Going to be working fulltime..to crate or not to crate?

oranges81

Gordonsgirl came on here asking advice, not to be ripped apart and I gave her my honest opinion.

 

 

I havnt seen any ripping apart done,and i gave her my honest opinion too.Just because it doesnt gel with yours and the majority of 'crate happy' people, doesnt make it wrong. My first and formost concern here are the dogs,and if everyone came onto this thread saying "heyho crating for that long is fine,we all know you love your dog,everything is cool",then what kind of balanced view would that make?  

 

I also posted a routine that has worked for me and my dogs over the years,no crate needed.Had i had a destructo dog i would have blamed myself 100% for not giving the dog enough stimulation.When one works full time and also chooses to have a dog then that dog has to come first,or else dont bother getting a dog until you can work shorter hours or make ample allowances for that dog during the day.

I keep seeing comments like "my dog cant get off leash exercise everyday" for one reason or another,and i bet that plays a huge factor in all of this,dogs need that outlet,all dogs do,and running around in the backyard is no comparison.

 

I try really hard to stay away from these crate threads which is why i very rarely come over to this side of the board,because they truely do upset me,this topic has been the subject of dinner table talk at my house for day's now,and it churns my stomach constantlyAnd when my young son asks me why these people get dogs in the first place i can only answer "i dont know"..But when i see the words 'crate' and 'hours',sometimes i just cant help myself.

 

Maggiemay,i think it was,asked me if i thought it would have been better for her dogs to be euthanised rather than crated for 11 hours a day,all other views aside,for high drive working dogs like blue heelers{i think that's your breed?) who think nothing of running around at full tilt for 10+ hours a day, i would have to say a definite yes.Locking dogs like that up for even a short time would IMO drive them literally mental.

 

And with that i shall bow out of this thread,hopefully i have given some food for thought and made someone else think twice before they crate,or think again before going out to buy a cute pup only to have to crate it for hours everyday.The best analogy I can think of is to suggest to these people that they sit in a closet with no books, no radio, ipod, TV nothing for 10 hours. And of course no toilet breaks. If they are happy in there and want to go back in the next day they can argue their case. There are no rules that state we HAVE to have a dog,they are a luxury,not a neccesity and i say again think not "Why do I want a dog?"  but  "What can I offer a dog?".

 

Gordonsgirl i wish you the best of luck and hope you find a solution that will make you and your dog happy.

Edie

.The best analogy I can think of is to suggest to these people that they sit in a closet with no books, no radio, ipod, TV nothing for 10 hours. And of course no toilet breaks. If they are happy in there and want to go back in the next day they can argue their case.

 

 

That's a terrible analogy. People are not dogs, and dogs are not people. We do not think the same way. Just because you think of horse poop as disgusting doesn't mean that it's not a delicacy for your dogs.

Before I got Teenie, she'd never BEEN outside. She was afraid of grass, and the first time rain hit her back, she screamed. She acted like a leash was going to kill her, and she bit me every time I picked her up (necessary, when the dog is as small as she is).

And even my "off lead" dog doesn't get off lead time on a daily basis. It isn't safe. My neighbors have some really nasty Laboradors that can get through an invisible fence with ease. They'll kill her. It is against the law to allow dogs to run free, in my county, so I don't generally let her go unless I'm on private property. She's just as stimulated by a long down stay in a busy grooming shop as she is by running free (more, really... thinking wears her out) for the same amount of time.

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat There is no "right" way to raise a dog. It's probably pretty safe to assume that if someone is taking the time to come on i-dog, spending the money for premium foods, and attending training classes, their dogs are fairly well cared for.
 

GordonsGirl

Are my posts even being read? I DO come home at noon time, that isn't an issue. Sniper would only be in her crate for up to 4 hours max at a time, if that. Thank you to those who ARE reading my posts!

 

I go home at lunch to let my dogs out and have had both of my dogs since they were 8 weeks old. Both were crated while at work (although Dakota now has the run of the house) and both have turned out just fine. 4 hours is not too long for a 4 month old puppy. Do crate training the right way and it'll work well. Leave the pup with a hanging bowl of water, a stuffed kong, a toy or 2 and give him some good exercise while you're home at lunch (fetch, walk, training, etc.) 4 month old pups still need a good amount of sleep so as long as you make the most of the time you are with him by tiring him out then he'll just sleep while you're gone. 

I always question those who believe dogs are people. Who taught you that they are? What book told you that they need a TV to watch and an ipod to listen to (and by the way, the dogs do get the radio left on when I leave and yes, most of them are crated when no one is home). They are not humans, they are dogs, and do you want to know what dogs do during the day? They sleep. The eight dogs that I have here at the house now have been asleep since about 9ish this morning, got up around 1 to go out, and now are back asleep and will be there until about 6 tonight, when they get up to play. Since I am home, they are on a couch, but if I were gone for those 8 hours, they would be crated with a mid day potty break. They are all in crates that are appropriate size, if not bigger.
I think it is very nice that you devote so much time to your dogs, but do not tell all of us "crate-happy" people that we are cruel and inhumane and selfish because we choose to protect our dogs by using crates.
In addition, it is a REQUIREMENT of anyone purchasing a puppy or rescue dog from me that they crate train. And the main reason for that, it is a REQUIREMENT that the dog be confined to a crate EVERY time he is in the car, for the safety of the dog and the people. Look at it this way. What if someone cut you off and you had to slam on your brakes? Your dog is not hooked in? BAM, right through the window. Or slammed into the dashboard. And your car runs off the road and flips 8 times? What about that dog that was not protected by being confined in a crate? What happens to him in an accident? Its not 100%, but crates have be proven to save the lives of dogs in accidents over dogs that are loose or even in those halter car seats. I have seen it and I consider death from being thrown from a window so much crueler than leaving my dog in a crate for 8 hours.

Can you please point me to anywhere I can read about crates being safer than seat belts?  I honestly don't feel they are but I'm willing to be open minded.

Wasn't it hdkutz who had an accident with his truck and dogs in the bed of his truck, in secured crates....if I remember correctly the dogs were not harmed....something to think about.

Edie...I am starting to think that you claim what you call mega destructo dogs are a product of the owner.......newsflash my dear......severe SA is not created by the owner.....

Personal experience, I know of one dog that was killed in one and several that have suffered whiplash, plus many more than squirm and thrash about in the seatbelts. My experience with crates is I do know of many people who have been traveling with dogs that have rolled RVs and box vans, been in accidents, and the dogs are safe and protected in their crates. I will take a crate over one of those seatbelt harnesses any day of the week.
But I also do hours and hours of traveling with multiple dogs and I have to have them in crates. I can not ever do the seat belts, just do not work in my situation, but the few times I have used them ,I was not happy or impressed with them.

Edie

 

Maggiemay,i think it was,asked me if i thought it would have been better for her dogs to be euthanised rather than crated for 11 hours a day,all other views aside,for high drive working dogs like blue heelers{i think that's your breed?) who think nothing of running around at full tilt for 10+ hours a day, i would have to say a definite yes.Locking dogs like that up for even a short time would IMO drive them literally mental.

Just food for thought, not all dogs are high prey driven working dogs that require hours and hours of exercise. My Beagles would rather sleep for 24 hours than run. In fact, they hardly run at all. They go outside, do what needs to be done there, come inside, sleep the day away, play and wrestle for about 2-3 hours in the evening, then sleep more. Get up to eat dinner, play outside for an hour or so, then go into their crates to sleep. Some hunting dogs I have huh?

LOL, my dad had three beagles when I was growing up.  And, one of them would just lay down and not want to hunt after so long.  They'd have to carry him back to the car. 

 

jennie_c_d

She's just as stimulated by a long down stay in a busy grooming shop as she is by running free (more, really... thinking wears her out) for the same amount of time.

 

 

Really?  

Edie

Maggiemay,i think it was,asked me if i thought it would have been better for her dogs to be euthanised rather than crated for 11 hours a day,all other views aside,for high drive working dogs like blue heelers{i think that's your breed?) who think nothing of running around at full tilt for 10+ hours a day, i would have to say a definite yes.Locking dogs like that up for even a short time would IMO drive them literally mental.

 Thanks for telling me what my dogs need Edie.  Nice, real nice.

Have you ever seen a dog go kennel crazy?  I have, Maggie to be specific (after 3 weeks in a kennel run at the shelter before I adopted her).  I can tell you her behavior now is about as far from that behavior as it's possible to get - she's not "mental" as you so kindly inferred. 

My newest dog, Ziva, never stopped moving while at the shelter, had no off switch, and about zero attention span.  After a week of my current schedule, she was able to settle nicely next to me in the evening and was learning new things lightening fast.  After several months (to the present), she has a super fast sit and down on cue, solid leave it and drop it, settles when needed, and has about 100 times more self control and attentiveness than she did when we started.  Positive improvements I'd say, and not indicative of being "mental" imo (as an animal behavior major in college btw).

I work at a shelter and I see the effects of much poorer dog care than crating for 8+ hours and a variety of stress related behavior issues due to the kennel environment - neither of my dogs exhibit ANY of the behaviors I see at work.

I recognize that you and those that crate will likely never come to an agreement on the subject, but must you insult anyone whose opinion is different from yours?  Do you have anything to support your stance other than anecdotal observations and anthropomorphism??

And just so no one thinks that I'm a crazy crate-a-holic, I personally believe dogs should be transitioned out of a crate as soon as they are reliable inside and can be trusted not to hurt themselves or the environment when left alone.

To the OP, sorry the thread has gone off in a wild direction.  You know your dog best and will do right by him no matter what you choose.  You have plenty of options as you can tell. :)
 

denise m

jennie_c_d

She's just as stimulated by a long down stay in a busy grooming shop as she is by running free (more, really... thinking wears her out) for the same amount of time.

 

 

Really?  

 

 

Yeah, really. She isn't satisfied unless she's working. Running around free is not working. She considers obedience to be her job. When she was sick last week, and on Prednisone, I didn't work her all week. By the end of the week, she was heeling everywhere without any cues, and begging me to give her a command. On Friday morning, she pitched a FIT to go to obedience class. She was still a bit swollen, and we didn't work much, but we went. I've never seen her happier than when she's been actively competing in obedience, and I used to bike 3 miles a day with her (my butt doesn't thank me for stopping).