Doggie Dining...what do you think?

Indeed labcrab. I got my dogs backpacks because in the spring and summer we will often spend the entire day out together and they need to be able to carry their own water dish and water (though I often make them carry my cell phone and keys and stuff too). Going to the park is a big part of the day, but we walk through several business districts to get to the park and sometimes mommy just needs to sit down and have an iced tea! And, well, sometimes that pair of shoes in the window looks mighty enticing... []

ORIGINAL: houndlove

Here's the thing--I never had any reason to take my dog anywhere when I lived in the country or the suburbs. Now I live in a city. When I walk my dogs, I walk them right past many of the stores I need to run errands in. I can tie them up outside, and I do sometimes, but it would be nice if I didn't have to do that all the time, or walk my dogs and then take them home and turn right around and walk the same route and go run my errands.

It's really quite nice to spend some quality time with your dog while sipping coffee at an outdoor cafe. It gets the dog out and socialized. It's really a double-bind for alot of dog owners. You're supposed to get your dogs socialized, but then you're not allowed to take them anywhere where other people are or into situations where things are a little different, to get them used to that kind of thing.

I agree with you, I have the same problem, but it is our choice to own dogs, we don't have to do it, the inconvenience should be on us, not on others, and people who don't want to be around animals should not be forced to.  My father avoids dogs at all costs because he has been attacked so many times on the sidewalk when he goes for a walk.  He has to carry a stick with him for safety and a lot of older men around here do that.  He shouldn't have to be afraid to enter a bank or hardware store.  Hes almost had a heart attack from being startled almost to death when he gets out of his car at the grocery store and the dog that he didn't see in the parked car next to him barks its head off at him.  I'm sure your dog wouldnt attack anyone and niether would mine but we do need to have respect for other people.  And since we cant count on people to only walk well mannered dogs past other people on the sidewalk, we certaintly can't on that in a bank or a hardware store.

But that sort of makes our dogs prisoners in their own homes. We can't leave them in cars lest they scare someone the next car over, we can't walk them on sidewalks lest we walk by someone who is scared. Where I walk my dogs, there are people around everywhere. I can't help that, I live in a city. My dogs are on 4 foot leashes and I do not let them approach anyone else when we're out, nor other dogs. Clearly the problem you have in your area is LOOSE dogs, not dogs being walked nicely on short leashes. No one would need a stick to fend off my dogs because my dogs aren't permitted to approach other people unless the other person invites it.

ORIGINAL: houndlove

But that sort of makes our dogs prisoners in their own homes. We can't leave them in cars lest they scare someone the next car over, we can't walk them on sidewalks lest we walk by someone who is scared. Where I walk my dogs, there are people around everywhere. I can't help that, I live in a city. My dogs are on 4 foot leashes and I do not let them approach anyone else when we're out, nor other dogs. Clearly the problem you have in your area is LOOSE dogs, not dogs being walked nicely on short leashes. No one would need a stick to fend off my dogs because my dogs aren't permitted to approach other people unless the other person invites it.

No, these are dogs on leashes.  Not everyone is as responsible as you are are.  I didn't say no one should be allowed to walk their dog.  I said dogs in hardware stores, banks, and resaurants is going a bit far.  It's not about walking past someone thats scared of dogs, its that my dad and many others are frequently ATTACKED by them when people walk them, so now yes, of course they want to avoid dogs and they shouldnt be worried about going into a store.  My dad loves my dog and isnt afraid of her or other nice dogs that he knows will NOT attack him.

Of course I'd want to bring Stanley wherever I go... but on the flip side, I'm deathly allergic to cats and can't be in the same room w/ them. If somebody brought his/her cat to outdoor dining facility, I most likely won't be able to dine there 'cause... I'd be plain miserable. In that case, I wouldn't think that's right. So... I'm kind of torn on this issue.

ORIGINAL: Lilea

No, these are dogs on leashes.  Not everyone is as responsible as you are are.  I didn't say no one should be allowed to walk their dog.  I said dogs in hardware stores, banks, and resaurants is going a bit far.

Lilea, whatever you do - do NOT move to NYC...   LOL  We've all sorts of undesirables here, and we all somehow manage to get along. 

ETA (cause I posted at the same time as Stella) -  people have the right to chose where they eat.  I don't know how many of you live in a place that still tolerates smoking, but it's sort of like that (IMO).  Those who simply cannot tolerate it, eat someplace that does not have a smoking section.  The idea is that the majority of people CAN tolerate a dog in proximity to them when they are seated outdoors - so the allowance of dogs would not be a problem for MOST people. 

People are walking dogs on leashes in a way in which others need sticks to fend them off?!?! Where do you live so I can make sure I never ever go there! That's insane and clearly your local animal control needs to start writing way more tickets.

Everything can be used or abused. Some people drive recklessly and like idiots and often they get into accidents with innocent people, but that doesn't mean no one should ever drive a car again. Punish those who can't handle the responsibility, not everyone else who is doing their best to live in harmony with their neighbors.

ORIGINAL: houndlove

People are walking dogs on leashes in a way in which others need sticks to fend them off?!?! Where do you live so I can make sure I never ever go there! That's insane and clearly your local animal control needs to start writing way more tickets.

Everything can be used or abused. Some people drive recklessly and like idiots and often they get into accidents with innocent people, but that doesn't mean no one should ever drive a car again. Punish those who can't handle the responsibility, not everyone else who is doing their best to live in harmony with their neighbors.

Thats the point, it cannot be properly enforced, at least not here which is obvious since people do need to carry sticks to fend off attacking dogs.  You can call animal control but what are they going to do?  You dont know the persons name or address whose dog just attacked you and they re gone by the time animal control comes around.

And labcrab, if NYC is a place where its acceptable for dogs being walked to attack people, thats not anyplace I would want to be.  I assume thats what you meant since that was the topic of my post which you responded to.  Uh, thats kind of silly to say EVERYONE in NYC gets along with each other.
Most restaurants (and a lot of bars) in most states are completely non-smoking now, BECAUSE it infringes on other peoples rights (and health).  And eople should not have to choose to not enter their bank because of a dog.  I know this thread was started about outside patios, but a lot of people brought up hardware stores, banks, and such and that is what I have been responding too. 

ORIGINAL: Cita

Kids drool, smell, poop in their pants, puke, get dirty, and are loud, but they're still allowed in places like patios, hardware stores, and even the movies. And kid behaviors aren't appetizing  to everyone either. IMO, if my dog is better behaved than other people's kids then it's silly to keep him out of public areas where he's not hurting anything.

OK, I'll make you a deal. If you allow kids to poop on lawns, I'll alllow dogs on patios.

I've only encountered one place with an outdoor eating area that wouldn't allow dogs. It was in North Carolina and they directed me to a restaurant around the corner that not only allowed dogs in the outdoor area but also brought them a bowl of water and a biscuit.
 
I used to travel up and down the east coast regularly and always looked for places to eat that had outdoor areas so the dogs could come too. It never dawned on me that dogs would not be allowed in an outside area.

ORIGINAL: Lilea

And labcrab, if NYC is a place where its acceptable for dogs being walked to attack people, thats not anyplace I would want to be.  I assume thats what you meant since that was the topic of my post which you responded to.  Uh, thats kind of silly to say EVERYONE in NYC gets along with each other.

 
 Wha?  *attack*??  what are you talking about?   I think I used the quote feature correctly, no?  I quoted, and responded to "I said dogs in hardware stores, banks, and resaurants is going a bit far."  For me, in my world it is not going too far - it's a necessity.  As I said - quite a different existence than the burbs.  I can honestly say, that in 15 years in NYC I have NEVER seen a dog attack a person.  In fact, I can't even remember the last time I saw a dog growl at a person.  As far as dogs and people co-existing - we really do get along here.  Come for a visit and I'll show you! 

ORIGINAL: labcrab

ORIGINAL: Lilea

No, these are dogs on leashes.  Not everyone is as responsible as you are are.  I didn't say no one should be allowed to walk their dog.  I said dogs in hardware stores, banks, and resaurants is going a bit far.

Lilea, whatever you do - do NOT move to NYC...   LOL  We've all sorts of undesirables here, and we all somehow manage to get along. 

ETA (cause I posted at the same time as Stella) -  people have the right to chose where they eat.  I don't know how many of you live in a place that still tolerates smoking, but it's sort of like that (IMO).  Those who simply cannot tolerate it, eat someplace that does not have a smoking section.  The idea is that the majority of people CAN tolerate a dog in proximity to them when they are seated outdoors - so the allowance of dogs would not be a problem for MOST people. 

You quoted me as saying "No, these are dogs on leashes, not everyone is as responsible as you are."
In that quote I was describing the dogs that attack people on sidewalks.  And you responded to that saying whatever you do dont move to nyc we have lots of undesirables here
I would like to note that I am NOT saying you are wrong, and lot of people have brought up good points on both sides.  I can totally see both points of view on this.  I just think we need consider everyone involved.

I agree with Christine and Cressida... when I lived in Boston I did a lot of walking and my dog came to a lot of places with me. Now that I live in Omaha I wouldn't drive my dog in the car to go to a patio restaurant! But when I was walking my dog through Boston in a heat wave it was great to stop and have an iced latte at Starbucks, not to mention a bowl of water for Russell. If I *didn't* bring him to the bank, right around the corner from my house, all the tellers would ask me why - they kept bags of doggie treats in their desks for him. Our favorite local deli had a photo of Russell as a puppy up on the wall of baby photos (I didn't bring him in the deli but they would come out to pet him.) To me this just makes sense in places where people are on foot a lot.

ORIGINAL: houndlove

But that sort of makes our dogs prisoners in their own homes. We can't leave them in cars lest they scare someone the next car over, we can't walk them on sidewalks lest we walk by someone who is scared. Where I walk my dogs, there are people around everywhere. I can't help that, I live in a city. My dogs are on 4 foot leashes and I do not let them approach anyone else when we're out, nor other dogs. .

Walking your dog in a public area is different than going shopping or dining with your dog. People who have issues with dogs have the option of crossing the street or simply hurrying past. Standing in line at a bank or having a meal requires time and has spacial contraints. I personally never take my dog into any kind of commerial establishment, even those that allow dogs. (vet excluded) My dog is anything but a prision in his home. We walk through very busy commerial areas all the time. We are out and about everyday. The thing is, when I have my dog with me, where ever I am, he has my total attention. He is my job! I'm not going to stop to eat or buy shoes. If I need to run errands I do it without the dog. As much as I LOVE my dog and would love to spend 24/7 with him, I know not everyone shares my affection. I would never knowingly want to make someone uncomfortable for my convenience or seflish pleasure.

I take my dogs into all sorts of commercial establishments. They go to coffee houses, banks, convenience store, hardware stores, resturants, clothing stores, gift stores, etc etc. Lots of store owners have their own dogs IN the stores, here. I guess it's just a relaxed culture. Of course, if someone is uncomfortable, I will take my dogs and leave. I don't think it's my dogs' right above a person's right to be in a public place, but there's nothing wrong with it, as long as they're behaving appropriately.