last thot I had was which one of those kids feels like the "last straw"??  Who came home with instructions that they had to have some new "thing" for school that they *HAD* to have that he couldn't provide ... or who got in a fight with whom over what ... or who got into trouble at school or somewhere else ...

Something was the flash point.  And chances are at least four of those kids are feeling 'guilty'. 

Shoot -- I was an only child and I remember when my Grandfather died -- I was supposed to go *visit* him and Gram had told me he was all excited that I was coming to visit.  Well, I was 13 and was a very typical self-absorbed 13 year old girl and I knew Gramps hadn't approved of some things I'd said/done so I was pretty conflicted about going to stay with them.  And then before we could get there Gramps had a heart attack and died.  In my 13 year old mind, I was convinced I had killed him.  He was "excited" and I knew I'd been a brat the last time I'd seen him, so to my young mind that translated to enormous guilt.  Guilt I carried until I was an adult.  And shoot -- I had to go a LONG way to convince myself I was somehow "at fault". 

But think of those kids -- my heart just breaks for the whole family -- and yeah, people will step up to the plate now because it's high profile, but wow ... the damage is big and it's done.

Bad decisions.  Bad laws.  People being convinced that the government will be their answer because they 'can't' somehow.  It's just such a commentary on this whole time we're seeing. 

I was reared so much in the same vein as Ron.  But the thing that really grieves me today is altho I may be willing to eat dirt so my kids can have food, there's such a widespread mentality today that our young folks are being taught to expect (by the media, school, everything they come in contact with) that you are allowed to cry "foul" and accuse Mom and Dad of not doing enough.  Such a stigma that going "without" isn't an option -- but if you go to this agency, or apply for that, or ... something else, that you'll magically be "given" stuff. 

In Nebraska this is just after the start of school.  The last few years just seeing the published "lists" of what each child is supposed to have for school ... wow, it's scarey.  You can't start school with a ream of paper, one notebook and a few pencils any more.  I can't even imagine those lists times 10. 

I'm still just sitting here shaking my head at the amount of accumulated "pain" I see in all of that.  The next thing I expect to see is that he just got a foreclosure notice.

In the first place, a lot of men aren't all that "hands on" with taking care of  the kids so he probably had no idea what was actually involved in caring for that many until everything involving them was on his shoulders.  Also, he had a job.  He lost it because of all the "at home" stuff he had to deal with.  No job meant he had no way to pay his rent or utilities or buy food ... much less buy back to school stuff for nine. I don't know what the economic situation is in his corner of the world so it's possible that he has been looking for another job and unable to find one.  It's just sad that he wasn't able to reach out to family or friends for a bit of help before it came to this. It's very easy to say "he should have done this or that" but really ... until we've walked in somebody elses shoes...

Joyce

Ron I understand what you mean and believe me my mom was the same, it taught me to have the same values and I have gone days with out eating more than a very small snack or a bowl of cereal to make sure my girls never did without.  Now raising 5 of my grandkids we are cutting back once more, few dog shows, fewer nights out to dinner and all of out travel is in the States now, we can no longer afford to go abroad. So the plans we had for so many years that we would retire and travel the world  etc   poof out the window like a dust bunny. No real regrets.

BUT like Callie, and no I am not taking sides either.. Last year an Aisian Father  , in Mobile Alabama took his 3 very young kids and since he was frantic about the wife leaving, since he had been without steady work for some time, the house was in foreclosure , the bill collectors all calling day and night.. so he drove the kids out to dinner and then then to a very tall bridge where he THREW them off one by one. The kids died and even after weeks of searching only 1-2 bodies were ever recovered.   He went to the police after doing it and turned himself in. The neighborhood and community built a roadside shrine to the kids, the youngest had never even had his picture taken.... toys and flowers , cards and letters of outrage were in abundance.   WHY weren't they there when this guy was falling apart? Why don't we as the most Powerful Country in the World , have a backup plan for parents breaking into little pieces in front of us? If we can bail out Banks, Countries and support world leaders who were kicked out of office WHY can't we take care of our own??  As a community we wept for these kids.... as a community we failed the father, his job vanished and we did nothing to help, welfare in Alabama for a family of 3 is approx 300.00 a month, sure you get medical and 150.00 in foods stamps but come one WHO can live on what is given?? and should they get a few hours at a fast food etc that comes out of your benefits!   Unemplyoment for someone like my husband who was a top earner is less than 200.00 a week. If you are a waitress it is much less.

As a country we have our priorities messed up!! Free another country? Bail out the rest of the World?? fine but ONLY after our own are cared for.  Somehow we are protecting the Places like Saudi Arabia from encroaching fanatics and they have a ski slope built in the dessert allowing them to drive in expensive cars to the mall and then bundle up in the artificially created snow..... sure that is worth supporting our homelss veterens and the aged who can barely afford to get by must understand why we can not ask this wealthy country to cover the bill for the military support our nation sends...

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrghhh

Bonita of Bwana

 I can't judge this man, or any of the others that have abandoned their children to this Safe Haven thing.  People react differently in different situations.  Maybe things really were that bad.  BUT...the thought of bringing my children, my babies to a strange place and turning from them and walking away...forever...it hurts bad...just the thought.  Free from prosecution?  Geez, I'd be praying for it.

ron2

So this male should have done what it takes to care for his children.

I am being objective here, but I want to point out that depression can make it extremely difficult to take care of oneself, let alone someone else, no matter who it is, spouse, kids, pets..... Just getting out of bed can be the most physically and emotionally challenging thing in the world when you are depressed, most times you can't see the light at the end of the tunnel. There is joy in nothing. Depression typically causes people to withdraw from others, for many reasons or no reason.

My heart aches for this family....all of them. Thank goodness the kids are safe and he didn't do something even more desperate. My mom put me in a foster home at the age of 15 (for reasons I still do not fully understand), depression runs in my family and I have struggled with it for what seems like my entire life (can't take meds, they make me suicidal ~ I learned the hard way).

I feel tons of compassion for all of them and I hope that he doesn't do something to himself that he can't live to regret or mend. I truly hope he gets the help he needs. Sadly, it happens time and time again that it takes something of this magnitude for help to arrive. It's just sad, sad, sad.... all the way around.

Another problem IMO is that people tend to lead kind of isolated lives nowadays, some neighborhoods more than others.  People can live in the same house for 20 years and still only know their next door neighbors by sight or just to wave to.  It's possible he didn't feel like he knew anyone well enough to ask for help, but I'll bet if he had been able to let someone else know his situation he could have gotten help at least with the smaller kids that were home during the day.

Joyce

You raise a good point about depression. And I'm not saying the guy didn't have challenges. And I would certainly have limits. I would have only had two, maybe three children, not ten. But the point of how I was raised is that the children are my responsibility, whether I feel like it or not, healthy or not. I can admit that surrendering them might have been the best decision but while we're busy feeling sorry for this guy, what about the children? You want to talk about some emotional trauma? You're mom is dead and your Daddy doesn't want you anymore. You're too much trouble and not worth keeping. Not because you're a brat, but because you exist and are a burden. Considered such by someone who was creative and healthy enough to sire but not to finish the job and see you through to adulthood.

ron2

what about the children? You want to talk about some emotional trauma? You're mom is dead and your Daddy doesn't want you anymore. You're too much trouble and not worth keeping. Not because you're a brat, but because you exist and are a burden. Considered such by someone who was creative and healthy enough to sire but not to finish the job and see you through to adulthood.

That was exactly my point when I said which kid gets to feel like "the straw that broke the camel's back".  or "the last straw" -- I hope they follow this -- but given that the oldest girl not only finished school while Mom died, but she finished *early* I have a feeling there is more ... WAY more ... here than meets the eye.  And I'd bet the guilt (collectively and individually) that they all felt like they were "too much for Dad to handle" is probably so deep -- but the oldest sister has been helping keep the family together so I have a feeling this is likely complicated.  She's obviously put her own life on hold to help out at home.

It's all just such a slippery slope -- I've been thru h$ll and back and I remember So clearly how incredibly powerless I felt while my ex was self-destructing, and being reduced to eating broken boxes of cereal and dented cans of Chicken with Rice soup from the church cupboard (the Church we were going to *now* because I had become too embarassed at what my ex tried to talk the last one out of .... *sigh*) and even after I finally got rid of him, his final 'blow' was to get me fired from my (very good) job and I was back to working temp and eating tomato sandwiches to survive.

It was just me and the dogs -- sliding out of control can happen so fast in a good financial climate.  Remember back during the stock market crash before the Depression there were folks hurling themselves out of high buildings in despair.  And yeah, Bonita - I thot of the same story.  The man who "killed" his 3 children (and folks that often happens but we usually see it as 'domestic violence' not abandonment). 

Like I keep saying -- I was just so swamped with "pain" when I read that.  My emphathic nature -- but my gut feeling is that this ... like in a lot of situations ... isn't just a money thing.  It's an emotional ... coping ... hurting thing.