Raja Has Heartworm - I feel horrible

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    • Gold Top Dog
    Ashley people here have given great advice to which I cannot add - so .......
    Me & the Bugster are pulling for Raja - hopefully it will be responsive to an easier fix and no serious damage is done
    As for worrying about her past - dogs really do live in the moment. Stay in the moment and she will too

    Good luck!
    • Gold Top Dog
    Even though I have no advice for you I want you to know that I will be thinking of you and Raja and hoping for the very best. Big belly scratches and hugs coming your way.
    • Gold Top Dog
      I hope that it's in the early stages and easily treatable; thank goodness Callie knows of an inexpensive way to treat Raja. I'm sending prayers and hugs.
    • Gold Top Dog
    oi vey!  now i'm thinking i should hav MY dogs tested again!!! 
     
    there is nothing else you could have done, and believe me, i know what it's like to hav *no* money... i would suggest, though, that you start putting like $5.00 a week aside in an account especially for raja *just in case* when you get a job...
     
    i'm sooo sorry this happened to you!  also, there is some VERY valuable information in this thread that i never would have known otherwise, so thanks everyone!
    • Gold Top Dog
    saveastray -- if you will email me I will send you the same info I gave her.  (in fact I'd be glad to call and bend YOUR ear on the phone -- it can help). 
     
    What breed (s) is Gracie?  the 'slow' treatment with ivermectin can't be done on herders. Well, theoretically you could do it with Interceptor but it would be pricy -- milbemycin isn't sold in farm strength the way ivermectin is. 
     
    When we treated Socks, she was 10 1/2 and the heartworm was so advanced for her not only was she 'coughing' but her heart was massively enlarged and the heartworm adults were also nested in her lungs.  She couldn't even take the immiticide -- it would have killed her.
     
    But even if you go the route of the immiticide I can help you know how to walk thru it -- there is a lot vets don't explain (particularly about why it's so critical to keep them absolutely completely 'quiet'). 
     
    Badrap -- you are 100% correct.  $5 a week just became over $200 a year and it's "change". (altho when we're broke a lot of us LIVE on change)
     
    But given the sick dog rescue that my husband and I do, our vet bills are sometimes astronomical.  I learned a LONG time ago to have a separate savings account -- and any time I get my hands on "found money" (whether it's sofa cushion money or when the boss reimburses me for that postage I paid out of my pocket or something I bought for the office) -- I put that money into that savings account (I don't even trust myself to go to the bank - I just mail a check to the bank!!!). 
     
    BUT -- last year when Billy wound up with IMHA and spent 3 weeks in ICU up at U of FL small animal hospital?  My "slush fund" paid for it.  Now granted -- my Christmas bonus was in there too -- BUT we had the money to pay for it and we didn't starve. 
     
    10 years ago I would have been ... [insert major bad word].  10 years ago I was still LIVING out of sofa cushion money!  But those bad old days taught me to squirrel away money for when I didn't have it.  10 years ago I would have choked if someone had suggested using my tax refund as a vet slush fund. 
     
    However - now I do it without even thinking.  Cos it works.  But if you start with the $5 a week -- it's a habit that picks up speed after it saves your butt once.
    • Gold Top Dog
    10 years ago, i'd have been in BAD trouble, too.... good god, 10 years ago i was staying with friends in the winter because i couldn't afford to heat my apartment and feed my dog.
    • Gold Top Dog
    First, yes, it does happen and it's not in any way your fault! And you haven't hurt her a bit by giving her meds during this time. Most likely she had larvae at the time of the test which developed into a few adults in between test and the next meds. It happens to many rescues and there's not a darn thing you can really do about it. Actually, it happens to the best owner sometimes when a dog upchucks a med dose, or they forget a month.

    I have a dog that is allergic to Interceptor (guess who? You got it! Ben!) and I didn't realize for about nine months that he was barfing up the pills behind the couch. I moved the couch to clean one day, and realized what Ben had been doing back there. [:o] Boy was I sweating the next day at the vet - actually I was almost crying.

    He was negative but that was when the vet explained about the life cycle of the parasite and why it would have been fine - at the worst he would have had three months worth of mature worms and that wouldn't have been enough to warrant full treatment. We did test again six months later, and six months after that - and he started on monthly Ivomec. He's allergic to the Hartguard pills, too (go figure) - it's what they put into them though, not the ivermectin. What a mess. I've got another that's allergic to Interceptor so everyone is on good ol' Ivomec. It's cheaper anyway. [:D]

    Here's what will happen. The next step is to determine the extent of the infection. If it's just a few adults, your vet may simply make you lay your hand on a sacred text and swear to keep up monthly treatment (with ivermectin - Hartguard) until she tests negative. This may take six months to two years. The monthly treatment will kill the babies the adults have, and just a few adults won't harm her.

    If for some reason she has a more extensive infection, the vet may still suggest the above treatment if there is no evidence of damage to her heart or other organs. The vet will determine this with blood tests, a chest xray, and possibly an ultrasound evaluation. This is where the cash starts flowing like water! Blood tests will run about $75 to $125 total, and the radiography depends on your area - where I used to live, it would have been less than $200, but now that I'm closer to a major urban center, that stuff runs, well, you don't want to know. Fortunately I've never had a case where the vet actually called for an US, though they've always mentioned it as a possibility. And of course anything involving hefting dogs around is more for big dogs, so I hope they don't want to do this to Raja! [:o]

    Okay, if the vet thinks there is immediate danger from the worm load she's carrying, they will give you an estimate of what the actual treatment will cost. My vet starts the dog on a course of blood thinner (aspirin if there is no danger to the GI) - about two weeks ahead of time, and that's when I start a dog on milk thistle, antioxidants, and other supportive supplements also.

    There's usually two doses of the arsenic compound given about twelve to eighteen hours apart, so there will be an overnight stay involved. Painkillers and an IV will be used - my vet only tacks on charges for these things if she's feeling fiesty - as when someone pulls up in their Mercedes, who couldn't be bothered to keep up with the HW pills. [sm=devil.gif] I know other places do charge for that kind of stuff and it does add up.

    Your dog will be a bit under the weather and sore the first day back home, then will feel terrific the next week or so. It is imperative, however, that she stay absolutely quiet - crated is best. The more quiet the dog is the first week, the easier the third week will be. Quiet is important because solid waste from the dying worms will be floating around in the dog's bloodstream and it takes up to four weeks for her immune system to process it all. Clots can end up in the heart, lungs, or brain if the heart voids these wastes too fast, while contracting during exercise.

    But you can't see this happening and up to about halfway through the second week you'll wonder what all the fuss is about - your dog never seemed sick and now seems better than ever! Your vet will probably have you come in for a checkup to listen to the lungs and heart around this time and he or she will ask whether you've heard any coughing or retching.

    Then late in the second week, the toxins from the dead worms will hit the dog's system and she'll look and act like death warmed over for anywhere from two to seven days. It's pretty awful. Sometimes if the infection wasn't too bad you barely get this - but I've noticed it every time. This is the worst part, though, and if you've done your homework it will go fast and with no real harm to your dog. My vet gives Rimadyl for this part but I rarely use it - I feel the pain keeps the dog quieter and I prefer not to challenge the liver further than need be. Your main job is to make her as comfortable as possible, encourage her appetite, and fix things that are exceptionally good for her like Satin Balls and crockpot meals! Plus you'll be listening for any coughing or barfing on your vet's instructions.

    Sometime the last week she'll "bloom" but you are not out of the woods yet. It's still leash walking and crate rest until the doctor gives you the all clear. My vet will usually just recommend ivomec if the test is still positive after the fourth week.

    My vet charges the least of any place I've seen in this state - it's $300 for the whole ball of wax - though as a rescuer and trainer I get about a 30% discount on that (they have named the new wing of their clinic after me, too). I think most other places charge from $400 to $500. If you feel comfortable shopping around, what you want to do is get a second opinion - I really think that if she has a really light load of just a few newly mature adults, that you would be safe with religiously treating with Hartguard.

    I just realized that I know way too much about heartworms and their treatment. Does anyone know what mosquitoes are good for exactly? Because I'm suddenly wishing we could bomb them all. A friend who is a researcher in parasitology and a dog lover (of course), was wondering idly one day why we haven't seen any evidence of resistance to heartworm meds (resistance means the worms are unaffected by the meds). I said "A pox be upon you for even thinking that!"
    • Gold Top Dog
    Oh I forgot about the cost thing: they told us the whole treatment, if we went that route, would be around $400. So far I think the x-ray was just under $100, the microfloria test wasn't too bad, $30 or $40?

     
    Thanks for all of the info about Gracie, I tried to do a search but it did not work for me. I am hoping to treat the way Callie said with Ivermectin,daily, I am not sure how this will go over with the vet, but I just do not have the money for the immiticide treatment from the vets. I really hope Gracie gets better and is feeling good. Also thanks for all of the links they were great and helped.
     
     
    oi vey!  now i'm thinking i should hav MY dogs tested again!!! 

    there is nothing else you could have done, and believe me, i know what it's like to hav *no* money... i would suggest, though, that you start putting like $5.00 a week aside in an account especially for raja *just in case* when you get a job...

    i'm sooo sorry this happened to you!  also, there is some VERY valuable information in this thread that i never would have known otherwise, so thanks everyone!

    Yes that is exactly what I am going to start doing from now on...save some money. Thank god I have $200 saved up that was supposed to go to her training, which she really really needs. But will most likely go her vet visit on Monday. My mom will help for anything else.
     
    BrookCove- You gave ALOT of good info that will be very helpful in treating her and knowing what to expect. I can only hope it isn't too advanced. I know she has had it for at the VERY least 7 months, but she was an outside dog for 2 years..so it could have been longer, but she is not showing any signs, so that makes me think she is not that advanced. That helps that you broke down all of the treatment costs too, I really had no idea what to expect....I will admit I am also thinking...now what are mosquitos good for again?????
     
     
    And to everyone else who has replied and wished us good luck and kept us in your thoughts, thank you so so much. Raji has her vet app. Monday, I really am not sure what exactly they will do, but I know for sure they will be doing an x-ray and a test to see how advanced the HW is. At this point I am hoping to go with the treatment Callie suggested. It seemed much less invasive and more reasonably priced. I am going to tell her vet that is what I plan on doing and I am not sure how happy she will be, but at this point doing the daily Ivermectin seems like the best choice.
     
    I will post an update on monday after her app and tell you how it went...I am not sure if I will get the test back right away that says how advanced it is, or if it has to be sent to a lab, but hopefully I will get some indication on how she is. Thanks again everyone.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Becca, thanks for the info on what to expect. We were going with the monthly preventive, but Gracie's latest x-ray showed more progression than the vet was comfortable with, so we're starting the tx on the 12th. Gracie has started on low-dose aspirin therapy (same as me, a baby aspirin a day!) and we're starting to get her used to being in her crate for longer periods again, so hopefully by the time the 12th rolls around, she'll be more tolerant of being in it a long time. I'm sure the vet will tell us, but what do you do if they start coughing or vomiting? How much time do you have to get them in to an ER vet if it is a clot? And are there any other recommendations you have for helping her to get through this? 
    • Gold Top Dog
    So Raji went to the vets today and was there almost all day, they did an xray and blood work. The x-rays came out good, he said her heart looked normal. And the blood test was just a normal blood test, an overall health test.

    I thought there was some sort of blood panel they did to see how far advanced it is, but he said no they just do the xray to how advanced it is.

    If I go through the vet for treatment with Immidicide it will be over $700, I checked 3 diff. vets too. So I am going to treat her with the daily Ivermection. The vet did not seem too thrilled about it, but I just do not have that much money. Her xray,exam and blood work cost over $200 today.

    Just thought I'd let everyone know that things look good!

    • Gold Top Dog
    Ashley - I'm happy to hear that the x-ray didn't show anything more serious.  Keep in close contact with Callie.  She can guide you thru this and give you great advice.  We've got fingers and paws crossed that the Ivermectin treatment will clear this up.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ashley - I read this thread for the first time today and my heart goes out to you big time.  My thoughts are with you and I'm so glad that its not advanced
    All the best
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ashley,
     
    Thanks for letting us know. I hope the Ivermectin treatment will do the trick. Hugs and scratches to both of you.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ashley, that's great news!  You & Raja are in my thoughts still.  Give her some BIG belly skritches from me. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    Callie, I JUST saw this! OMG, I'm going to PM you right now! Please don't think I was ignoring your help, when posts slip off the active page I quickly forget about them! Gracie is doing well, we're into the second week now and I've only heard her cough a few times.