A WHITE Dalmatian?

There are MANY breeds that end up with occasional "non-standard" colors - especially whites. Any many times, the whites do suffer from vision and hearing problems.

Usually, there is a reason that these colors are not considered "standard" or acceptible. Unfortunately, odd coat colors - even though not show ring accepted - can become trendy. The Blue coat color is an example. Blue is associated with genetic problems, but people want those "rare" dogs.

This is a good site for more info:
[linkhttp://skyway.usask.ca/~schmutz/dogconditions.html]Conditions Associated with Coat Color[/link]

I just had to put in my two cents about the comment you made. Deaf dalmatians make wonderful pets and should not be shunned because they are deaf. I personally own a deaf Dal and she is 100x more obedienent than my other Dalmatian and every single person who meets her wants to take her home because of how sweet and well behaved she is.
 
I can tell you this pup was lucky, most deaf dalmatians are euthanized when the breeders realize they are in fact deaf (usually 6-8 weeks). They say the more white a dal has on it the more likely it is to be deaf. I personally think that is an "old wives tale". Actually I take it back, this dog is not lucky, it went to Dr. Strain,who is *the person* who encourages the killing of deaf dalmatians. So I wonder how this dog is getting treated?
 
You can see this girl's nose is black, you can see some faint spots on her and she has black on her toes. Paisley dals is the place to learn about strange Dalmatian colors, or really anything Dalmatian related. I myself like my black & white ones and the liver & whites, but then again to me Dals are flashy enough without having some unique patterns. My best advice if you want to learn more about it would be to email Sue Paisley (her email should be on there or I can get it for you) and ask her about it. Or I can put you in touch with some very respectable breeders.

I know with Boston Terriers, the more white the dog is, particularly on the head, there's an increased chance of deafness.

I actually knew a white collie...I don't believe pure white is permissible in the breed.
 
Also, different countries allow different sizes and colors.
 
English shelties are a little daintier and allowed to be 1 in smaller. Also, they refer to American shelties as "box heads"...because our shelties do no have such delicate feature I guess. I find that funny..[]
 
I've known many deaf dalmations, a deaf white boxer, and a deaf/blind sheltie (she was blue merle)

ORIGINAL: SheltieGirl

I actually knew a white collie...I don't believe pure white is permissible in the breed.

Also, different countries allow different sizes and colors.

English shelties are a little daintier and allowed to be 1 in smaller. Also, they refer to American shelties as "box heads"...because our shelties do no have such delicate feature I guess. I find that funny..[]

I've known many deaf dalmations, a deaf white boxer, and a deaf/blind sheltie (she was blue merle)

Collies come in white as an accepted color (white body with colored head).  A solid white Collie is often a double merle (aka white merle) and THAT can be defective (blind and/or deaf).

And in case anyone reads the link above about colors, the "grey collie" they refer to is NOT the blue merle, but actually a lethal gene where the affected pup will not survive to adulthood.

Any time you breed for a "merle" coat you will get the occasional 'white' dog (nearly always deaf) -- and in Bostons, shelties, dals, boxers, and any other dog bred for a particular mixed color coat (no, Callie you will NOT get ornery about people's stupid insistence on desiring a rare coat color that WILL result in one of the litter being deaf).
 
The reason that dogs that are white (as non-standard colors, rather than a white dog like a great pyr or white eskie) are most often deaf (and sometimes deaf in ONE ear -- that happens often in dals as I'm sure mmthomason will back me on) is because just like puppies are born blind because the eyes aren't 'developed' enough TO see, so are ALL puppies born deaf!!
 
Yep -- ALL pups are born deaf.  AT 60-62 days gestation they just plain aren't developed enough TO hear.  "Hearing" is accomplished when the neural pathways in the ear         are completed and that happens just about the same time the eyes open.  But interestingly, it is COLOR pigment in the ears that helps these neural pathways to complete -- this is why "albino" or dogs lacking pigment are deaf.  Because there was never that color pigment IN the ears to help complete those neural pathways. (My information comes from [linkhttp://www.deafdogs.org]http://www.deafdogs.org[/link]).
 
Susan Cope Becker wrote 'Living with a Deaf Dog" about her Boston -- awesome book for newbies with deaf dogs. 
 
I would take a deaf dog again IN A HEARTBEAT.  In fact, when we took Billy, we *thought* he was deaf!  His ears had been infected for a long, long time and he showed all the classic signs that he had no hearing.  As it happened he was just shut down from being so sick, and turns out his hearing is fine.  But living with a deaf dog is just ... well, a wee bit different. 
 
Organizations like deafdogs.org have worked HARD to help the public be aware and to help the good-guy breeders who will be responsible and place the deaf progeny in good homes -- but in many breeds, many places, and many people (including, unfortunately the AKC) they still recommend that those pups born deaf because of a breeding to obtain that prized coat be euthanized.  *sigh*

Any time you breed for a "merle" coat you will get the occasional 'white' dog (nearly always deaf) -- and in Bostons, shelties, dals, boxers, and any other dog bred for a particular mixed color coat (no, Callie you will NOT get ornery about people's stupid insistence on desiring a rare coat color that WILL result in one of the litter being deaf).

Just to clarify, that would be any time you breed a merle to a merle you will get an occasional white dog.  A merle bred to a tricolor, for instance, does not produce white dogs nor the associated problems of double merles.  Blue merle is one of the original colors of the Collie, so wasn't created to please consumers.  []

sorry I was in a rush and you're 100% right Katie -- merle TO MERLE is what I shoulda typed.

When I had my dal (not deaf) there was a lady in our agility class with a deaf JRT.  They were a great team! It was amazing, they were able to do all the excerises the hearing dogs could do.  I believe she took her to agility trials as well.  You would never know she was deaf except her rounds were very quiet. []  Just proves how much body language influences your dogs behavior over verbal commands.

I thought dalmations were born white and thier spots show more later is this true and at what age do the spots start to show?
Blue heelers are not born blue they are white with patches and the blue flecking comes out a bit later can't remeber exaclty when was along time ago when I had blue heeler puppies
 
Danielle

You are correct; Dals are born without spots but they get them within a couple of weeks. This puppy is obviously a few months old and should have gotten it's spots by that time.

ORIGINAL: mmthomason

I just had to put in my two cents about the comment you made. Deaf dalmatians make wonderful pets and should not be shunned because they are deaf. I personally own a deaf Dal and she is 100x more obedienent than my other Dalmatian and every single person who meets her wants to take her home because of how sweet and well behaved she is.

I can tell you this pup was lucky, most deaf dalmatians are euthanized when the breeders realize they are in fact deaf (usually 6-8 weeks). They say the more white a dal has on it the more likely it is to be deaf. I personally think that is an "old wives tale". Actually I take it back, this dog is not lucky, it went to Dr. Strain,who is *the person* who encourages the killing of deaf dalmatians. So I wonder how this dog is getting treated?

You can see this girl's nose is black, you can see some faint spots on her and she has black on her toes. Paisley dals is the place to learn about strange Dalmatian colors, or really anything Dalmatian related. I myself like my black & white ones and the liver & whites, but then again to me Dals are flashy enough without having some unique patterns. My best advice if you want to learn more about it would be to email Sue Paisley (her email should be on there or I can get it for you) and ask her about it. Or I can put you in touch with some very respectable breeders.

 
Im not shunning or putting down deaf dogs in any way. I made my original comment because I didn#%92t want anyone to think I was interested in a 'rare' Dalmatian and just to point out the dog is deaf. If I purchased a deaf dog by mistake I would work with it, but I wouldn#%92t intentionally purchase a deaf dog because my lifestyle is not ideal for a special needs dog.
 
My cousin girlfriend owned a white APBT who was deaf and that dog was a terror because his owners did not understand him. Deaf dogs are not for everyone.
 
**Also on a side note: I was looking very carefully at the picture and it seems like that pup has a black ear? Maybe its just me
 

It is hard to see the ear on the other side. Again I can put you in touch with Sue who can probalby tell you which breeder this came from and can give you their information.

I doubt my deaf dog is a rarity, but I have had *no* problem whatsoever and she was only the 2nd dog I ever owned by myself. She is a wonderful dog and "listens" a million times better than my hearing dal does.

Perhaps your friends didnt understand APBTerriers. That is probably why the dog was difficult. I would assume if they got a hearing dog it would also be a terror. I can tell you, I love pit bulls, they are my favorite breed by far. I dont have one because I know at this point in my life, I shouldnt own one.

I always have the argument with people that deaf Dalmatians are not for everyone but neither are hearing dalmatians. I firmly believe if someone has done their homework on Dalmatians and understand how that breed is, they could handle a Dal even if it is deaf. If they dont know what they are getting themselves into, chances are both themselves and their dog are going to end up unhappy even if the dog hears perfectly. I had zero experience with deaf dogs and Marley is a spectacular dog.
 
I dont consider Marley "special needs", and I am sure Callie didnt ever consider any of her deaf dogs special needs. They are the exact same as a hearing dog except instead of teaching them to listen to what you say you teach them to watch you and you teach them hand signals.
 

Part of all the BEST of Muffin the Intrepid was his deafness.  (special needs -- let's see -- lifelong demodex dog, allergy dog in a BIG way, both ears removed from long term infections before we got him, cancer survivor of two surgeries and chemo -- special needs? ymmmmmmm maybe *grin*).
 
About a week after his second ear had been removed I stood in front of all 3 crates and signed "Dad & I are going out to dinner -- see ya later, bye!"
 
sign = dad + self +food+ seeya sign.
 
All of a sudden the Intrepid one's eyes got HUGE when I SAID the word 'supper' and signed 'food'.
 
CONNECTION MADE -- I almost heard his lips moved as he thot "DANG ... all these times they're "going out to supper" and THEY'RE AFTER FOOD???? Is there a freakin white box in my future???? HUH???????????????????????????????????"
 
It was hysterical -- he made so many 'connections' like that -- and at times he actually pitied the others we thot because HIS understanding was deeper -- communication with him became a total study.  He'd give you this look like "Yeah, but *I* know where you're really goin!!"
 
Oh wait -- maybe "special needs" is the part where when he didn't want to DO what you were signing to TELL him to do he'd look at the ceiling????  AVOID EYE CONTACT?? Oh yeah.  (smart a$$ dog!)
 
Pet therapy -- this dog would ZOOM to the child who was deaf and sit n front of them transfixed while they "talked" -- the child fascinated that the dog understood sign, and the dog fascinated that this kid knew his 'special signs' that he thot only existed with people who got Mom's "List of Signs Muffin Knows". 
 
I have a totally different definition of "special needs" than most people.  Deaf dogs often do better with other dogs -- that's not a hard and fast rule, but it tends to be the case.  Sometimes they follow -- sometimes they lead (Muffin was THE undisputed "guard dog" of Chez Kennedy -- because he could SMELL something coming way before any of the others could sense it with ALL their senses just because his nose was THAT astute).
 
MMT's sentence that dals themselves aren't for everyone is VERY true.  Some folks can't handle imperfection or any difference in how they do things or how consistent they may do things.  For me the term "special needs" isn't a bad one -- it's the part of PetFinder I go to first.  So I'm likely not a good one to ask, cos I'm gonna tell you that's what would make that dog valuable TO ME. 
 
I do teach ALL my dogs sign.  From the second they walk in the house.  Why?  Because we all get old.  We all lose our sight and hearing and still giving a dog the 'shhhh' gesture from 500 feet away and having thems top barking is a PLUS in my book.