Crating your dogs is a terrible thing???

Don't fret, Houndlove. I'd be dead too if Edie's standards applied to people. I *like* unique animals and people. They often come with quirks, but they are soooo much more interesting.

Heck, my kid is 4 and still doesn't sleep through the night. Not normal! Too much work! Not to mention the colic during the early months. Better go get that needle ...  

 signed,

the tragically alive and thriving
 

Well Said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  And agree!!  Obviously this person has never worked with rescues or shouldn't if they do (gezz thats scary isn't it?)

Edie

 Dogs dont see death the same way we do.I'm sure the majority of shelter dogs would rather cross over then live their lives in shelters or cages. 

And I am just as sure that the majority of shelter dogs would rather live in a home, with free food, love and attention, and think spending time in a crate a small price to pay.

As for a shelter not knowing about a dogs SA, well think about this. Dog is at shelter, dog is in cage, dog feels secure, after all, it has food, water and shelter, IMO most shelter/adopted dogs hide their true personalities and I truly believe that some dogs develop SA because of their shelter/homeless experience.

To me, by saying only adopt happy well adjusted dogs is just plain wrong. One life saved, is just that, saved.

ETA: My dog below spends time in a crate when we are not at home, he looks so pathetic and sad doesn't he?

Crating in my eyes isn't a bad thing if it's used PROPERLY. At first I never crate trained Maze. I didn't see the need for it. Now I have crate trained her for the one fact of I want to travel with her. It's set up in my living room with my old blanket of my bed, a pillow and a large dog bed. When she feels threaten or stressed, she runs into her crate and hides her toys.

Used the wrong way, a crate can be a horrible thing but when used properly IMHO I feel that a den is better then death... 

Just how many intact bitches have you had living in your home at one time?  And for good measure throw in a stud dog.  And btw I am talking about same sex aggression, not aggression as it pretains to different breeds.

My dogs for the most part life in harmony, everyone out together in the house and out in the backyard.  They are together 24/7, sleep in our beds and spend most of their days under a blanket sleeping on the sofa.  Although my pup prefers to watch a lot of t.v during the day while the others sleep.  They share bones too btw without fighting or snarking at each other etc.  Crate doors are  open and it isn't unusual to find a dog sound asleep in a crate or 3 of them in there snuggled up to each other.  Just a couple of weeks ago, 2 were sleeping curled up together while a third chewed on a cowhoof, all in one open crate.  That is harmony.  I choose to crate them when I am out of the house for some very valid reasons and being destructive in my home isn't one of them.

Your posts about putting down dogs with issues is offensive, I have done far too much rescue work to feel otherwise.  And in my opinion you owe the people on this board like Houndlove an apology.

How many dogs have you held in your arms while they were being put down?  Looked into their eyes?  And saw that they 'knew' what was coming.  Did you know why two injections are given?  The first one is to paralysis the animal, so the people don't see  the animal go through the death throes.  But the animal still experinces them, they just can't move.  So its not a nice go to sleep fuzzy feeling for the animal.  Ever seen another animal respond to that?  Wanna bet they don't know what is happening and that they could be next?????????

While I absolutely do not agree with Edie, she is entitled to share her opinion.  And her opinion on crates seems to be that they are the creation of Satan himself.

I also work in rescue and welcome fosters into my home.  Ain't no way I'm bringing strange dogs home WITHOUT a crate for them.  But, she lives in a different country with different attitudes and beliefs.  In the US often crates ARE abused.  Those of us who use them responsibly tend to get a bit up in arms when someone comes in with such blanket statements.

To each his/her own, guys.

 I've had plenty of disagreements with people who are 100% anti-crating, but in my opinion saying that someone's dog would be better off dead is just way beyond the line of civil debate. My dog may be just some messed-up mutt in another country to Edie, but to me he's my baby. He's sleeping on the couch next to me right now, like a big furry angel. You betcha I'm going to have a bit of a reaction when someone tells me that they think he'd rather be dead than living in my home.

I couldn't agree with you more  I'd want to throttle someone who said such a thing about any of mine.  I'm just saying that there are posters who LIVE for reactions and feed on them.......

 I think (and we all know my opinion is so important, lol) that this boils down to : you have the right to express ridiculous and offensive opinions, and I have the right to express my opinion that yours is ridiculous and offensive.

Plus, people often prove their credibility with their posting. If you know what I mean ...

Put Edie down on the other side of the river, and enjoy the rest of the hike with that adorable Conrad. 

Dog_ma

 I think (and we all know my opinion is so important, lol) that this boils down to : you have the right to express ridiculous and offensive opinions, and I have the right to express my opinion that yours is ridiculous and offensive.

Plus, people often prove their credibility with their posting. If you know what I mean ...

Put Edie down on the other side of the river, and enjoy the rest of the hike with that adorable Conrad. 

Amen to that! 

sillysally

Dog_ma

 (and we all know my opinion is so important, lol)

 

Amen to that! 

Bwahahaha! Can I out that in my signature?  

Wow I've missed out on a very interesting thread. It was a good read though and quite amusing at times.

When I first got Harley, I crate-trained her for a about a week and a half (shes 2) just so she gets the idea that my house is not "outside". From then on I just leave the crate un-gated and its her little den in my room. She loves it and will go in there to take naps or when she feels overwhelmed or scared from something. Its her comfort zone and safe zone. And this is with or without the gate. I think she'll trip out if I got rid of it - as bulky as it is in my room.

Houndlove,you never answered my question of whether you have gotten an accredited behaviourist in to deal with your dogs problems,or was crating your first choice?

It seems many people crate their dogs due to this or that problem,but crates tend to act as bandaids,the problem is STILL there,however being locked up in a cage just disables the dog,right?Again, Crating doesnt solve these problems,the problem is still there at the end of the day,right?

I have been sitting here for hours staring at a blank screen trying to come up with some other way to try and put my point accross,but i doubt it would make any difference.I do find it funny though that the people up in arms about what i have written have also been the nastiest

What is so wrong about having a goal of letting your dogs have free run of the house? If a dog has a mental problem there are so many avenues an owner can take to try and overcome them,but for so many a cage is the first and only option.This is what bugs me alot,a cage is an easy,cheap solution for the owner,it keeps the dog out of trouble,so why bother going any further.

If there were NO such thing as crates you would have NO choice but to find another solution,why cant people look at it that way.Crates IMHO should be the last resort,not the first.

Yes,i do feel desperately sorry for dogs who are locked in a cage for hours everyday,especially those that dont get exercise before the owner leaves for work.Does this make me a bad person?

I am a huge advocate for exercise,both mental and physical,my signature says it all,so i will leave it at that.

Yes,my dogs also sleep most of the day's away,however they dont spend 8 hours lying in the same spot.They will get up and stretch,look out the window,go outside for a pee,have a bit of a play or whatever they so choose.

My dogs are NOT perfect as some of you have said,but i have worked damn hard to make them what they are today,and i am very proud of the fact that i have never had to crate any of my dogs!

To end,i would like to ask you to maybe just try giving your dogs a chance to be uncaged,they might just surprise you.And please put yourselves in their shoes,as anthropomorphic as it is how would you like to spend your days in a cell just big enough for you to turn around in,no chance to go the toilet,no books or tv.You get up in the morning and all you have to look forward to is a day sitting in a cage.

No, crating was not my first choice and thanks for making an absolute ton of assumptions in your post. It was in fact the final thing on the list of things we were going to try before considering something very drastic (we were talking about rehoming, but unless we could find a shut-in who never ever left the house, that was totally unrealistic and deep down we knew that). We worked with a veterinarian and we tried several different medications in conjunction with desensitization and counter-conditioning, and we exercised the pants off him considering at the time we lived on several acres of beach front property. We were living in a very rural area, with hardly any dog trainers let alone behaviorists. But we worked with our vet and did a lot of reading, so no, no behaviorist. There weren't any around. It was nearly 6 months before we tried a crate. Six months of coming home daily (and I wasn't even working full time at the time, so this was coming home after just an hour or two) to our rented house demolished. Deep gouges on all the doors from him clawing trying to get out. Blinds ripped off the windows from him struggling to get through the windows. Carpets ripped up in front of all the doors from him trying to "dig" out. Anything left on any counter or surface in front of a window was flung off as this 90 lb. dog was getting up on anything (dining room table, kitchen counters, dressers) that was in front of a window so he could try to escape. Being left free run in a house with no one home is not a kindness for this dog. It flat out terrifies him. We tried to kennel him outside as well, as the house we were renting had a built-on kennel run. But first he learned to lift the gate off the hinges and then when we fixed that, he ripped his nose open repeatedly in his attempts (and successes) at squeezing under the chain link fence.

It's great you've never had to crate any of your dogs. I've only ever had to crate one (of three). But until you meet that one dog who must be crated, you're going to continue in your smug assumptions that everyone who crates just does it because they are mean and selfish and cruel and not because there may in fact be dogs out there who's mental health is vastly improved by being in an enclosed, safe, hidden space when their owners are not around to protect them.  

 We went 6 months with this problem with very little improvement seen in Conrad until finally I got over my own prejudices and assumptions about crating (we'd never had to crate our first dog so I had a similar attitude as you have--though maybe not so rude and presumptuous). It was our vet who finally suggested it. And as it turns out, Conrad didn't even actually have to be "crate-trained". I got the crate, put his bed in it, opened the door, got in it myself for a couple minutes, got out and he got right in it and laid down. That was that. The transformation in him was nearly immediate. Instead of coming home to a dog exhausted and panic-stricken, I started coming home to a dog that was just happy to see me. And I'll admit, it was nice to come home and only be happy to see my dog, not dreading the state I'd find the house in. Selfish, I know. But we were on a very limited income, living in a rental property that we couldn't hope to afford to repair, and I was literally having serious panic attacks. I had started seeing a therapist (I was taking some college classes, so thankfully that at least was free through my school).

 
Soooo, until one of your dogs sends you in to therapy and threatens to get you evicted, I don't think you really have that much room to judge me. I saved a dog from death, he is not perfect, he's got some issues, but he's alive and happy and the only thing is that he spends his days sleeping comfortably in a crate instead of sleeping comfortably on the sofa. I sometimes work from home and I can tell you, the dogs are not playing Capture the Flag with the cats all day in the house. They are sleeping. They pick one spot, and they do not move, for hours. I've watched them. In fact, Conrad will very frequently pick his crate as that spot, go in, fall asleep and stay there for nearly the entire day, even when I am home. He likes it. It's his safe space. Not all dogs need that, but mine does. My other dog? He's got his own room. Want to tell me how cruel I am now for giving a dog his own room in my house?
 

What is wrong with putting a newborn in a bassonette? Or a toddler in a crib? Or a playpen?  There are always going to be some extremes that would not be rational or humane.

Dogs that are crated during the night or for a few hours are going to be perhaps a little safer.  As well as a couple of household items potentially.

If you had an event in the night such as a fire, you could easily get your dogs and get them out safely. 

Extremists and fanatics will always be around to peak up these endless conversations which have no end nor solutions. 

What is rational, humane and safe is what you make it.