Back yard Breeders

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

I will have to look around and see....but AKC used to have stats on their reg's numbers...the overwhelming number was people who never registered another litter....meaning a 1 time thing. This accounted for I believe over 80 or right at 80% of their regs. I was truly surprised by this...it was not what I expected.
 
This is OT again sorry...but to address the slowing things down thing...
Breeding moratoriums have been proposed in past...and truly I wonder what Americans, would do? Would they adopt? Would they simply import puppies from Mexico or Europe? I don't know...Americans can be willful...lol.

Doesnt surprise me about the one time registers. you can probably accurately guess why those pups were bred and where they are now.

I would be willing to bet that most Americans would smuggle their dogs from state to state. they would be contraband. there would be a reproductive black market. Where i live now, so far out in the woods that if you dont stick to the path you'll never find your way home again, i could do anything i want and no one would ever be the wiser for it.... which might be why our two neighbours are kinda aloof and unwelcoming. no telling what my family is interupting....

DumDog....going by the comments I get on my hounds...the Beagle's been multitasking for quite a while lol! It also used to have a Toy size interestingly enough...
 
One could say the same thing about many a breed...but really...what exactly does saying it accomplish in the great scheme of things? Beagles, Goldens, and Labs, and many, many others, are popular because they are outstanding  ets when obtained from a reputable source...by understanding and well researched owners.
 
In your various posts, you've made it quite plain that you are anti conformation...and really...I don't plan on trying to convert you, lol. Hopefully you will believe that and do me and my views, the same courtesy? Your comments on people in my breed...are probably more productive if addressed to said people. If you'd like the addy to join the Beagle list let me know.
 
Lack of responsibilty and lack of planning, is what puts a dog in the shelter most times...many here would agree to that.

Steve, that's true...I stand corrected. []

ORIGINAL: Laurelin_429

I just wanted to say that I think conformation is VERY important in some breeds.  Especially lap dogs.  They don't work!  They're not bred for work so you can't test things like that.  Obedience and agility and CGC are nice titles to have but they don't say anything about quality of the dog in comparison to others of the breed.  It's not enough reason to breed.  Don't get me wrong, those titles are things I look for but I want them with conformation titles as well.  There's so many bad breeders in toys that no conformation titles is a huge turn off to me.  And if you're buying a quality toy or a poorly bred toy, you can expect to pay a lot for your dog,  It's just the way it is. 

In a herding or working breed conformation would mean a lot less to me, or I could see how it could mean a lot less.  I'd prefer a dog that could do it all, though I realize in many breeds this is impossible and it is conformation or working and no middle ground. 

Very good point you made. I dont own, and never have owned a toy breed.. i've been tempted by those little apple headed dogs, but i've always let myself be talked out of it. I'm an active person, i do a lot of outdoor things.. some toys are too clingy for me. But you're right. they were bred for that purpose, to be lap dogs, indoor dogs, or.. "arm candy" in some circles of society....
honestly i'm more concerned with OFA and Pinn Hip stuff... i think i spelled that right..
one of my cousins and her mom are "chihuahua breeders" and i'm always hearing about her mom having to pay for surgery for her dog's bad knees. not to mention my cousin's females always have trouble giving birth.
The one time i asked why she didnt just get them fixed and stop making them suffer she said "I dont want them fixed! they have great personalities!"      ...at what cost?
the Toy breed is suffering as much as the working breeds. people get these little dogs and treat them like hamsters.. pocket pets... easy breeders... riiiiiiight.

Moderator hat is on...
This thread has been informative, lots of good debate...but it's wandered around a bit, and I've added to that...many apologies to the OP.
Let's try to bring and stay on the topic...."What is a BYB?".
 
I think many points brought up here are good for discussion and worthy of their own thread...I hope you all will feel free to start said threads if you'd like to talk further about:
 
*pet overpopulation
*conformation showing
*the state of XXX (insert breed here)
*breeding limits/moratorium's
 
I am always up for discussion on any of the above...and again apologies to the OP for my own ramblings and wandering all around and away from your question's main focus.

ORIGINAL: rwbeagles

DumDog....going by the comments I get on my hounds...the Beagle's been multitasking for quite a while lol! It also used to have a Toy size interestingly enough...
 
One could say the same thing about many a breed...but really...what exactly does saying it accomplish in the great scheme of things? Beagles, Goldens, and Labs, and many, many others, are popular because they are outstanding  ets when obtained from a reputable source...by understanding and well researched owners.
 
In your various posts, you've made it quite plain that you are anti conformation...and really...I don't plan on trying to convert you, lol. Hopefully you will believe that and do me and my views, the same courtesy? Your comments on people in my breed...are probably more productive if addressed to said people. If you'd like the addy to join the Beagle list let me know.
 
Lack of responsibilty and lack of planning, is what puts a dog in the shelter most times...many here would agree to that.

I'm not anti conformation, i agree with what Laurelin_429 had to say about the toy breeds. but for workers, no, not really. they dont need to be pretty and flashy and flamboyent or look just like everyone else. that just doesnt serve a purpose in work... unless you're in the military or security. then uniformity matters..they do that to make them look respectable and stand out from the masses of bystanders.
and i never once thought beagles were incapable of multitasking. i never thought that about any dog. believe me, i've seen chihuahuas hunting squirrels, airdales pointing pheasant and treeing racoons. any dog can do any job under the right trainer.

I would think if one is interested in a purebred dog, they would consider conformation and/or other dog related events to be important. For example, I own Boston Terriers and I find the conformationally correct Boston Terrier to be a beautiful sight. I am attracted to the way the Boston Terrier is supposed to look. Quite honestly, I don't understand the point of getting a purebreed dog if you(collective you) don't care about the way it looks or the way it's supposed to act. Here I thought the whole point of a purebreed dog is predictability in looks and behavior.
 
Now conformation wouldn't be as important to me if I am interested in a working type dog but I would want proof that the dog can do what it was bred for and a great way to prove that is by dog related events such as herding, hunting, lure coursing etc and I might even by pass that if the dog came from Uncle Joe around the way who has been selectively breeding Border Collies/mixes for many years to work his farm and the farms of others. The difference between Uncle Joe's Border Collies/mixes and those from John Q. Public is that Uncle Joe's dogs come from a long line of dogs that actually work and Uncle Joe wasn't afraid to cull(kill and/or spay/neuter) dogs who can't do the job as opposed to JQP who has raised Border Collies/mixes for a minute, lives in an apartment, doesn't feel the need to put a herding title on his dogs nor has any of them seen sheep yet is convinced they can be excellent herders and besides, he's willing to sell you a pup on full registration so you can breed your own and make back your purchase price.
 
When it comes to breeding and shelter dogs, while it's true that a responsibly bred dog takes away a home from a shelter dog just like a BYB/Mill dog the thing is, responsible breeders aren't contributing to the shelter overpopulation. The majority of dogs in shelters and rescues are from irresponsible breeders. Either they were turned in by an irresponsible breeder or they were bred by an irresponsible breeder who sold the dog to someone who shouldn't have gotten a dog and the dog ends up in a shelter or rescue because not many BYB's/Mills/Pet stores take back dogs.
 
With that said, I feel that your chances of getting a healthier dog that actually resembles the breed it's supposed to be and can do what it was bred for is much higher if you go to a responsible breeder. I feel that if you(collective you) don't care about pedigrees, titles and any of that jazz then you might as well save your money and adopt a dog from a shelter.

Well, my dogs are hardly arm candy.  They're athletic, loving companions that excel in all sorts of dog sports.  The breed can be top competitors in agility, flyball, and obedience and they are also good at tracking.  Health concerns are around but unfortunately many toy breeders do not seem to think health concerns apply to them.  It's an unfortunate thing when dealing with toys.
 
Anyways a BYB to me is someone that does not care or does not know how to properly breed.  They are not always evil people purposefully producing bad dogs, they're just not responsible.  I've got a dog from a BYB who is great and health problem free for the most part.  Good temperament, and actually looks like her breed.  Far from show quality, but in size etc.  The owners of her parents wanted to have a litter.  They loved their dogs and took care of them.  Doesn't mena they should have bred their dogs.  They were AKC registered- doesn't mean they should be bred. 
 
A breeder that i consider reputable is one that breeds for quality not quantity.  They test their dog for a trait that is important to their breed.  Ie. not agility or something like that.  Conformation or something instinctual.  Depends on the breed.  They also should do at least something else with their dogs.  It proves the dogs are multi-functional.  I like to see CGC, agility, obedience, tracking, therapy dog or anything else that they do with their dogs is a plus.  Health clearances should be run.  They have litters very rarely and usually have waiting lists.  They have extensive screening of prospective owners and are always willing to take their dogs back.  They sell all pet quality pups on spay/neuter contracts.  They socialize their puppies very well.

Conformation (structure in this instance) is incredibly important for dogs that have jobs.  The balance (angle of the bones) front and rear impacts the ease of motion and efficiency of coverning ground.  The bone lengths front and rear, the length of back, the attachment of the withers, the size and shape of the rib cage all have considerable impact on the ability to perform the function for which the dogs were originally bred.  Most BYB and puppy millers dont know how to evaluate structure should they even care enough to do so.....
 
 

ORIGINAL: huskymom


First of all the testing they do should be done BEFORE the dog is bred. The testing is to make sure that they have good hips, eyes, and whatever else the breed may be prone to, disease wise. A good breeder does not make a profit, and if they do its rare and very little. The money gets used up caring for their animals, proving their animals, .  Yes, some may t care and such. Emergencies often eat up any profit that might have been made. If you are into breeding for the money you shouldn't be breeding. I think that is the general conscensus around here.

 
I hear what you are saying that you feel people should not be making money on breeding.   I think they deserve to make some money.  After all a truely reputable breeder from what everyone is saying puts a great deal of time, care , hard work and effort into keeping a good breed going.  I really think if they do all that is nessecarry to be a reputable breeder then they should up their prices they deserve it. 
 
 And actually now that I am thinking about it why do these good breeders keep breeding  if there are already too many unwanted dogs?
 
 

Moderator here,
 
Peace..if you look up the thread a bit....you can see that the moderator for this section (me) asked that this thread remain on topic...if you would like to...please re ask your question in a new thread.
 
Once again general for all...this thread needs to stay on topic.
Thank you.

[]rwbeagles
shame on me.  sorry about that.  i am new here and already getting my hand slapped.  i will stay on topic, sorry again.

My very basic and general definition of a BYB is someone who breeds not becasue they should but because they can. People who have forgotten that along with freedom comes responsibility.

If you ask a BYB why they are breeding, they have all kinds of reasons, but implicit in all of them is "...and because I can and you can't stop me." They have not thought the entire issue through, they just want to do something, have the legal right to do it, and go for it. And they cater to potential dog buyers who have a similar view: I want something, I have the legal right to do it, so I'm going to--without investigating the moral angles of the issue.

i disagree. you make it sound like backyard breeders don't care for their dogs, and their dog's babies. as if ALL they want is money, which isn't always the case unless they have legitimate puppy mill going on... there are those who just simply love puppies (as previously said). as long as they aren't poorly treating their animals, there really should not be any negitivity towards "backyard breeders". however, everyones entitled to their opinon.

Paig3Conl3y

i disagree. you make it sound like backyard breeders don't care for their dogs, and their dog's babies. as if ALL they want is money, which isn't always the case unless they have legitimate puppy mill going on... there are those who just simply love puppies (as previously said). as long as they aren't poorly treating their animals, there really should not be any negitivity towards "backyard breeders". however, everyones entitled to their opinon.

This thread is almost 3 years old.  Just in case you didn't notice...