ear cropping and tail docking questions

so my question is...what are the characteristics in the your breed that make these alterations neccesary?

I own a field bred English Cocker. Traditionally their tails were docked, and still are, longer than show Eng. Cockers or American Cockers. This, I read, was to exaggerate the 'wobbling' - the tail was like a "flag" to a hunter - to see where the dog is working in the filed. Dogs with docked tails tend to exaggerate tale wagging, which is helpful at work in a field.

Dogs with docked tales can't make quick turns as fast as dogs with longer tales - dogs need tales to maneuver. So, if you compare a GS or a Husky, with wolf-like tails taking sharp turns and my dog - my dog will loose the raise. He would do a better job, however than a Husky running quickly curving around with his nose down sniffing out birds.

I appreciate the tradition of docking, but I would have liked my dog with his tail undocked.

I have an American Cocker with a docked tail. A lot of sporting dogs traditionally have docked tails to prevent injuries during hunting... as has been mentioned, cropped ears or docked tails become part of the breed standard. IMO it's hard to judge a person for having a cropped/docked dog... how can you judge the owner when the cropping/docking was done before the pup ever left the breeders, and how can you judge the breeder who is making a good faith effort to produce dogs that conform to and enhance the breed standard? I support efforts to get away from cropping and docking in some breeds, but I think that's one of those things that has to be done from the top down (ie, changing the AKC standards first) and not vice versa.

ORIGINAL: TinaK

Dogs with docked tales can't make quick turns as fast as dogs with longer tales - dogs need tales to maneuver. So, if you compare a GS or a Husky, with wolf-like tails taking sharp turns and my dog - my dog will loose the raise. He would do a better job, however than a Husky running quickly curving around with his nose down sniffing out birds.

 
I would venture to say that Aussies can out-cut & out-turn a GSD or Husky.  I could be wrong though.

Dogs with docked tales can't make quick turns as fast as dogs with longer tales
 
What's important in manuvering is that the tail not get in the way. Other breeds like PWCorgi's, JRT's, Boxer's and Aussie's don't seem particularly less agile due to their lack of tails.
 
Bevo....I do agree with you.
 

Boston Terriers had their ears cropped to accentuate the squareness of the head as evidenced by the dog on the left...

 
While a lot of breeds are cropped at a young age, Boston Terriers are usually not cropped until the dog is mature to see how the head turns out. Cropping isn't as popular now and the majority of time, the only dogs cropped are those who are being shown in specials. While cropping is allowed in the breed, docking is a disqualification.

ORIGINAL: sheprano

A lot of breeds had ears and tails docked for a specific purpose when the breed was being used for its original purpose, ie hunting, fighting,. Now it is continued to preserve the breed standard. Sure it may seem selfish to some people but people tend to take extreme pride in their favored breeds and a lot of the times that includes sticking with the breed standard. Rory is a APBT, she should ahve her ears cropped however it is no longer neccessary in dog shows. I chose to not dock her ears to a gentler appearance and it has worked!

I am SOOOO glad that no one ever cropped Ella's ears. I couldn't imagine her without her bat ears!
I can detect where she is in a dark room by seeing the pinks of her big ol' bat ears (she's a black/dark brown pit)!

I might be wrong, but I think with the Dobie, it was more scaring people into paying their taxes. I think some of the war-mastiff type dogs were cropped and docked so that the people they were attacking could not grab onto the ears or tail as the dog attacked, maybe that's what you were thinking of, Cassie? Dobie tails are fun, they're prone to happy tail, which is a condition where the dog whacks its tail against things and eventually the tip will break open and bleed. It's just because of the long, whiplike tail with very little fur covering. As far as Pit Bulls go, I've heard it's best to leave the ears natural for fighting, because if their opponent gets a hold on them, it is better for them to grab an ear than the neck. I've never seen it, of course, but if the other dog got ahold of an ear, the dog that's being held should have an opening for the neck. I might be completely wrong, but it makes sense to me. That, and if you look at pictures of most of the old time fighting dogs, they've got natural ears.

ORIGINAL: fuzzdomestic

I might be wrong, but I think with the Dobie, it was more scaring people into paying their taxes.  I think some of the war-mastiff type dogs were cropped and docked so that the people they were attacking could not grab onto the ears or tail as the dog attacked, maybe that's what you were thinking of, Cassie?  Dobie tails are fun, they're prone to happy tail, which is a condition where the dog whacks its tail against things and eventually the tip will break open and bleed.  It's just because of the long, whiplike tail with very little fur covering.  As far as Pit Bulls go, I've heard it's best to leave the ears natural for fighting, because if their opponent gets a hold on them, it is better for them to grab an ear than the neck.  I've never seen it, of course, but if the other dog got ahold of an ear, the dog that's being held should have an opening for the neck.  I might be completely wrong, but it makes sense to me.  That, and if you look at pictures of most of the old time fighting dogs, they've got natural ears. 

 
Yes Fuzz that is what I meant, thanks[] 

Tootsie, had her tail docked at the age of four days. The breeder tied a rubberband around it and it fell off within a week. I have seen this done with many corgi litters and the pups show no sign of discomfort. Too my knowledge corgis were docked so the farmers didn't pay taxes. A docked dog = working dog. I don't think that Tootsie can't move like a GSD or Husky because of her lack of tail, she can cut corners pretty quick.

Actually, in corgis, a good portion of them were natural bobtails. When the two corgi breeds were first recognized (initially as varieties of the same breed), whether or not a pup was born with a tail determined which it was registered as. Rozavel Red Dragon was the only dog to sire champions in both breeds before they were split apart again. (I think I'm remembering that name correctly, I don't have my copy of the book it's from in front of me - it's "The New Complete Pembroke Welsh Corgi"). In the early days of breed recognition, brindle cardis were surpassingly rare and blue merle was presumed loss- it wasn't rediscovered till the 40s in the registered stock.) Hopefully, the docking ban will encourage more Pem breeders to breed towards a consistant natural bobtail. (Unfortunately, looking at show photos, it looks like most of them are striving for a Cardigan-ish tail, which is changing the whole outline and balance of the Pem.)

I was told, and have no real knowledge of truth or validity, that similar happened with Old English Sheepdogs - that some lines are born with "docked" tails - anyone know if that's true?
 
My understanding of Dobes has been a combination of what's been responded above.  Ear/tail for less to grab onto should an attacker attempt (since they were bred as personal protection dogs); also for alert/intimidating appearance; docked tails = working dogs and therefore not taxed as pet animals.  Tails remain somewhat more acceptable because they are done as neonates (believed the pain receptors/memory is lessened) and the whip-like structure and propensity for injury is sometimes sited as a reason to do it.  Ears remain mostly for cosmetic reasons, although there is some anecdotal discussion of avoiding ear infections.  I've had Dobes both completely natural and cropped/docked.  My current pup came to me from rescue docked.  I chose to commit to her ear cropping, and it was for cosmetic reasons mostly. 
 
I've also had Cocker Spaniels docked by a veterinarian. 

According to the AKC Gazette 1 in 200 dogs suffer "phantom tail". This is the same as a human amputee suffering a pain in a limb that has been removed. (I don't have any idea how they figured this out.
 
I have found that many poodle owners don't have any idea that their dog's tail was docked.
 
Since so many countries have already outlawed docking my guess is that it's just a matter of time before the practice dies out completely.
 
I love the way the poodle tails look without being docked.
 

Sometimes there's a connection with natural bob tails and spinal issues...something to watch for with any breed working towards that end.

ORIGINAL: shanmcd

....and very few dogs here are purebreed at all. and the only cropped dogs here are the pitties, but i already know the answer to the "WHY?" with those (dog fighting)[:'(][:@][]

 
Not all cropped pitties are used for fighting. In fact, it is a teeny tiny percent of fighting pits that are cropped. The true fighters are almost always natural eared.
 
For the thugs they crop because it makes the dog look tough, for people like me we would crop because we like the look of a cropped pittie. I adore the look of a short crop, and that big blockie pitbull head with those gorgeous ears and that wrinkle in the forehead when they are alert...that just melts my heart. 

ORIGINAL: LizzieCollie

ORIGINAL: shanmcd

....and very few dogs here are purebreed at all. and the only cropped dogs here are the pitties, but i already know the answer to the "WHY?" with those (dog fighting)[:'(][:@][]

Not all cropped pitties are used for fighting. In fact, it is a teeny tiny percent of fighting pits that are cropped. The true fighters are almost always natural eared.

For the thugs they crop because it makes the dog look tough, for people like me we would crop because we like the look of a cropped pittie. I adore the look of a short crop, and that big blockie pitbull head with those gorgeous ears and that wrinkle in the forehead when they are alert...that just melts my heart. 

Although I'm not a big fan of the look of cropped ears on pits (just a personal preference) I would like to agree with LizzieCollie.  Just because a pit has cropped ears DOES NOT mean that it is a fighting dog.  Dogfighters are divided on whether it is better to crop a dog's ears or not.  There was a large dog fighting ring busted in this region not too long ago and all of the dogs in the pics I saw had natural ears.

I have a Llewellin Setter and an English Pointer (bred to be hunting dogs in the field).  Both of these breeds have never been docked or cropped and are widely used for bird hunting in the field.  Many hunters will shorten the hair on a setter's tail and britches so that it doesn't get tangled in the brush, but the tail is carried straight up when the dog points and considered a rather stylish flag. 
 
The German Shorthaired Pointer does have a docked tail.  The big hunting difference between the GSP and the EP is that the GSP is a medium range dog that retreives and will go into the water.  I don't think that the difference in hunting terraines is large enough to warrant a docked tail.  I think that the tail docking is due to the preference of the founding breeders.