Is it really that wrong to eat dogs and cats?

ORIGINAL: loveukaykay

Ill bring the beer...

I'm bringing the peanuts and strawberry daiquiris.

really not that many serous responses to a serious question. so i'll give it a shot:

FOR ME, i justify not eating dogs and cats but eating cows with the following argument: cows are bread for food. so their "purpose" is to be eaten. as for cat's and dogs, they are bread to be companions to us, so it is not ok to eat them.

another aspect would be that dogs are usually beaten to death. this is supposed to make the meat taste better due to the adrenalin or something...

in general i just think people (especially dog people) have a special bond with their dogs and cats. so we shouldnt eat them....

i think it is way to simple to be saying and animal is an animal, therefore it's okay to eat it.. but living in china, i try not to judge people that DO eat dog (and it's not like they eat it on a regular basis.) especially if they dont have dogs and dont have a bond with dogs. it is hard for me to understand when a dog owner eats dog meat though... no offence..

ORIGINAL: Doggy_style

A lot of people get on other places in the world for eating these animals.  Is there any difference between that and us eating cows?

What we eat as meat and what we keep as pet is arbitrary, purely a cultural thing. We eat cows (unless you're vegetarian) and keep dogs and cats as pets. Somewhere else things are different. I wager what people are willing to eat is closely associated with availibity of food in general. If you're a nation that finds food scare you'd pretty much make a meal out of anything I think.  For instance, on a non-pet note, slaves and serfs, and otherwise pressed (econominc, for example) got what was left from slaughter after the master - so people with that cultural inheritance have cuisine like chitterlings, black pudding, scrapple, etc.

Paula

I know about other cultures. I could care less if another country considers eating dog a good thing. I don't and that makes me provincial. (I know that's a big word for you and you will have to look it up. Sorry about your luck.)
 
I think you're just looking to create acrimony with the name-calling being a sure sign. You only look big behind that keyboard.
 

ok...i'll bite.  we raise dogs, cats and horses as companion animals here, so the thought of eating something that we have taught to trust us seems ludicrist.  as far as the cows go...there are places that consider them sacred and don't eat them. 

so is it ok to eat dogs, cats and horses...not in my society.
 
gotta love this type of forum where they actually can track isp addresses  

I have never seen a search & rescue cow, a therapy cow or a guide cow for the blind. Our bond with certain animals is different than with others. Dogs and cats are bred as companions and assistants.
 
Eating carnivores is a bit worse than herbivores.
 
The method of death is usually far more brutal than we allow for cattle. I certainly support humane confinement and death for all animals.
 
I personally would have less of a problem (but still a serious problem) with a culture that raised dogs for food on a family farm where they were given space to exercise, access to their own kind, shelter, ability to eliminate in an area away from their sleeping and eating areas, etc, and a humane death than I currently have with our uppy mills. Puppy mill dogs and especially the breeder dogs have a horrible existence and all too frequently wind up terrified in a pound then killed--and there are some places where that death is still not done under humane conditions.
 
The cattle my brother raises have far, far, better lives.

Not everyone will like my opinion, but here it is:
 
I have pet chickens. I also have chickens that I eat. I can love my pet chickens just as much as my pet rats or my dogs, but I can also distance myself from the others because I know that soon, I'm going to butcher them and stick them in the freezer. Alot of people here make the argument that "well, cows/pigs/chickens are bred for it. That's what they're here for." Well, what if they started breeding dogs specifically for meat in those countries? Would it then be okay in your mind to eat them? Honestly, I don't believe humans have the right to assign a purpose to a life, and then judge the value of that life based on those assigned purposes. An animal is an animal. They all think, feel, love, and suffer equally. A chicken who is brutally slaughtered feels just as much pain and sorrow and anguish as a dog- EVEN betrayal- my chickens trust me. These chickens have known me since they were a day old. I feed them every day, talk to them, spend time with them, they sit on my lap and we preen each other. When it's time to slaughter one, it trusts me just as much as my dogs do, and feels just as much betrayal as a dog would- so using the "dogs trust us" argument doesn't work either.
 
We have a tendency to consider animals that we eat on a regular basis to be stupid, dirty, and otherwise not "worth" the title of "companion." I know from first hand experience that chickens, cows, and pigs are NOT less intelligent than dogs. All have just as complex social heirarchies. All form bonds with other members of their own species. All of them do intelligent things on a daily basis that easily rivals, if not surpasses, the intelligence we atribute to dogs. If I have a pet cow (and I know of many people that do) or goat, or pig, can I then be offended that other people choose to eat those animals? Alot of people will say "No, because those animals are raised primarily for food"...but that goes back to my earlier argument.
 
Then there's the argument that "well, the dogs are killed in a really brutal manner." Yes, they are. I agree. But, have any of you ever seen an American factory farm? What those animals go through is just as bad (in my opinion, worse) that what dogs go through in asian countries. It's really hard for someone to complain about the brutality of the killing of dogs in China, while they themselves are eating the flesh of an animal that was raised in filth, darkness, and confinement, and then brutally killed and probably skinned alive. That's why I raise my own chickens, and hopefully one day, my own cows and pigs- so that I can have meat from animals who weren't tortured throughout life and killed brutally.
 
I totally understand being shocked and apalled by the way dogs are raised and killed in China and Korea. But please, do a search for descriptions and videos from American factory farms- what you'll see there is just as horrific. Why is it okay for cows and pigs and chickens to suffer, but not dogs? Would any of you be able to look into the eyes of a sweet, trusting cow that is hanging from a slaughterhouse ceiling by a chain, bleeding to death, and being skinned alive, that you're not worried about their suffering, that it isn't as much as a dog's, because some human somewhere decided that that cow's purpose in life was to feed some overweight Americans?
 
Knowing what I know, and the experiences I've had, with livestock...I just can't bring myself to say that their lives are worth less than a dog's. I love my dogs. I love what dogs symbolize as a species. But I simply can't bring myself to believe some arbitrary rules about one life being worth more than another. All lives have equal value. A cow suffers just as much as a dog.
 
All of that said, I personally couldn't eat dog. That's why I'm fine with people being grossed out by dog meat- it's a cultural thing. In America, we don't eat dogs. We're raised to think that's gross and weird. But for me, I can't see being angry at another country for cruelly killing dogs when we cruelly kill BILLIONS of other animals here every year for our own consumption. Does that mean these things shouldn't change? No, but I think that we should start here- we need to change the way WE raise and kill animals, before we start pointing fingers and being apalled at what other countries do. Otherwise, we're just hypocrites. Why should they listen to us if we don't even take our OWN advice?

I have to agree with Brittany.
 
I'm a vegetarian because I'd like to try to avoid eating any animal to the greatest degree that I'm able. But if you're going to eat animals, be honest about what's going on with them. In societies where dogs are eaten, the dogs are raised and bred as food. It's not like you've got Fluffy the family pet and then one day Fluffy is dinner.  What is the difference between that and pigs that are bred and raised to be food?
 
Cows and pigs are highly social, intelligent animals. Chickens also have complex social structures and, while not always the brightest bulbs on the string, are trainable and have individual personalities. If you're not okay with eating a creature who is very similar to a dog, I'd suggest you rethink your diet. If you are okay with saying that this animal is not food because I personally think it's cute, and that animal is food because I don't personally have a chance to engage with it, that's fine too. But don't fool yourself. It is purely a cultural and not a biological difference.

Like I said; what we choose to keep as pets and what we choose to eat is purely arbitrary and cultural. Cows don't like life less than dogs but I eat cows and keep dogs.

Paula

I haven't ever fooled myself about the how's and why's of eating beef or pork, wild game....I am quite familar with any and all methods used. I am okay with it, given what I have seen on various nature programming...it's not the worst way to go out.

I don't eat pork, dog, cat, or horse because I've worked with all these species on a similar level - I've +R trained and shaped pigs, my dogs, and one of my mom's horses and I've learned that all of these species have similar levels of cognition, etc. and I know some as individuals, thus I cannot justify eating any of their kind.  I eat beef, chicken, and fish because I don't know any of these animals as individuals.  Sounds kinda strange, but that's how it works for me.
 
As an aside, I'm an Animal Science major and I've visited a number of confinement farms - they aren't all horrid like PETA infers, and by far the majority I have seen are decent given the confinement system use.  I have seen and heard about the farmers who truly do care about the animals they raise and doubt that they would intentionally abuse an animal in their care; this is not to say this method is fine and perfect the way it is for the animals, but it is not the horrid h*llhole that many people think animals raised for food suffer in.  I'm all for more regulations on the slaughter and raising of animals, and that's one of the reasons I buy cage free eggs, and organic products, even on my college student budget.  I buy very little meat (because raw meat grosses me out to be honest), so that frees up $ for supporting the type of agriculture I believe in.

hmmm, you guys made a good point. and actually i think you're right.
what i meant earlier when i said that cows are bread for food was something else though. i meant that they were domesticised (forgive me, i'm not a native speaker) for that purpose. at least that's what i think. if i am wrong, then please let me know. but i think you made a good point, ratsicles, saying we have no right to assign a purpose to life. but don't you think that is what you are doing with your chickens? i'm not trying to offend you here, and i don't judge you at all. just a question..
 
i also know what goes on factory farms. it IS a shame.
but what irks me about beating a dog to death -aside from the fact that i have dogs and just FEEL it's wrong- is that it doesn't even serve a real purpose... oh well, i guess it does, but not to justify a beating. i guess i really am being subjective on this. i can't help it.
 
and yes, houndlove. in my case you are 100% right. i really don't have a problem eating an animal i have never engaged with (i'm talking about the individual animal here, i HAVE seen cows, chickens pigs, etc.), but once i have, it makes it harder. i don't know if i'd call myself a hypocrit. i'm just human, i guess.
 
hmm, i guess you will all judge me now. oh well....

ORIGINAL: janetmichel3009
 
what i meant earlier when i said that cows are bread for food was something else though. i meant that they were domesticised (forgive me, i'm not a native speaker) for that purpose. at least that's what i think. if i am wrong, then please let me know. but i think you made a good point, ratsicles, saying we have no right to assign a purpose to life. but don't you think that is what you are doing with your chickens? i'm not trying to offend you here, and i don't judge you at all. just a question..

 
No, you're right, cows WERE domesticated for the purpose of being food. My point was that regardless of whether they were domesticated for that purpose, or are now being bred for that purpose, it still doesn't mean that they feel any less, or that it's more okay to eat them than it is to eat a dog. Because again, saying something was bred for a certain purpose is just humans assigning meaning or value to a life. And in my opinion, all lives are the same. The cow that has been domesticated for thousands of years, and was born with the intent that it would go to slaughter, feels just as much as any other animal. My point was that, to me, saying something was bred for a certain purpose does not undermine what the animal feels when it is killed.
 
As for my assigning a purpose to my chicken's lives...well I don't think that I do that, but maybe I do. I really don't see myself as assigning a purpose to their lives. With my chickens, I did get them with the intent of eating most of them. Some I made friends with and decided not to. Others I decided to eat for one reason or another, so I simply forced myself to become less emotionally attached to those. To me though, saying "I am going to eat this chicken" is not assigning a purpose to it's life. I am not so arrogant as to assume that I could possibly fathom another being's reason for existance. That chicken was born to be a chicken- to sleep, cluck, run, play, eat bugs, and mate. Just because it ends it's life as my dinner doesn't mean that that was it's entire reason for existance. To me, that's a pretty arrogant way of looking at things- IMO, the chicken exists for it's own reasons, none of which are likely to have anything to do with me. If you were to die of cancer at the age of 70, would you then say that your entire purpose in life was to get cancer? Probably not. Likewise, I don't think it's fair to assume that any animals purpose in life is determined by how and when it dies...or that it's purpose has anything to do with anything human related at all.
 
But, that's just the way I look at things. Not everyone will agree. [] 
 

  i also know what goes on factory farms. it IS a shame.
but what irks me about beating a dog to death -aside from the fact that i have dogs and just FEEL it's wrong- is that it doesn't even serve a real purpose... oh well, i guess it does, but not to justify a beating. i guess i really am being subjective on this. i can't help it.

 
No, I agree with you completely. I'm not by any means saying that I think it's okay for them to torture those dogs the way they do. I was just saying that in slaughterhouses in America, we cause JUST as much pain and anguish to the animals there...so being apalled at the beating of dogs in China but NOT being apalled by the way U.S. slaughterhouses work just doesn't make sense to me. I was making a point that before we (by "we" I mean Americans...I realize you're not from the US. []) jump on another country for their slaughtering practices, we need to take a long, hard look at the ones here in America.

hmm, i guess you will all judge me now. oh well....

 
Not at all. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. []
 

I'm all for more regulations on the slaughter and raising of animals, and that's one of the reasons I buy cage free eggs, and organic products, even on my college student budget.  I buy very little meat (because raw meat grosses me out to be honest), so that frees up $ for supporting the type of agriculture I believe in.

 
I do the same. Most of the meat and eggs I eat come from my own chickens. The rest I buy organic, preferrably from small, local farms. That's why I have chickens in the first place, and hope to have a small farm of my own in the next couple of years- I don't want to do anything to support the type of farming I disagree with.

I don't think it's fair to assume that any animals purpose in life is determined by how and when it dies...or that it's purpose has anything to do with anything human related at all
 
I do...I think a very integral part of any prey species life...is it's death. It does other things, and serves other purposes. But to Nature a very important part of it's life...is that it can be eaten by the creatures Nature's made capable of capturing and killing the prey animal in question.
 
Whether that predator is a human or a cougar...the end for the animal is the same, it's bloody, it's terrifying, and it's far from "peaceful"...and it's purpose...not it's sole purpose...but an important and real one nonethless...was fulfilled.
 
Every creature is nature is multipurpose. I for one have no issue with the fact that part of my purpose is predatory...if I wander into the wilderness and do stupid things...then part of my purpose is to be prey myself.

No, you're right, cows WERE domesticated for the purpose of being food. My point was that regardless of whether they were domesticated for that purpose, or are now being bred for that purpose, it still doesn't mean that they feel any less, or that it's more okay to eat them than it is to eat a dog. Because again, saying something was bred for a certain purpose is just humans assigning meaning or value to a life. And in my opinion, all lives are the same. The cow that has been domesticated for thousands of years, and was born with the intent that it would go to slaughter, feels just as much as any other animal. My point was that, to me, saying something was bred for a certain purpose does not undermine what the animal feels when it is killed.

 
Ratsicles, this is a very intelligent, thoughtful statement. I think I have been one to say "well, that's what they're bred for." You have made me think about this and may have changed my perspective. As I get older, I try to learn one new thing a day or see a new attitude/perspective. Thanks. This is a good thread.
 
Also, I'm envious of you owning chickens. I'd love to own chickens and ducks. Unfortunately, don't have a lot of land.