New Study on Aggressive Dogs from the UK

little dogs are about the same. they act the sh*t to run you off but if really hard pressed they'll turn and run like hell. at the very least they'll circle around to get out of reach and still come at you.. it isnt a fight drive like with other breeds.

I don't think I believe this. I had to pry a JRT off a huge Dane's throat once, and it then proceeded to attack me and sad to say I kicked it several times and it didn't back off until the owner came and yelled at it. Definitely NOT fear-based aggression.

I was bit in the face by a GSD when I was a toddler, but don't remember it.  I probably jumped on the dog while he was sleeping.  There were puncture marks on my face, but he showed good bite inhibition, considering the size and power of the breed.

Recently, I was chased by a Chi twice while on vacation in Florida.  I brought my bike along and only used it for two days b/c both times this dog came after me, snapping at my ankles.  We are also routinely chased down and bit in the legs and ankles by a mini-Dachshund near our house.  Fear aggression?  I think not!  I have seen the dog escape from his yard and cross the street to chase down and bite my neighbor when she jogged by.  We always approach the house with caution, since we are getting rather tired of having to kick this dog off of our legs and our dogs. 

Personally, I don't really care what studies say which dogs bite.  I think it's all relative to the popularity and sheer numbers of the breed, as well as breeding, training, and socialization.  If everyone would just accept personal responsibility for their dogs instead of trying to blame little dogs for being ankle-biters or blame big dogs for making little dogs feel insecure.... 

I think it depends on the dog, and the owner. As others have said I don't believe that any excuses can be made. You may very well have a dog that has aggressive tendencies, but if you do it's your responsibility to control it. End of story. Period. I have met LOTS of agressive doxies, Chi's and JRT's and would rather battle a big boy ANY day. I am the owner of a VERY territorial (as he should be) Great Pyrenees. I researched the breed BEFORE I got one, I knew what I was getting into and I take my responsibilities seriously. He is very protective, but he is also controlled and I feel that all dogs, regardless of size should be. If your dog isn't it, you should at least be working toward that goal.

Liesje

Fear aggression?  I think not! 

Mudpuppy

Definitely NOT fear-based aggression.

I thought pretty much all aggression, with the exception of a few cases, is fear-based - remember the whole  ' the best defense is a good offense' mantra?  Unless of course you believe in the whole 'dominance' thing.

How cute is that ???    She is adorable (but your son may sue you in the future for plastering his little buns on the net hee hee hee ) I agree with what you said, it comes down to the owners.  While she may not have been around kids you DID do a Great job of socializing her , and even more important in my eyes of allowing her to THINK.   People who rush to think for their dogs ruin them.

Bonita of Bwana

jenns

Liesje

Fear aggression?  I think not! 

Mudpuppy

Definitely NOT fear-based aggression.

I thought pretty much all aggression, with the exception of a few cases, is fear-based - remember the whole  ' the best defense is a good offense' mantra?  Unless of course you believe in the whole 'dominance' thing.

Personally I don't agree with that. My Great Pyrenees is a guardian breed. He protects his flock (my family) and his territory (our house and territory) I have no doubt in my mind that if we were seriously threatened he would bite someone. He is appropriately aggressive and it is not, by any indication I have seen, fear based. He will run to the fence and bark. If they walk closer he walks closer and his barks become louder and more intense. If they continue to approach (not many do) he will growl and bark. If they still continue he will growl and raise hackles, and if they still continue he will growl, raise hackles, show teeth, and hop back and forth (not towards them). No one has ever challenged him further. If we come out or tell him to stop he will stand between us and them blocking, on guard but not threatening until he decides to accept them or not. If he accepts them he will go and lay down, if he doesn't he will still go and lie down if told but will stay on alert. That is not fear based, but it is aggression. He is controllable, he is appropriate, he gives multiple and ample warnings, but I am absolutely sure he will bite if pushed. This is a dog that has been socialized, is VERY well trained, excellent with children, indifferent to other dogs. I did not train him to be this way, but was aware he would be this way when I decided on this breed. My yard is securely fenced, we have 'beware of dog' signs posted and I take full responsibility for owning an aggressive breed. Also, I will say, he is not what I would call "dominant" although I had thought he would be. He is a very loving and delightful boy, but I wouldn't suggest walking through my gate unannounced

mudpuppy

little dogs are about the same. they act the sh*t to run you off but if really hard pressed they'll turn and run like hell. at the very least they'll circle around to get out of reach and still come at you.. it isnt a fight drive like with other breeds.

I don't think I believe this. I had to pry a JRT off a huge Dane's throat once, and it then proceeded to attack me and sad to say I kicked it several times and it didn't back off until the owner came and yelled at it. Definitely NOT fear-based aggression.

lol i should have specified toy breeds like chihuahuas and the like.. not all little dogs. i cant say that i've ever heard of a case where a chihuahua tried to tear out a larger dogs throat. i've heard of them snapping at bigger dogs though. but never heard of a death match with a relentless chihuahua vs a german shepherd. or something like that. but i will never rule out "crazy dog with a death wish syndrome".... my grandmother had a pekeXpom that was demented like that. she named him Peanut but i called him the fluffy pit bull.. he would fight with anyone though, you, me or the dog next door. all the same to him. i dont know if his past had anything to do with (he was rescued from someone who teased him relentlessly) or if he aggressive because he was still intact.

i own a jack russell as you can see and she savaged a labrador's face, and bit the man trying to pry them apart. before it all began they had been allowing her and the lab to kill raccoons that trespassed in their back yard. i thought i was sending her to a good stable home and family in the suburbs... not a Free For All Saturday Night Smack Down with Mister Ringtail.... and about a month of being home with us she bolted out the door and promptly attacked Kaydee. Lucky little terrier, that much i'll say. but we havent had an issue with the two of them since then.

jacks have the same blood as a pit bull. i think they have been out crossed with each other at some point though not sure which one to what.... so the tenacity is there. couple that with no training or boundaries ... you get a psycho.

DumDog

mudpuppy

little dogs are about the same. they act the sh*t to run you off but if really hard pressed they'll turn and run like hell. at the very least they'll circle around to get out of reach and still come at you.. it isnt a fight drive like with other breeds.

I don't think I believe this. I had to pry a JRT off a huge Dane's throat once, and it then proceeded to attack me and sad to say I kicked it several times and it didn't back off until the owner came and yelled at it. Definitely NOT fear-based aggression.

 

lol i should have specified toy breeds like chihuahuas and the like.. not all little dogs. i cant say that i've ever heard of a case where a chihuahua tried to tear out a larger dogs throat. i've heard of them snapping at bigger dogs though. but never heard of a death match with a relentless chihuahua vs a german shepherd. or something like that. but i will never rule out "crazy dog with a death wish syndrome"....

Mudpuppy, I'm sure you don't really believe that it is typical for small dogs to want to tear the throats out of large dogs and viciouslly attack people.  Individual dogs with severe behavioral problems exist in any size and breed of dog...that sounds more like an explanation for the case you described.

SirDrakeOfTheCreek

 

 

jenns

Liesje

Fear aggression?  I think not! 

Mudpuppy

Definitely NOT fear-based aggression.

I thought pretty much all aggression, with the exception of a few cases, is fear-based - remember the whole  ' the best defense is a good offense' mantra?  Unless of course you believe in the whole 'dominance' thing.

Personally I don't agree with that. My Great Pyrenees is a guardian breed. He protects his flock (my family) and his territory (our house and territory) I have no doubt in my mind that if we were seriously threatened he would bite someone. He is appropriately aggressive and it is not, by any indication I have seen, fear based. He will run to the fence and bark. If they walk closer he walks closer and his barks become louder and more intense. If they continue to approach (not many do) he will growl and bark. If they still continue he will growl and raise hackles, and if they still continue he will growl, raise hackles, show teeth, and hop back and forth (not towards them). No one has ever challenged him further. If we come out or tell him to stop he will stand between us and them blocking, on guard but not threatening until he decides to accept them or not. If he accepts them he will go and lay down, if he doesn't he will still go and lie down if told but will stay on alert. That is not fear based, but it is aggression. He is controllable, he is appropriate, he gives multiple and ample warnings, but I am absolutely sure he will bite if pushed. This is a dog that has been socialized, is VERY well trained, excellent with children, indifferent to other dogs. I did not train him to be this way, but was aware he would be this way when I decided on this breed. My yard is securely fenced, we have 'beware of dog' signs posted and I take full responsibility for owning an aggressive breed. Also, I will say, he is not what I would call "dominant" although I had thought he would be. He is a very loving and delightful boy, but I wouldn't suggest walking through my gate unannounced

yeah he is acting like his breed should but what most are talking about, i think, is how a dog reacts off his turf with other dogs and people.

i own American Bulldogs and they do pretty much the threat display, but not quite as intense. they'll bark, or run the fence, but if the "intruder" - mail man? UPS? Jehova's witness? - continue on their path they get still and alert and actually stalk the person. they're reading their intentions through their body language. the mail man doesnt get out of his car. he KNOWS i have an I-fence and the dogs dont cross it, but he will sit there for ten minutes beeping his car horn until i come outside. the i-fence isnt close to the front porch, this he knows. but he isnt about to take chances. not because my dogs are bouncing around and barking. but because they have their eyes locked onto him.

outside the fence, in public i can take them both anywhere we're allowed and they'll both be pretty as you please- except for in the car. dont come near my car.
 but on leash they'll greet anyone. Ben is not my concern. he has been sheltered and will turn tail and run away, leaving a trail of pee behind him.. but Kaydee is my "loaded weapon" so to speak. she's serious. she means business when we're walking. on rare occasions she'll go on high alert around people. i can tell when she's not liking someone so i make it clear to them that they need to stay back and not come closer.

one Doofus said "she dont bite, huh?" and glared into her eyes and stepped towards her. she roared and launched up at him. she missed him on purpose. she could have easily yanked that leash out of my hands, or kept pulling to get to him (i was about 7 months preggo at the time!) but that was all she needed. he challenged her, glared at her, advanced towards us both and that was unacceptable to her. She was more than happy when she skedaddled backwards about twenty feet. She was back to sitting by my side, but wasnt taking her eyes off him.

jenns

Liesje

Fear aggression?  I think not! 

Mudpuppy

Definitely NOT fear-based aggression.

I thought pretty much all aggression, with the exception of a few cases, is fear-based - remember the whole  ' the best defense is a good offense' mantra?  Unless of course you believe in the whole 'dominance' thing.

I don't know much about different theories of aggression.  To me, a dog backed into a corner that snaps when it's afraid and other warnings are ignored is a fear bite.  I don't get how a dog that makes a point of getting away from his owner to charge across the street and pursue someone down the block is being fearful.  Maybe if I went into his yard and started acting aggressively toward him, I'd expect and aggressive response.  I saw this dog bite my neighbor as she came jogging down the block.  She was listening to her iPod so she didn't even know he was there until he crossed the street and latched onto her ankle.  I don't call that a fearful dog, I call that a reactive dog that has totally inappropriate reactions to any moving dog or human, it seems.  Same thing with the Chi that came after me in Florida.  He crossed a highway and pursued me for nearly half a mile each time, with me biking hard!  The dog weighed half as much as my cat and yet I was almost afraid he'd actually get me, that bugger was mean and FAST!  Maybe the reactivity IS based on fear, but I think writing off all aggression as "fear" inadvertently places the blame on the other person or dog for inciting a fearful response and I don't think that is at all fair or appropriate. 

jenns

Individual dogs with severe behavioral problems exist in any size and breed of dog...that sounds more like an explanation for the case you described.

thats what i was thinking too. someone let that dog go wild. 

DumDog

i'm still hunting info on badger dogs and just how its done. honestly its not going to be an easy research task because badgers are fiercely protected and to hunt one against the law - even if they are common pest. People do still hunt them but they dont talk about it. you cant even go near a badger den in some areas of the UK unless you want to tangle with the law. So to ask a question like "So how do you hunt badgers with Teckels" in an open forum is like asking "Where can i get a fix?"

I might be on a different page here because when *I* say "badger", I mean THIS:

Badgers are also protected in the UK, but that doesn't stop certain people.  Badgers are usually hunted either by digging out or dazzling them with bright lights and then using guns or dogs to kill them.  Often the badger is captured rather than killed and then baited - that is to say, put against a relay of dogs, for as long as it takes until the badger dies (and badgers being as tough, strong and tenacious as they are, that can take hours).  It's nasty.  If you want links that describe the methods of badger  hunting/baiting I know a few, so PM me.... but as I say, I could be on a different page to you because things might be totally different there.

(PS.  I like OUR badgers better!  ) 

Edit to add - More on badgers!

Badgers 

Sorry, waaaay OT, carry on....
 

Liesje

I don't know much about different theories of aggression.  To me, a dog backed into a corner that snaps when it's afraid and other warnings are ignored is a fear bite.  I don't get how a dog that makes a point of getting away from his owner to charge across the street and pursue someone down the block is being fearful.  Maybe if I went into his yard and started acting aggressively toward him, I'd expect and aggressive response.  I saw this dog bite my neighbor as she came jogging down the block.  She was listening to her iPod so she didn't even know he was there until he crossed the street and latched onto her ankle.  I don't call that a fearful dog, I call that a reactive dog that has totally inappropriate reactions to any moving dog or human, it seems.  Same thing with the Chi that came after me in Florida.  He crossed a highway and pursued me for nearly half a mile each time, with me biking hard!  The dog weighed half as much as my cat and yet I was almost afraid he'd actually get me, that bugger was mean and FAST!  Maybe the reactivity IS based on fear, but I think writing off all aggression as "fear" inadvertently places the blame on the other person or dog for inciting a fearful response and I don't think that is at all fair or appropriate. 

I've also had multiple dogs who have charged from their property like they were hungry for blood only to stop so many feet away and continue to bark.  Any movements toward them, and they would tuck tail and scurry back a few feet before reattempting their display.

Still though I might consider their aggression/reactivity to be fear related, I would never blame it on other people.  Instead I consider their reaction to be an inappropriate way to deal with their often unfounded fear.  It's up to the owner to restrain and help teach their dog a more acceptable way to deal with his insecurities and conquer his fears. 

As for the chi, if it is a regular offender, please call animal control.  That dog is an accident waiting to happen.  My dad was lucky not to have been seriously injured last time a little chi mix streaked out of a yard and in front of his bike tire, throwing him hard to the ground.  It was also a wonder the dog survived without any injuries.
 

Chuffy

DumDog

i'm still hunting info on badger dogs and just how its done. honestly its not going to be an easy research task because badgers are fiercely protected and to hunt one against the law - even if they are common pest. People do still hunt them but they dont talk about it. you cant even go near a badger den in some areas of the UK unless you want to tangle with the law. So to ask a question like "So how do you hunt badgers with Teckels" in an open forum is like asking "Where can i get a fix?"

 

I might be on a different page here because when *I* say "badger", I mean THIS:

Badgers are also protected in the UK, but that doesn't stop certain people.  Badgers are usually hunted either by digging out or dazzling them with bright lights and then using guns or dogs to kill them.  Often the badger is captured rather than killed and then baited - that is to say, put against a relay of dogs, for as long as it takes until the badger dies (and badgers being as tough, strong and tenacious as they are, that can take hours).  It's nasty.  If you want links that describe the methods of badger  hunting/baiting I know a few, so PM me.... but as I say, I could be on a different page to you because things might be totally different there.

 

(PS.  I like OUR badgers better!  ) 

 

Edit to add - More on badgers!

Badgers 

Sorry, waaaay OT, carry on....
 

no i think we're about on the same page. the folks i talk to are in a UK based hunting forum - only one i could find at the time - and while we do have a slew of poachers there, most of them are hush hush about what they do after dark. no ones ever mentioned badger hunting. only a passing phrase about pesky badgers and how illegal they are. if anyone there really was baiting them i doubt they'd say anything! and this is a bunch of men who drink as much as they like to brag.

as far as badger hunting goes in the US, we have a limited season where ever badgers live and i believe they are most often taken via traps. and that was just a short google on them. lol even when i typed in US Badger Hunting i got UK websites on the UK badger controversy! 

i didnt know they killed cows and carried TB! 

DumDog

SirDrakeOfTheCreek

 

 

jenns

Liesje

Fear aggression?  I think not! 

Mudpuppy

Definitely NOT fear-based aggression.

I thought pretty much all aggression, with the exception of a few cases, is fear-based - remember the whole  ' the best defense is a good offense' mantra?  Unless of course you believe in the whole 'dominance' thing.

Personally I don't agree with that. My Great Pyrenees is a guardian breed. He protects his flock (my family) and his territory (our house and territory) I have no doubt in my mind that if we were seriously threatened he would bite someone. He is appropriately aggressive and it is not, by any indication I have seen, fear based. He will run to the fence and bark. If they walk closer he walks closer and his barks become louder and more intense. If they continue to approach (not many do) he will growl and bark. If they still continue he will growl and raise hackles, and if they still continue he will growl, raise hackles, show teeth, and hop back and forth (not towards them). No one has ever challenged him further. If we come out or tell him to stop he will stand between us and them blocking, on guard but not threatening until he decides to accept them or not. If he accepts them he will go and lay down, if he doesn't he will still go and lie down if told but will stay on alert. That is not fear based, but it is aggression. He is controllable, he is appropriate, he gives multiple and ample warnings, but I am absolutely sure he will bite if pushed. This is a dog that has been socialized, is VERY well trained, excellent with children, indifferent to other dogs. I did not train him to be this way, but was aware he would be this way when I decided on this breed. My yard is securely fenced, we have 'beware of dog' signs posted and I take full responsibility for owning an aggressive breed. Also, I will say, he is not what I would call "dominant" although I had thought he would be. He is a very loving and delightful boy, but I wouldn't suggest walking through my gate unannounced

 

 

yeah he is acting like his breed should but what most are talking about, i think, is how a dog reacts off his turf with other dogs and people.

I know :) I was responding to the comment about all aggression being fear aggression, which I don't believe. Outside of the house my boy is much like yours. He is mostly indifferent to other dogs except for when they are directly threatening, and he is watchful but calm around strangers unless they are threatening. When I say threatening I mean threatening, yelling, waving arms, too close, direct eye contact, crowding. If I sense him tensing when he shouldn't be I remove him from the situation, but generally speaking he inhibits himself. As mentioned before I have no doubt he could, and would take something out. But he chooses to warn extensively and I am happy for that!  For a breed bred to guard flocks from bears, mountain lions, wolves, coyotes, and even humans he does his job well. But even if he were a Doxie I would feel no less responsible for controlling him and keeping the public safe. Just because they may not "hospitalize" you does not mean they are not a danger.