Scary Situation, Quick Decision, Poor Shippo!

Not saying that I would do anything different... but picking dogs up seems to escalate any situation like this.

There are situations I've had where hoisting Shadow off the ground won't help, like the time two dogs came after us, circling and in pack hunting formation. I think they were Pekinese but they might have been Shih Tzus. The braver one charged and Shadow shook the crap out of him and there was nothing I could do. Shadow finally let go to get a better grab, though he had not damaged the dog, as it later turned out. When he let go, both dogs skedaddled back to their yard and we went on home. I took pictures of how they got out, took pics at a later time of them running loose, all in case I had to go to court.
 
And your advise is worth listening to and I've tried all of it and it simply doesn't work when the other dog is dead set on getting into a fight. And Shadow is still at a disadvantage, being in harness and leash. To make it a fair fight, I would have to release him, which makes me no better than the lousy owner and then, he might run off. I have seen him top 30 mph or better and I won't be able to catch him. And then I incur liability by releasing him. It's a no win situation and I took a browbeating here the first time I mentioned that problem. It wasn't just "try this, instead" it was, "you are wrong and let me count the ways."
 

I've done much the same thing twice when I've had an aggressive dog charging Penny. The first came out of nowhere and I used the leash to jerk her out of the path of a GSD. The GSD smacked into a tree right behind us in a cartoonesque moment, giving us a chance to get out of her territory quicksmart. The second time was the dog that lived next door. He'd attacked Penny before and he was insane. When I saw him bearing down on us one day, Penny froze and I lifted her bodily out of his path using the lead. All four feet off the ground. That was the last day I used a choke chain, but I shudder to think what would have happened if I hadn't got her out of that dog's path. The owner was right behind him and grabbed him before he could recover from missing his mark. I think in some situations, it's perfectly acceptable to do something kinda horrible to prevent something even more horrible from happening. You just don't know with some dogs, but an angry charge is not something I will just hope for the best on.

I have done the same with Tootsie and I did feel bad, but I wouldn't hesitate to do it again. No ones going to get my girl.

What can you do, in that secs when all of this happening? Without panicy etc
 
I remember a GSD runny towards my dogs, when the owner inisist the dog that it wanted to play, not when the hair is up from his back it doesn't.
 
I literally bend down, pointing my finger in the dog's face & the dog actually crowdly in front of me. Which it worked greatly
 
I have heard ppl take the back legs & swing the dog in circles, I dunno how you do that with fighting dogs?  

If you do not pick up a tiny poodle as a Rott. kills her that would be quite cruel. No choice. A tiny poodle doesn't fight. She was almost dead quickly from all of the bites and shaking done by that Rott.

I will continue to promote the use of a cane or other implement.  Dogs respond to visual cues.  A swinging cane has the advantage of protecting both of you.  In this world, defensive driving has become common place.  You can even take classes (some times not voluntarily but that is not the point).  Why not practice self defense type behaviors?  Women take those type of classes all the time.
 
Why not be pro-active?  Confidence, a large and intimidating posture and swining cane will deter just about any "regular" maniac.  There are alternatives; why not consider them?
 
I just get this mental picture of a really fast, high prey drive dog, viewing a small hairy beastie as a booda bone on a string.  Scares me more.  As much as I love my dog, picking them up deprives me of manuverability and the option of using or finding a weapon to use against the attacking dog.
 
OK I will shut up now....

MRV, I see what you are saying. It's not that the impulse to pick up the dog is wrong, it's that even though the intentions are noble, it can make a situation worse than it might have otherwise been.

I think it's good to talk about that aspect of this, because these situations are scary and the right thing to do is not always evident. I, for one, was badly bitten because I broke up a dogfight with my hands. Stupid, yes, and it made the situation much worse than it otherwise would have been. While I certainly don't blame myself, I do think it's my job as a good leader to my dog to try not to do that again if a similar situation arises.

Why not be pro-active? Confidence, a large and intimidating posture and swining cane will deter just about any "regular" maniac. There are alternatives; why not consider them?

 
I completely agree.  I think we've all done things we looked back on realizing it probably wasn't the best reaction.  I handled the fights between my 2 dogs horribly wrong the first few times and probably made things worse.  It wasn't until I got some good advice and thought the sceanarios thru that I was able to react better the next time.  I'd rather have a plan than try to figure it out in a split second.  It doesn't mean I won't still make a mistake, but being prepared makes me feel much more confident.

The cane was not an option. I did not have a cane, I do not carry a cane, and I do not see how it would cause less of a lawsuit than a deterrent spray. I am sitting here picturing me swinging a large stick at somebody else's dog while they watch. In a city of over-protective dog owners. I do not think it would go over well.

I also do not see how "flight or fight" is still an option to the dog in danger on the ground when it is on a leash. It can't perform "flight" on a leash, and I'm not going to let go of the leash so he can. We live close to a busy street.

I already said I did not plan on EVER doing that again anyway, and I said I plan on going out and buying a deterrent (I even asked peoples' opinions on which one is best, but I think maybe everyone but one person was too busy telling me how I should never pick my dog up to notice the question). I feel like I am being chastised for trying to potentially save my dog's life, when I had mere seconds to react, had nothing to use to deter the dog in the first place, and at that exact moment was picturing my puppy being ripped to pieces.

I feel like I should just keep my experiences to myself. >-.-<

I am sorry the original apology was not adequate.

Whoa, I don't see anyone chastizing anyone here.

What is this forum for if not to share different points of view about a situation or subject? I think it's entirely possible to discuss what the situation looks like from the point of view of the drivey dog without saying that you are bad or wrong.

I feel like I should just keep my experiences to myself. >-.-<

 
I'm confused by this statement too.  I don't think anyone has chastised you (or anyone).  Most of us have said we'd probably have done the same thing.  I can't lift my big dogs up, but if I could and were faced with what you were, I know I'd have done the exact same thing.  The discussion has been about ways to maybe handle it differently, and the potential upside/downside to options.  I really wouldn't take it as a personal attack.  You started the thread with a great post and it's generated some good discussions.

I'm sorry, I guess I'm just frustrated because it was something I didn't want to do, but I absolutely had to, and I feel bad about it, and it seemed that people kept saying I shouldn't have done it because it can make things worse. But in my situation, had he been left on the ground and those dogs had been aggressive, he would have been attacked because I had nothing at all to deter them. >-.-< And yet I still feel bad about it, because I've never ever had to do that before with any dog, and I usually come prepared with something in my pocket.

As I said before, you did what you needed to do. It's easy to armchair quarterback until a person finds themselves in your shoes. I would carry a 4 foot piece of 1/2 " pipe, primarily to act as a barricade against another dog as, even in the middle of a fight, I don't want to hit a dog, though I will if I have to (I haven't, yet). Later, I would carry a pooper scooper. One time, a Blue Heeler named Oreo would come after us in defense of his acre of the town. Once I waved that scooper, with a fresh load in it, at him. He sniffed it and after that, he was friendly with Shadow. Now, he "knew" him.
 
Now, I am considering DirectStop if I can find it. And I always carry my cell phone. So, theoretically, I could spray the dog and then call the police. Or, spray the dog and then go on, if the owners are not visible. They can then wonder how their dog got sick and then maybe, possibly, not let them loose again.