I need Advice..PLEASE

    • Gold Top Dog
    Here's the update.  I called AC & they will check out her hoarding (in her private home).  Apparently there are 2 agencies that will check into things.  One for hoarding & 1 for the DD conditions.  I do not want or need my name involved in either case & I was assured by AC that it will not name me.  Like Sara (badrap) said, I live in small town USA & word does travel.
    Chances are the other agency may not be able to do anything about the conditions in the DD but there are the issues of her not having insurance or permits. 
    Think about it, you talk to someone about taking care of your dog & you check on the facilities.  Everything seems okay.  You can only go on what you see & what you are told.  Once you leave your dog there you have no real idea what happens there.  You go on with your life thinking that you are doing good by your dog & it's being taken care of & is *safe*.  Short of dropping by unannounced or having a "nanny cam" how can you be sure that your dog is being taken care of?  Olivia is a decent sales woman & will tell anyone what they *want* to hear.  You have to trust on some level that she's being upfront with you & not expect that all this garbage is going on behind your back.  To me it's the same as daycare for children or nursing home for your parent.  You are entrusting someone you love in a stranger's care. 
    I need to thank everyone who has responded.  You all have given me the strength to follow through on something I *know* is right.
    I really like the idea of the article about choosing a good doggie daycare.  That's something I hadn't even given any thought to.  That's brilliant!
    • Gold Top Dog
    What a tough situation. Good job doing what you know is right. The animals' owners will be thankful. If AC can't/won't do anything, what about filing a report with the better business bureau?
    • Gold Top Dog
    I hope that the agencies are able to help those dogs.  I know that if someone used a shock collar on one of my dogs without my permission, I would be some mad.  Things would get ugly in a Massachusetts millisecond.
    • Bronze
    Contact some local officials thats your best bet.
    Contacting owners is a bad idea, theyll think your trying to hurt the kennel because you quit.
     
    Sign my guest book:http://www.showdogspace.com/index.php/public/user/name_showdogspace/
    • Gold Top Dog
    to the comment....
    I wonder if you would be able to personally contact the dog owners who take their dogs there? Either write them a letter or call them and explain your concerns.... but of course you would need to know or find their contact info to do that....
     
    OH NO DO NOT DO THAT!!!!!! You can be sued!!!
     
    I will agree that is sounds a bit like this lady does not know what she is doing. If you are in Northern Illinios I think I may know who you are talking about...or this has happened yet again.
    First...there is a message forum for Doggie Day Cares and Doggie Daycare owners and those interested in starting one...I can get you the address if my wife still has it. I would post your concerns and questions there and see what the folks there have to say. They will likey has some advice for you.
    Doggie Day Care are a wee bit like Rescue ( of which I am involved in ) ...it is unregulated and it is assumed the people involved in it will behave appropriately because they love dogs. Unfortunately that is not the reality of it.
     
    The shock collars is a training choice. I personally do not like them. We have had to use them on a dog who failed nearly all other forms of training. I was not happy about it...but...WHEN USED CORRECTLY...they can be a good training aid. It is that most people do not use them correctly...and it does not sound like this lady is using it correctly to me. I actually think that she needs permission to use one from the owners...but that may not be the case depending on where she is.
     
    The dog on the pole...
    This is forced proximity training. It is really touch and go on whether or not it will work or not. Forced proximity training is a desensitizing of a dog to certian stimuli...in this case other dogs.  A doggie daycare IS NOT THE PLACE for this kind of training however. Forced proximity training ( if you have ever seen the movie "White Dog"...same thing) needs to be done is a CALM AND CONTROLLED environment. It needs to be advanced slowly and gently and handled with the utmost care and control.  This kind of training should be used by only the most experienced and skilled trainers. Doing it in the middle of a doggie daycare is not only wrong it proves this lady does not have a full grasp on what she is doing.
     
    I would contact your local media as well as your local animal control. ( not the humane society...there is not much they can do) Find out what your local laws are. I do not know how your animal control is...but around here if someone makes a report...it HAS to be followed up on...and then there is a record. As an example...the PETA idiot who moved in down the road from us called on us. She accused us of "harboring a vicious animal" because a Coonhound we had in the rescue howled like a fool when she walked her dogs by our house.  Our animal control knows better. In fact the officer had just been here dropping off some paperwork for a dog. We know our animal control officer very well...but the report was made so she HAD to come. She knew she would not find anything when she got here. We know have a "record" in animal controls files...thanx to some PETA idiot who does not even know what a Coonhound is more less what to expect from their behavior...but once the call is made it has to be checked out.
     
    The problem you are going to have is that one persons definition of abuse is not the same as the next. While you and I may not think shock collars are necessary...the truth is that they are a nationally accepted training tool. The tethered dog to a pole, while questionable...again is not unheard of. It is an actual training method...though being used incorrectly...incorrect use does not denote abuse ( as far as the law is concerned anyway).
    You best angle here is going to be if you can prove that dogs are being injured by other dogs in the day care. ( especially if any of the dogs required veterinary care) If you can prove that she is not interviewing the owners with their dogs, not having a "trial period", and not temperment testing the dogs coming into her facility...then you may have something. It does not sound like she has really broken any laws persay...but through the media you may be able to sway public opinion against her. I think if people knew that their dogs were in potential danger...( especially training a dog known to be dog aggressive during business hours)...at her facility they would not be very happy.
     
    I do believe you are within your legal rights to stand outside her facility ( but off of her property) and hand out flyers so long as those flyers do not make direct accusations and do not use the business's name in them...but you will need to check with a lawyer on that.
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    oooh, handing out flyers just off her property line!  do i smell a PICKETT????[:D][:D]  lemme know, lemme know, and i'll get out my signs!  wheeeeee i do love a good protest![;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    I will agree that is sounds a bit like this lady does not know what she is doing. If you are in Northern Illinois I think I may know who you are talking about...or this has happened yet again.
    No, this is not in N Illinois so it's happening again.  Sad, huh?
    First...there is a message forum for Doggie Day Cares and Doggie Daycare owners and those interested in starting one...I can get you the address if my wife still has it. I would post your concerns and questions there and see what the folks there have to say. They will likely has some advice for you.
    Doggie Day Care are a wee bit like Rescue ( of which I am involved in ) ...it is unregulated and it is assumed the people involved in it will behave appropriately because they love dogs. Unfortunately that is not the reality of it.
    I would love to see *some* degree of accountability of those who take care of our pets.  Unfortunately love is not always good enough.

    The shock collars is a training choice. I personally do not like them. We have had to use them on a dog who failed nearly all other forms of training. I was not happy about it...but...WHEN USED CORRECTLY...they can be a good training aid. It is that most people do not use them correctly...and it does not sound like this lady is using it correctly to me. I actually think that she needs permission to use one from the owners...but that may not be the case depending on where she is.
    I'll be the first to say that I'm no expert & maybe I'm being softhearted but I know that she's not using them correctly.  She is not consistent in her training methods.  One thing I *do* know is that consistency is the key to any kind of training.

    The dog on the pole...
    This is forced proximity training. It is really touch and go on whether or not it will work or not. Forced proximity training is a desensitizing of a dog to certain stimuli...in this case other dogs.  A doggie daycare IS NOT THE PLACE for this kind of training however. Forced proximity training ( if you have ever seen the movie "White Dog"...same thing) needs to be done is a CALM AND CONTROLLED environment. It needs to be advanced slowly and gently and handled with the utmost care and control.  This kind of training should be used by only the most experienced and skilled trainers. Doing it in the middle of a doggie daycare is not only wrong it proves this lady does not have a full grasp on what she is doing.
    This is my main concern.  She calls herself a "trainer" but she has no clue.  Even I know that if you're going to desensitize a dog it's got to be done slowly & methodically.  Nothing she does is methodical.  This is my BIGGEST worry.  She's clueless & putting other dogs @ risk.

    I would contact your local media as well as your local animal control. ( not the humane society...there is not much they can do) Find out what your local laws are. I do not know how your animal control is...but around here if someone makes a report...it HAS to be followed up on...and then there is a record. As an example...the PETA idiot who moved in down the road from us called on us. She accused us of "harboring a vicious animal" because a Coon hound we had in the rescue howled like a fool when she walked her dogs by our house.  Our animal control knows better. In fact the officer had just been here dropping off some paperwork for a dog. We know our animal control officer very well...but the report was made so she HAD to come. She knew she would not find anything when she got here. We know have a "record" in animal controls files...thanx to some PETA idiot who does not even know what a Coonhound is more less what to expect from their behavior...but once the call is made it has to be checked out.

    The problem you are going to have is that one persons definition of abuse is not the same as the next. While you and I may not think shock collars are necessary...the truth is that they are a nationally accepted training tool. The tethered dog to a pole, while questionable...again is not unheard of. It is an actual training method...though being used incorrectly...incorrect use does not denote abuse ( as far as the law is concerned anyway).
    You best angle here is going to be if you can prove that dogs are being injured by other dogs in the day care. ( especially if any of the dogs required veterinary care) If you can prove that she is not interviewing the owners with their dogs, not having a "trial period", and not temperament testing the dogs coming into her facility...then you may have something. It does not sound like she has really broken any laws persay...but through the media you may be able to sway public opinion against her. I think if people knew that their dogs were in potential danger...( especially training a dog known to be dog aggressive during business hours)...at her facility they would not be very happy.
    I can't prove alot.  It's my word versus her word.  That's a slippery slope.  I do know someone who said "I've got your back on this" but quite honestly my levels of trust are VERY low at this point.  I know the only person I can trust is me right now.  I have no records & I'm not going anywhere near the daycare.  I do know that she'll take any dog who's owners have th $$ to pay for daycare.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I agree with the person that said to contact the local media if AC doesn't follow through.  DO NOT contact the dog owners, that could get you in serious trouble, even thought your concerns are legit.  The news channels around here all have tip lines and even anonymous web forms you can fill in.  Companies making money from mistreating animals....they eat this stuff up!!  I'd give it a try.  That way, some or all of the owners WILL find out and you won't be sued.