"Monkey"--a racial slur?

FourIsCompany

If there wouldn't be an issue between friends, why is it an issue just because they don't get along?

Because a word isn't just a word, it's what's behind it. If someone were to call your female dog a "bitch," referring to the fact that she's a female dog, it's totally different from calling her a "bitch" because they think she's a mean dog, right? Best example I could come up with, I realize it's not at all similar, but same sort of idea?

I don't think anyone should be a walking dictionary of potential racial slurs (heaven knows I'm not - I learned more racist terms in my college classes than I ever heard growing up, lucky me), but if you say any word hatefully, it's still a slur, even if not racially targeted. I mean, either the mother is totally off her rocker, or the neighbor was saying a bit more than, "Hey, you funny little monkeys, stop climbing that tree before you get hurt!" Why the neighbor was saying anything in the first place is probably a good indication of why there was friction between the two of them.

rwbeagles

I read something in the story about a ticket...??

Not only was she ticketed, she lost her job.

Let me be clear. I totally understand someone being hurt. I understand the sting. I see the insult. I feel compassionate toward that. But I think we have to consider whether or not an insult was intended.

I just think taking action against this and getting legal recourse (revenge) is NOT right at all.

I wouldn't think twice about calling kids in a tree monkeys. I think, to survey the races of the children before I use the word would be more of a "racist" act than to decide to keep my mouth shut. Because I would NEVER use a racial slur. If I said "monkeys" it would be because they were climbing in a tree and that's what my mother called me.

For me to NOT use the word brings the phrase "separate but equal" to mind. If people are equal, then we shouldn't be treating them differently because of their race. If I treat a person differently because of his race, to me, that's not respect, that's racist.

Cita

If someone were to call your female dog a "bitch," referring to the fact that she's a female dog, it's totally different from calling her a "bitch" because they think she's a mean dog, right?

Yes. And I might be hurt or upset. But I wouldn't call the cops and make the person pay. I wouldn't expect them to lose their job. I don't have an inherent right to never be offended. And we don't know the intent behind this woman's words. Why presume it's racist?  Especially when she's working to get a black man elected president???

 I just want to say, I am really glad this thread was posted and the knowledge shared, because I had no clue that monkey could be offensive, and will update my vocab accordingly. My parents use to call us monkey whenever we were climbing trees, so I never thought much of it until now.

FourIsCompany

For me to NOT use the word brings the phrase "separate but equal" to mind. If people are equal, then we shouldn't be treating them differently because of their race. If I treat a person differently because of his race, to me, that's not respect, that's racist.

I do not consider it racist, to think that someone might be deeply hurt by a word I use, simply because to me it's no big deal. Sometimes it's actually not about "me". Thinking about who you are speaking to, in general thinking before you speak, is never a bad thing...IMO. 

I think it's fine to say whatever you want, to whoever you want to say it to. So long as you also accept any consequences arising therefrom. I think that's fair. You can't ever control the way people respond to your words...but their reaction and feelings to the words...aren't any less valid than yours, IMO.

FourIsCompany

But I wouldn't call the cops and make the person pay. I wouldn't expect them to lose their job. I don't have an inherent right to never be offended.

That's you.

Obviously she had the right to do that, there was some sort of rule backing her up...I'd assume it's rather like the verbal assault rules in place in some areas where if someone flips you the bird, or cusses you out they can be fined or ticketed.

if that bothers you then that is something to address with your lawmakers I'd guess? I certianly already said I think it's something that should have stayed between the parties involved...so I don't disagree necessarily.

rwbeagles

I do not consider it racist, to think that someone might be deeply hurt by a word I use, simply because to me it's no big deal.

I don't either. But if it didn't occur to me that the word might be taken as a racist slur in the first place (as is the case with monkey) what am I guilty of?

rwbeagles

Sometimes it's actually not about "me".

I don't think that's fair. I don't think this is about me. But all I can give is my viewpoint. And that's what I'm doing.

rwbeagles

but their reaction and feelings to the words...aren't any less valid than yours, IMO.

Where have I invalidated anyone's feelings? I said I understood the people being hurt and offended. I just don't think the woman should be automatically punished, or thought of as racist or persecuted in any way because somebody was offended, when she likely spoke in all innocence. 

rwbeagles

Obviously she had the right to do that, there was some sort of rule backing her up.

Yes, she had the legal right. But is it right? That's what I wonder about this. There's no argument she had the legal right.

I'd assume it's rather like the verbal assault rules in place in some areas where if someone flips you the bird, or cusses you out they can be fined or ticketed.

Flipping the bird and swearing are clear cut actions. Calling someone a "monkey" is not. If the boys were white, this wouldn't be an issue.

FourIsCompany

Flipping the bird and swearing are clear cut actions. Calling someone a "monkey" is not. If the boys were white, this wouldn't be an issue.

Really? In my house we do that all the time...it's no big deal, it's actually a term of endearment almost...not sure why anyone would be offended. Words are only offensive really if you are raised thinking that way or society tells you they are. Heck we were raised thinking the bird was a peace sign...why should I get in trouble for that?

*tongue firmly in cheek*

Where have I invalidated anyone's feelings? I

Actually I was speaking generally...the general you...no need to be defensive.

This story reminds me of some words from Obama's race speech:

I believe deeply that we cannot solve the challenges of our time unless we solve them together - unless we perfect our union by understanding that we may have different stories, but we hold common hopes; that we may not look the same and we may not have come from the same place, but we all want to move in the same direction - towards a better future for of children and our grandchildren.
...
But race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now. We would be making the same mistake that Reverend Wright made in his offending sermons about America - to simplify and stereotype and amplify the negative to the point that it distorts reality.

 

The fact is that the comments that have been made and the issues that have surfaced over the last few weeks reflect the complexities of race in this country that we've never really worked through - a part of our union that we have yet to perfect. And if we walk away now, if we simply retreat into our respective corners, we will never be able to come together and solve challenges like health care, or education, or the need to find good jobs for every American.
...
For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle - as we did in the OJ trial - or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina - or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright's sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she's playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

 

We can do that.

 

But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we'll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

And I think that's what this story shows. The fact that one lady called some boys "monkeys" has been simplified and stereotyped and amplified in a negative sense to the point that reality is distorted. We all have to STOP the escalation of situations like this. We have to work together not against each other.  

Interestingly enough, on the radio this morning they had Jesse Jackson Jr. on and he thought the entire thing was just ridiculous and didn't feel that anything racist had occurred. 

This actually shows something about Obama IMHO.  If he were to put his money where is mouth is he would address this issue head on rather than try to do damage control by booting this woman out.  If he *really* wants America to have an open dialog about race, he just missed a perfect opportunity.

I am still confused as to why a woman working for the man that will likely be the first black president would even hurl a racial slur in the first place.  That hasn't really been answered...... 

I understand the context under which calling a person a monkey can be a racial slur or insult.  I also understand the context in which it is an endearment.  Nobody can really read intent as black-and-white as the statement of a word or not.  If it was said, someone could be offended - and in this case - take extreme action.  Yes - I consider it extrem in this instance - at least at face value.

I had no knowledge that "beaner" was a slur, either.  Until I was talking to Jada using the myriad of nicknames I've given her... everything from "Potato Head" to "Va-Jay-Jay" to "MubbaWubba" to "Hippo" to "Beanie" - and thus the variation of "Beaner".  BF corrected me before I got in trouble in public - and was incredulous that I didn't know it was an offensive word.  I guess as they say - ignorance of the law excuses no one. 

Hmm...I remember a couple of weeks ago my co-worker was referring to her own niece as a "little monkey" because she loves to climb.  This whole political race dialogue has really gotten out of control and needs to stop.  I can't even watch the evening news anymore.

rwbeagles

FourIsCompany

Flipping the bird and swearing are clear cut actions. Calling someone a "monkey" is not. If the boys were white, this wouldn't be an issue.

Really? In my house we do that all the time...it's no big deal, it's actually a term of endearment almost...not sure why anyone would be offended. Words are only offensive really if you are raised thinking that way or society tells you they are. Heck we were raised thinking the bird was a peace sign...why should I get in trouble for that?

*tongue firmly in cheek*

Well, if you want to get technical, there really is no other use for that gesture in our society. 

However, there are dozens of non-racist uses for the word monkey.  Most people that I know that have kids refer to them as "monkeys" at some point.  My aunt called her kids "monkey doodles."  There is the song about the 5 little monkeys jumping on the bed.  There is Curious George.  We used to pretend we were monkeys as kids.  When my dogs are jumping around like crazy I call them "monkey dogs."  Go to Barnes & Nobles and you will find dozens and dozens of children's books involving monkeys.  Some of the more popular shows on Animal Planet involve monkeys.  Either there is some vast racist conspiracy afoot involving a number of children's book authors, children's' TV producers, the movie industry, and the Discovery Channel to turn all children into little racists OR sometimes a monkey is just a monkey.   

Someone can burn the flag or run around with a sign that says "God Hates Fags" and "God Loves AIDS" and that is free speech but if someone tells kids that are PLAYING IN A TREE that they are acting like monkeys, that requires that person to be fined $75 and lose their job.  And we wonder why other countries mock us........       

This is just ridiculous. My parents used to call me a monkey when I was being silly as a little kid. When I would crawl around on all fours pretending to be an animal, they would say I looked like a little dog...don't see how that is any different than calling someone climbing a tree a monkey. Yes, there have been instances when "monkey" has been used inapproriately and in an obviously racist manner but this is not the case.

And I agree with some others...seems like Obama is all talk and no walk. Surprise, surprise. : /

And just a related comment,

I'm a pretty fair skinned white girl. Saying a black person resembles a monkey is like saying I resemble the abominable snowman or a polar bear. People are people, and those who actually call others "monkeys" in the derogatory sense are less intelligent than the actual animal anyway.

She's not stepping down after all...  

Another Source 

the Obama campaign says it’s her choice whether to remain as a delegate.