Making posts nice, 101

glenmar

OMG I spit coffee all over my screen laughing!

Awww, Ron!  Did you HAVE to give away my fight strategy?  Geeze! 

But,thanks for the warning.  If I must have coffee, I'll use a sippy cup!

For Callie:
Definition of a thong - piece of leather used for lacing up snowshoes...

snowshoes! is that what they're calling it these days.. 

haha... this thread is hysterical, but purposeful (great when that happens, no?)

Back to the origional topic - I think what people don't realize, just because someone has a different opinion on something, does not make either party wrong - had this happen to me earlier.... - you just have to learn to walk away. Agree to disagree, and leave it alone. You can't change everyones opinions.

There are some things that are done in the name of training that just really upset some folks tho.  I watched ONE class when Thor and Sheba were pups and was so disturbed by what I saw that I was upset for days.  This guy used the really rough alpha roll that's been described and I saw absolutely no purpose to it other than to show the pups who was boss....or who was unpredictable and frightening.  He insisted on choke chains and very violent leash corrections, he did a lot of the stuff I hear about CM using....the finger "bite", etc, and he used those things on pups that weren't doing anything wrong.

My neighbor took his boxer to this guy and even though Buddy was a sweet boy, he was no where near as well behaved as my guys are now.  I'm sure that a lot of the misbehaviors were a lack of follow through on the owners part, but, Buddy jumped on everyone, as an example, and would not get off without a leash correction or a hard slap to his butt.

Watching Buddy grow and watching the way my neighbor dealt with him, really solidified in my mind what I'd already believed. That there is just no place in dog training for violence.

There seems to be a huge divide between the positive camp and the other camp....and I'm not sure what to call that other camp.  "They" seem to see us as "treat dispensing butlers", positive means permissive and that the dogs run the house, that sort of thing, and *I* see them as a bit over the top and sometimes borderline abusive.  That's SOMETIMES, folks.  They don't understand my methods and I don't understand theirs.

I live with six big dogs.  Five of them have earned their CGC, Tyler works as a therapy dog with the elderly.  The rescues I work with have decided that I "have a way with dogs" and I get some of the tough cases to teach manners to.  I'm not a trainer.  I really don't "know" anything for sure, but I can take dogs who've lived in a kennel their entire lives and teach them how to live in a home with other dogs, with cats and with humans.  The last two I got stayed for 6 weeks and were deemed ready for adoption and both are doing famously in their new homes.  And I did that without the first leash correction or the tiniest bit of force.  It just seems to me that if I can do it, anyone can.

Folks who've been around for awhile will remember when I brought Tyler back home....how timid and fearful he was....and the zillions of questions I asked.  Anne had an overflowing inbox of "how do I do" questions.  And now, according to a trainer friend of mine, he is ready for certification as a therapy dog....even tho he's been doing the work for a year, he's not been certified, and now he will be.

Everything I do with my dogs is "kind and gentle" and I DO get upset when I read about some of the stuff that gets done in the name of training. I think that's where a lot of the conflict comes from......not understanding the other methods, no matter what side you are on.

Now, back to the important stuff......what color shall we make our t shirts??

red? I think red looks good on almost every one =]

The kinds of things I was referenceing to were the petty, little things, that really wont effect the outcoming wellbeing of the dog.

EDIT: I did not mean what I said earlier the way it sounded. I have problems with the public going and trying CM's methods on their own dogs, with no background in training and no real idea of what they are doing. The type of people that watch his TV show, and then think they know it all. Then in turn, I get these dogs turned into the shelter because they reacted badly to their 'training'.

I don't have a huge problem with CM, he does get dogs to change their attitudes. I don't think people realize that he is a professional. He has years of expierence, and knowledge to back up what he is doing.

I am all for PR. But I know that in some circumstances that cannot always be achieved - no matter how hard you try.

I appologize for coming off rude, I was typing quickly what exactly was on my mind, without pausing to think about it!

Eh, not so much with the red.......blues and pale yellows, white........

i would go with a navy blue or a hunter green, something kind of neutral and earth toned.

sad to say, the entire dog training community is plagued with devisiveness, both on and off the forums. you have the PR trainers, the traditionalists and the balanced trainers. the PR trainers tend to see the others as heavy handed or abusive, the traditionalists see the others as bribers and ineffective, the balanced trainers see the others as two opposite extremes.

as for abusive methods, abuse is abuse and it doesn't matter if the trainer is PR or traditional or balanced, they can still be abusive.

i'm a balanced trainer. i have no issues with PR trainers, i just don't have the patience for it. i have no issues with traditionalists, i just am too much of a softy for it.

it also doesn't help that there is no unified terminology among dog trainers. people coin terms that they like and that sound good to the public, but when they use them, someone else might be interpreting them another way. the misunderstanding that stems from this can lead to further devisiveness.

i think we need to start a thread where we can discuss ways to standardize terminology and ways to end devisiveness.

"the only thing two trainers can agree on is that the third one is wrong."

corgipower

ron2

banditxx99

C'mon people.

1...2...3.... FIGHT!  (in thongs, if that'll make you feel better about it)

Now, there's an image. When Xerxes asked DPU if he wears a thong, it took a little while to get the image out of my head. But this one has the interesting twist of combat.

Oh, wait a minute, we're talking about sandals. In the martial arts courses I have taken in formal instruction, we were barefoot.

*Attempts a karate kick aimed at Ron. Fails miserably, but thong flies off foot and bounces off his head before landing on chuffy's back who is still face down in a pile of brownies.

....moaning in ecstasy.  In a thong. 

corgipower

it also doesn't help that there is no unified terminology among dog trainers. people coin terms that they like and that sound good to the public, but when they use them, someone else might be interpreting them another way. the misunderstanding that stems from this can lead to further devisiveness.

This is so true.  We can NEVER assume that others will know what we mean by what we say.  You have to pick words carefully and try to be very clear, because for a start they scant see your face or your body language which would speak volumes to them without them knowing it were you speaking face to face.  And between dog nerds, just a single word can have a variety of meanings outside of the "official" terms and can be loaded with positive or negative emotions, images and inferences.

corgipower

i think we need to start a thread where we can discuss ways to standardize terminology and ways to end devisiveness.

Good old semantics.  Sigh.  I think we will never be unified on that front!  Hope springs eternal!

corgipower

"the only thing two trainers can agree on is that the third one is wrong."

I say this all the time! 

My immediate response to navy or hunter was that I'd have to keep the rubber glove handy to keep it fur free, but then I decided it won't matter since we'll ALL be covered anyway........

I guess I'm on the PR end of "balanced"....although I'm not sure I like that word since it makes the rest of us sound, well, NOT balanced!

I edited my previous post. Sorry to any one who was offended!