Heads up on Promeris - product warning

I don't trust any of them to tell the truth.  When ProHeart6 first came out it was declared safe for heart worm positive dogs--til they started dying and the FDA told FD to change the label;--dogs must be treated for heartworm worms first.  They reaction list included just minor things--til dogs with liver damage, AIHA seizures started being r eported.  Then those  things had to be added to the list.  Adn the final warning change--death--which was added the day my Hunter fot his fatal injection.  Ten months after his death theFDA requested" (as in army asking for volunteers for a nasty job) it be pulled because it had caused so many horrible rections and deaths in just the 3 yedars it had been on the market.  To me all thee changes to the label over about 2 years meant it had not been researched and tested nearly enough.

 

When they tried to get it back on the market, the FDA turned them down due to "lack of  researchand testing"   I have read th entire 300 page transcript of that hearing and found that Fort Dodge made claims in the beginning about the number of dogs that died, etc that were not true.   The truth came out in the hearing.  Their cliam that 3 of the 280 field trial dogs died, but they were old and weak, etc, was the original cliam.  But there were a number of dogs that didn't finish the trail.  Why, asked the FDApanel.  Well, it seems some got ran over, some "ate" antifreeze, some were killing in hunting accidents.  Apparently the FDA did not buy this as it refused to allow the product back on the market until more testing and researchwas done.  It has been off the market since Sept. 3, 2004.

 

Okay, maybe I am a bit paranoid about new products.  But after reading the warnings about that one ingredient, well, just no way would I trust it.  Adn as stated above, there are several vet techs on my golden retriever forums and their vets are not using it becaue they don't feel enoughrfesearch has gone into it.  I just don't want to see thousands of dogs deathly sick or dead and a couple years time, and then it be decided it ids dangerous.  Also, I wonder whey it is not FDA approved, and this from an FDA vet.

I have read more labels, and the ENTIRE package insert of many MANY bottles of amitraz than you can imagine, and it clearly states all the warnings I've said, including it's effects on the insulin levels in the body AND that it's a carcinogen.  And I rather doubt that a pharmaceutical that has already been banned many times, has been on and off the market *many* times in the past several years (as "Mitaban" as the brand name of amitraz I'm referring to) is going to suddenly stop and ask to be studied for "toe tumors". 

This was a casual conversation between my vet and I after UF found the results of the aspirate showed that his entire toe was a tumor. 

I've repeatedly stated above my experience is with amitraz (more more than one form and strength), not Promeris.  But my experience is germaine because amitraz is one of the ingredients in Promeris.

LOL, they(mice, rats, etc) are studied to see what type of tumors meaning the type of cell, for example mast cell or adenoCA. You aren't even using the appropriate terminology for describing tumors. The only way you can "prove" that something causes it if it reliably produces tumors of a certain kind, such as asbestos and mesotheliomas. And there are not studies that show what you are saying period and someone actually posted the information about the hyperglycemia, did you not read it? Did you not understand it? I'd be interested to see these so called product inserts since I just read several of them of various brand names that say nothing of what you are saying. Can you produce them? I'd be interested to see you contradict cornell. I'm sorry but again you are just wrong and unable to produce anything to back up your claims. Here is the EPA's web page which says the same thing as cornell. http://www.epa.gov/oppsrrd1/REDs/factsheets/0234fact.pdf. The fact is that this medication has not shown in studies to cause cancers in dogs or rats. It caused cancers in some, not even all mice at very high doses, and that means pretty much nothing since as every researcher knows EVERYTHING causes cancer in white mice. I think being leary of a new medication is appropriate, but spreading false, unsubstantiated evidence meant to scare people is not. ETA: Frontline also has the same EXACT warning and is listed as a "possible" carcinogen because it caused tumors in rats. Just be careful how you interpret the information and look at it in context guys. I dont' see anyone calling frontline a major carcinogen.

More info on this. I just went to my vets and asked that since they've been selling Promeris for a while now, what kind of feedback they were getting. The tech was reluctant to say at first (obviously a bad sign) but admitted that it is not good. She said that she used it on  her dog and her dog was lethargic, wouldn't play and wasn't herself for a few days after. She also talked about the smell. She said that she'd never give it to her dog again. 

ottoluv

Can you produce them?

I wasn't aware this was a deposition, nor that you'd submitted a Request to Produce ... in fact, this is neither courtroom nor laboratory. 

Muffin died three years ago -- sorry, I didn't keep the package inserts at the time because I didn't realize *you* would need them.  I don't have a dog currently who requires the medication and I found other, safer ways of treatment. 

However -- you might just want to ask any vet that *still* prescribes Mitaban for dogs with demodex and ask them -- I'm sure they'd oblige you if you ask. I rather doubt it's changed.  

Someone used the word 'snarky' in another thread.  Yep -- it's a disease tonight apparently. 

 

 

 

The below was copied and pasted from anothr forum.  I found it ineresting and you may also. 

. I have a link to a site......for Pharmaceutical Reps....which has some posts in the forum from a few Vet techs and one Vet about this stuff. I never posted the link because the Reps for Merial and Ft Dodge are using horrid language, name calling, etc. But....it does give some interesting information about the product. The Vet's comments are on the bottom of Page 2. BEWARE OF LANGUAGE (childish and unnecessary, but interesting info): http://www.cafepharma.com/boards/showthread.php?t=238370

calliecritturs

ottoluv

Can you produce them?

I wasn't aware this was a deposition, nor that you'd submitted a Request to Produce ... in fact, this is neither courtroom nor laboratory. 

Muffin died three years ago -- sorry, I didn't keep the package inserts at the time because I didn't realize *you* would need them.  I don't have a dog currently who requires the medication and I found other, safer ways of treatment. 

However -- you might just want to ask any vet that *still* prescribes Mitaban for dogs with demodex and ask them -- I'm sure they'd oblige you if you ask. I rather doubt it's changed.  

Someone used the word 'snarky' in another thread.  Yep -- it's a disease tonight apparently. 

 

 

Uh yeah, I was being snarky because they are ALL ONLINE and don't say what you claim they do. Again, the anectodal reports of lethargy and skin issues seem to be circulating, but this is hardly a "major carcinogen" or going to kill someone with diabetes. Once again, tryin to keep the info acurate.

The thing about this site is what can you actually believe??? This is just a bunch of competing companies bashing each other!! As you mentioned childish and immature certainly comes to mind. I think the best place for information is our vets, if they need answers they can call FD and get information directly from a vet who knows the ins and outs of the specific product in question.

Problem with this is that Fort Dodge doesn't always tell the entire treuth. I found this out from experince and it comes out in the transcript of the hearing held Jan. 31, 2005 to get the product back on the market.  I know several who went to the hearing and heard from them, and I have also read the entire 300 page transcript. 

 

FD wants to sell their products and the reps will tell all the "good things", the "ups" of a product, but sure don't go into detail of all the side effects.  Fort dodge had to change their warning label on ProHeart6 THREE times before it was pulled, and each time it was done bcause the FDA toild them to do it, not because they wanted to let the cat out of the bag so to speak. Even my own vet says you can't believe all the hype about new products because the reps are in business to sell the products, not tell how they can cause such bad side effects. 

 

I don't the reps will come in and tell that they have a bunch of reports of adverse reactions, this product could be really dangerous, etc.  They just tell that it works wonders on killing ticks.

My vet also recently told me how he was flown out to Vegas, put up in swank hotel given money to gamble--by drug company for a seminar promoting their products.  He didn't say which one or what product, but he did say they septn an "obscene" amount of money trying to lure vets to use their porduct.

 I supposebecause of my Hunter's death due to ProHeart, which was pulled from the market, my own use of Vioxx, which was pulled from the market and my sister-in-law's use of Fen Phen (?) which was pulled from the market I am totally leary of drug companies and new products.

ottoluv

but this is hardly a "major carcinogen" or going to kill someone with diabetes. Once again, tryin to keep the info acurate.

You too, please??? as in "keep the info acurate"??? 

As far as I'm concerned if there are warnings on the insert about it being carcinogenic and it is actually admitted by the company that it may be so, that constitutes "major" to me -- that's MY opinion, clearly stated.

I did *not* say ANYWHERE that it was "going to kill someone with diabetes" -- but both the inserts to Mitaban (a/k/a "amitraz";) and my vet at the time (who is now deceased, sorry!) did caution that the Mitaban should not be handled by those with diabetes.  That's what I said. 

NO WHERE did I say it was going to kill anyone -- that's ludicrous and not what I said.  Don't bend what I said to support what you want to give me a hard time about.  This entire thread is entitled "Heads up on Promeris - product warning" -- that's what it is -- a *warning*.

Essentially the difference, Kelly, is that I've picked up the pieces after products like this -- I've paid for the cancer surgery, chemo and treatment and I've also bought the rubber-to-the-shoulder gloves and felt like crap for 24 hours after *I* handled the amitraz.  Not a study.  ME.   There was a time when I had to dip Muffin every other week ... for about 2 years.  I'm not talking about isolated use, and I'm not talking about something I haven't used.  I've handled more amitraz personally than most vets *ever* do simply by sheer quantity of what we had to do for this dog. 

You want to rely on numbers, and that's fine, well and good because it's what you do.  I've dealt with the damage in many different cases, and in Muffin's case and *my* case I used every possible caution that I could to protect myself and my dog.  I had no choice at the time -- it was the only thing at the time that could be used. 

I have said **again and again** in this thread I've no experience with "Promeris" -- only with amitraz.  But since most of the side-effects that have been reported apparently have to do with that component what I'm saying is germaine in a thread about a "product warning". 

It's wonderful when studies show that X% out of Y studied show ... BUT ... the reality of it all is that somewhere there is that (100-X)% don't react/respond that way ... and real people have real dogs who react badly to some drugs SOME times. 

No, obviously it doesn't mean that this or that drug is going to react badly all the time.  But most people like to be aware of that worst case scenario.  And SOME people, particulalry if they have a choice, will choose to pass on that thing.  But if they want to believe exactly what they see in advertisements and want to take home anything their vet or any merchant sells them -- fine.  But if they are interested enough to read a thread entitled "product warning" -- then ... it's a warning.

Don't put words that aren't there in my posts.  I simply "care".  I have opinions, yes, but I try to be clear, and not nasty.  I try to be helpful.  I'd really appreciate not being attacked like that.  It gets far too personal. 

Hi, I think if we are going to talk about a rep telling the truth we probably should broaden the statement past Fort Dodge. Every company will hire reps and give them the information on the product. It is up to each rep how they decide to "sell" the product and lets not forget everyone is only as good as the information they are given. As mentioned in someone elses post, they were not participating in the study....well how many of these drug reps from any company were actively participating in the study?? Pretty good chance not very many were!!! I don't think it is necessarily fair to say the reps don't always tell the entire truth, they give the information that has been provided to them..usually based on a study. I was at my vets a couple weeks ago and heard a FD rep telling my vet about promeris along with the pros and cons (lethargy and ingestion issues included). The minute I heard promeris I kind of perked up and listened in. I think it's only fair to point out not all reps are liars and that being said not all tell the truth either. But let's not lable everyone the same.

I'm glad I found this thread.  A rep came to my work, bought us all lunch then gave an hour presentation about this new product.  I just didn't like it and after hearing about how it works and affect the fleas nervous system I was very skeptical about how it would work on dogs with out harming them as well.  Some of the other techs I work with seemed to think it sounded great but I just don't think I'd ever let that stuff touch my dog. 

The rep put a free sample on a dog at the clinic and the smell was just horrid.  Not so bad at first but after a while my eyes just started to water from the chemicals lingering in the air.  My clinic decided not to sell it but that might change, I don't know, but I won't use it.  From the sounds of things on here I think I have even more of a reason to stay away from that stuff.