Am I being immature?

  I would be more concerned about what is inside than what is outside.  Years from now none of the piercings, tats, etc. will matter, just like the long haired peace sign flashing baby boomers turned into productive moral members of society.

It's tough -- there's a balance here amongst all of this (altho Joyce, I DARE you to tell Mr. Ignite/Melt the next time you see him what your nickname for him was ... and I'd bet you'd surely get away with it *smile*).

On one hand yep -- people leaving their SMALL kids with someone tend to want the best in not just "normalcy" but **cleanliness**.  I think you'd find most folks *without* piercings would respond to a nose piercing with "ewww, what if you GOT A COLD??" more than the 'looks' factor (and I've heard those words many times).

but little kids grab -- and often they grab and PULL HARD.  So pink hair isn't going to hurt (and depending on what you're wearing it can be a lot of fun) -- but shoot, when I was teaching pre-school, I used to take out my earrings when I was gonna be dealing with *babies* cos they grab and pull!!!  Either you're going to get pain you can't believe or torn skin -- and then you get pandemonium, kids crying and generally that's not what anyone wants.  Add the "church" part to it and you are probably not on safe ground.

As an aside -- I've worked in lawfirms that would terminate you for getting a tat that *showed*!!!!  A friend of mine (and this was 12 years ago) got fired for a tat on her ankle she couldn't cover up with hose!  And she was 40 then! (and it was a gorgeous 'fairy' tat -- nothing gruesome). 

But someone spoke above about the young man (actually severall mentioned) held back seriously in life because of a couple of tattoos.  That's a shame but in a world where you are either trying to instill confidence in someone (as in law enforcement or any sort of sales or public-oriented job) or trying to gain respect -- you can seriously be setting yourself up for a short-circuited career by altering your looks too seriously to be covered up should you change your mind.

I have a tattoo and frankly David and I both love it.  I got it after I booted my ex out (long story but he tried to rape me after I kicked him out) and for *me* my tat was simply my little step of "NO ONE touches this but me!!!" stand.  It's on the upper slope of my (*grin* oops, I could fun afoul of our famous banned words list) b*east and is just one single rose.  It rarely shows except with certain necklines (and necklines I'm NOT wearing to work, trust me!!). 

But when I got it I thot long and hard (being the 40+ year old I was) -- I didn't want it where it was gonna look ugly when I got saggy/baggy, nor did I want it to show when I didn't WANT it to show, nor did I ever want to have to shop endlessly for an outfit because it didn't 'work' with the event.  I.e., I didn't want it to limit my life I wanted to enhance it.

I've lived life where there were times when I wanted to slop around in jeans or go to a cocktail party -- and if I'm gonna give someone something to talk *about* I'd rather be of my choosing rather than them talking about something I'd deliberately done to myself (as in "WHY would anyone want to look like that!";)

Mostly -- my point is -- what you choose to look like today may be 100% your choice.  BUT when people make choices - like tats and piercings that literally alter how they look at first glance -- that says to *other* people that they DON'T CARE about their reputation or other's perception.  And when someone goes to that length to "spit in the eye" of convention ... that tends to leave a negative impression.

And it can be a negative impression many years later.  Maybe it shouldn't ... but it does. 

And the real kicker is that often I don't think these folks realize how much THEY may change over time.  I work with a gal who has a big tattoo encircling her ankle, and one on the back of her neck.

SHE HATES THEM.  She was in her teens and now she's 30.  NOW she has a baby -- and suddenly her whole outlook on life is literally different.  She said to me one day a few months ago "As much trouble as I gave my folks when I was a kid ... MY daughter is not going to date until she's 30 and she's NEVER going to get a tattoo!! NOT EVER!!"

Obviously she was joking ... but she's not.  She bitterly regrets the fact that when she was younger she was SO sure she'd never ever *care* and ... now she does.  Mostly, now she regrets her own short-sightedness. 

Neither tat is that ugly -- but the thing that she hates is NOW she has no choice.  She's tried corrective and it only made it worse.  NOW further corrective work is going to be not only expensive but painful. 

Hair grows, shoot even  Brittany Spears' will grow out.  

But no redlegos - you aren't being immature.  But thinking beyond this moment tends to make you unpopular with those who want to go WITH the moment. 

For a generation who always wants "options" some folks kind of go out of their way to narrow those options seriously.

Callie, that was a good point about tattoos looking quite different after "saggy baggy" sets in.  Just think - in about 40/50 years we're going to have a population of elderly folks wandering around with some really, really weird looking tats.

Joyce

"Callie, that was a good point about tattoos looking quite different after "saggy baggy" sets in.  Just think - in about 40/50 years we're going to have a population of elderly folks wandering around with some really, really weird looking tats."

"And it can be a negative impression many years later.  Maybe it shouldn't ... but it does."

  Tattoos are considered art, and I think the style, whether influenced by age or not, will hold more bearing on the impression perceived than anything else.   Consider the difference between the older gentleman with an anchor, and USN on the forearm, as opposed to the younger hispanic with MS13 in the same location.  The so called "tramp stamps" that are fashionable among younger women will be commonplace items on middle age women in a couple of decades.

  Will this make the middle age woman "unhirable" due to enjoying the liberty of a little tat?  There are going to be a lot of unhireable woman out there in a couple of decades if this holds true.  The same holds true for peircings.  30+ years ago a male with a pierced ear was seen as rebellious, it is so common now as to be unnoticed in most cases, and not seen as anything unconventional.

  Convention is judged by society, and as society changes, so does convention.

Tolak

Will this make the middle age woman "unhirable" due to enjoying the liberty of a little tat?  There are going to be a lot of unhireable woman out there in a couple of decades if this holds true.  The same holds true for peircings.  30+ years ago a male with a pierced ear was seen as rebellious, it is so common now as to be unnoticed in most cases, and not seen as anything unconventional.

If we weren't a society so completely obsessed with the outward appearance I might think you were right.  But ... we are.  And that tends not to get 'better' with time ... it has tended to become more and more obsessive.  Look at how young girls are literally "dying to be thin" and athletes are still succumbing to the lure of steroid built bodies ... and the billions of dollars spent on "looking younger", "hiding the grey" and "staying in shape". 

And you missed my point -- it doesn't make a woman 'unhireable' in ALL jobs.  But in some? Oh yeah it sure can.   When some folks try so hard to "alter" their appearance in ways that can't be 'undone' -- they tend to change things more than they may think.  Because people are going to think what they think ... like the young fellow mentioned above ... when one particular person was there to 'fight for him' he did fine ... but later on it held him back despite the fact that he's quite capable. 

 People are going to see the outward appearance -- whether it's someone fat, thin, unkempt, neat, tattooed, or pierced, or not ... and they're going to draw conclusions about that person.  Before a word is uttered or a deed is done.  It's the way humans are. 

There is a difference between tattoos and markings in places that can be easily not seen and ones that are so seriously "in your face" that covering them up is nearly impossible. 

And I have to say, when I got my tattoo I literally went to THE BEST I could find.  I paid a bit more, and to this day I am thrilled with my tattoo.  But a lot of "wearable art" is more the product of a whim than a plan, and it can be a very permanent reminder of an evening you can't remember.  (Like my friend's anklet - which truly is blurry and not very pretty at all.) 

  Oh, I agree that society is hung on appearance, and has been for a very long time.  It doesn't get better either, what is in just changes.  Years ago the more voluptuous 'Marilyn Monroe" shape was in for women, followed a few years later by the "Twiggy" figure.  No doubt first impressions make an initial impact, and a decision is drawn at times off of that first impression.  An intelligent employer should be an intellegent buyer, not impulsive when shopping for something that affects the bottom line of a company, as an employee in some positions can.  Unless you are hiring someone for purely visual effect, such as a model, you are selling the customer a false impression of the product you promise, unless there is substance behind the package. Most businesses rely on either return customers, or referrals from satisfied customers.  An empty package provides neither.  Perhaps with age comes a little wisdom here, but I personally woudn't work for a company that hired me on my appearance as opposed to what I know and can do.  The exception might be as a model, but that is an incredible long shot.

  I do understand what you are saying about the full sleeve tats, or facial tats, this is a turnoff to many folks, especially those with more conservative values.  From what I've seen it is many times the older folks who can get past this initial "cover of the book" judgement to find out what this person is really like, the results being that the two think alike in many respects.  A perfect example is my 90y.o. ultra conservative, ultra religous spinster aunt, and my daughter's 26 y.o. boyfriend, with the full sleeve tats, and more facial piercings than I can count.  They sat and talked for over an hour last summer at a family bar-b-cue, 30+ other people either of them could have chosen to talk to.  She has seen enough of the world to have a more open view of people, while he appreciates the view of more experienced people.  If either one of them had a "he's weird/she's old" attitude they would have missed out on a nice conversation, and perhaps a learning experience.

  The worst at this from what I've seen is the early/mid 30's crowd, conservative look, dress, & attitude. If you are the least bit different in look you are instantly judged as useless to them, until their car breaks down, their furnace goes out, or some other such occurance that they are clueless about.  THEN they will talk to the overweight biker with the full beard & tats, or the metalhead with a dozen peircings, because they have a box of tools & knowlege to straighten out their problem.  That is all they want, and it is their loss, as when you get to know folks like this they are the ones who will be there for you when it hits the fan, regardless the situation.  The yuppy types are mainly backstabbers, the ones they see as unconventional generally have higher moral values.

Quality does vary wildly with tattoos, but when it comes to a tat that is thought out beforehand with meaning quality is out the window in my book.  An india ink tat with reference to a significant event in that person's life is more important, and thus more valuable to that person than the expensive well done tat done on a whim.  Personally I have 4, all on the upper arms, of good quality that relate to things that have occured in my life.

  More and more I'm noticing the tattoos that were considered freak show items when I was much younger, such as full sleeves, showing up on police officers, attorneys, and such.  This is the sort of thing I'm referring to when I stated that convention is judged by society, and as society changes so does convention.

Tolak

Oh, I agree that society is hung on appearance, and has been for a very long time.  It doesn't get better either, what is in just changes. 

I agree with this but honestly in real life, (or even on here for example) I don't try and judge someone until I actually have a conversation with them. Like I've mentioned, I love body modification, so I'm completely into what she's doing.. I just don't think it's a good idea considering our job. (Which she never considered) Kids pull things ..they indeed do have grabby hands. They also get mad and throw things.. which I've taken hits to the face a couple of times, lol. Piercings on the face are bad for so many reasons with our job, but even more so because the children we care for are so young.

The 2nd reason it's so bad is because it's a CHURCH daycare. I do believe somewhere in the bible it says something like "your body is a temple" and you shouldn't destroy your temple. Therefore, getting piercings and tattoos does this. I'm nowhere near perfect and I don't expect anyone else to be. Heck, I have piercings and I'm getting tattoos of my own. The point is though, I think you should show that much respect and not wear it, wait to get one, ect. Just for work.

Because as a parent, I would judge. There is no way in hell I'd trust my *nonexistant* children with just anyone, but not someone who was a pegnant teen with piercings, or a girl with multiple face piercings, ect.

I'll nod along with those who say it is the management's place to have and enforce a policy, and that it has to be fair.  Is your friend looking to do this kind of work for a long time to come?  Did she ask you what you think in terms of her future career options?  If not, you said your opinion, now let it go.

depends on ages of kids, but surely theres a health and safety issue?  will nearly ripped my sisters earlobe open the other day!  i would be wary of leaving him with ANYONE who wore dangly earrings or even some kinds of clothes that can get caught or tangled... or even with long hair not tied back.  Call me judgemental if you wish, but I want someone practical and sensible looking after my kid.  An appearance which suggests that they care more about their appearance than how practical their turn out is for their working envirnment would turn me right off.

FourIsCompany

 I refuse to judge people based on their outward expression of themselves.

I understand how other people do - and I think it's a shame because everyone wants to be loved and accepted for who they are, no matter how it appears they act to the contrary. Yes, I would leave my kids there because whether they had piercings or not or wore rings or not, they're still the same people.

Wonderfully stated and I just wanted to say I agree. I do not judge people based on how they look on the outside without getting to know them first. The punk/goth teens that I have met have been some of the most wonderful, caring, loving and genuinely nice people I had ever come in contact with. I prefer to hang out with them rather than the "jocks" that I have come in contact with that seem to have the "I'm greater than you" attitude. I do understand how some older people judge the youth now, but I for one would leave my children there as well. 

I genuinely dont get this though... judging is what humans do, all the time, most of the time without thinking about it.  And when you have a reason to want to judge someone - or NEED to (eg. they will be looking after your child) and you barely know them, their appearance is the first and often the most important thing.  Why go dressed smartly to a job interview?  Why make sure your CV is well presented and easy to read?  Why is the phrase "You never get a second chance to make a first impression" so well known and so often heeded?  Because appearances DO matter and EVERYONE judges based on appearance (though I'll grant you some people TRY not to) whether they want to or not.  That's just the way people are.

Knowing this, if I was working in that environment, I would tone down my dress, in deference to clients and my employer.  The fact that these girls appear to not have any deference for the employer or clients says volumes... much more than the appearance alone.

There is something to be said for wearing job appropriate clothing. 

I do not wear a formal dress horseback riding,
I do not wear sandals to work out in,
I do not wear a ski suit to the beach,
And I do not wear my hair down or wear any jewelry when working the nursery.  My hair has been pulled enough times, and I have had to rebead one to many necklaces for me to even think about wearing something different.

IMHO I would not leave my (imaginary) kids with someone like that because I don't think they are taking their job seriously.  I would also be worried about a lawsuit for the church or I if my child pulled on one of their piercings and caused serious damage, especially with facial jewelry. 

Chuffy

The fact that these girls appear to not have any deference for the employer or clients says volumes... much more than the appearance alone.

Exactly! Part of respecting a job and the people you're working for (both coworkers and employees) is being willing to alter your appearance to fit the job.

My female friends who are working in the public school system are not allowed any visible piercings during school hours other than earrings (and only one hole per ear, and no cartilage). It's written into their contract. I wonder why the daycare doesn't have similar sorts of guidelines?

I bet you that they probably do.. but nobody had any facial jewelry (except the girl with the nose ring) until after they were hired, therefore I don't think she really cared to mention it. Out of all the teenagers, I've been there the longest. I've had my tongue pierced for 3½ years now, but I took it out for my interview. I don't think you can really even see it if I talk normal. Then again, there is very few times I talk like an idiot with my mouth wide open. I just don't think the boss has a cow if it's tiny or hardly noticeable. (Like nose and tongue)

When you go piercing your lip, eyebrow, labret, ect. It's just right out there though and it's usually the first thing you notice. I don't think my boss was happy when she saw the eyebrow ring.. and tomorrow, when she sees the lip ring, I bet there will be something said.

I agree with a lot of these posts above me.  It's less about it being a church and more about it being unsafe and unprofessional.  When I do gymnastics, I have to wear tight fitting clothes and no jewelry.  When I go to work, I need to be business casual so that I am appropriately dressed but not so overdressed that I can't pull cable through a ceiling.  When I volunteer at the dog shelter I need my kennel boots and the shirt that indicates I'm a volunteer and am allowed to be in the kennels.  I don't think the day care workers need to conform to other people's opinions about piercings and religion, BUT they just don't need to be wearing piercings to ANY day care environment where babies grab and pull at anything that sparkles.  Or, what it an earing fell out and a child swallowed the sharp, pointy part?  Not cool.  This is a matter of common sense, not personal or religious expression.