Why can't people follow the rules

ORIGINAL: Satch

ORIGINAL: Romal

ORIGINAL: Satch

i certainly don't ignore it......i just don't always follow it.

You do understand that by not following it, no matter what your reason you are ignoring it?

no, actually i don't understand that. i am always aware of the law and thusly have my leashes handy in case 'the law' arrives. to me, that's not "ignoring" the law.

if that is ignoring the law to you, so be it.

 
OMG, must you be so myopic?  Why don't you talk to the family of a driver who got killed in Houston, trying to not hit a "well behaved off leash dog." The dog took off chasing after another,  ran across the street, the owner called the dog off, but he was so into the chase and according to the owner "out of hearing range" that he did not listen to the command,  the driver slammed on the brakes, he skidded, hit another driver and a light post; died on the spot of an injury to the head.
 
The owner of the dog apologized by saying: "I don't know what happened he usually obeys all the time." The man, had a 2 month pregnant wife and 2 older kids.
 
Now, if you ask me that person should go to jail.  I don't know what is going to happen, but she should.
 
I am sure this was a one in a million thing, but why take the chance if not with your so well behaved dog, then with another life?  What if that driver would have been someone you love?
 
 

ORIGINAL: olinda


OMG, must you be so myopic?  Why don't you talk to the family of a driver who got killed in Houston, trying to not hit a "well behaved off leash dog." The dog took off chasing after another,  ran across the street, the owner called the dog off, but he was so into the chase and according to the owner "out of hearing range" that he did not listen to the command,  the driver slammed on the brakes, he skidded, hit another driver and a light post; died on the spot of an injury to the head.

The owner of the dog apologized by saying: "I don't know what happened he usually obeys all the time." The man, had a 2 month pregnant wife and 2 older kids.

Now, if you ask me that person should go to jail.  I don't know what is going to happen, but she should.

I am sure this was a one in a million thing, but why take the chance if not with your so well behaved dog, then with another life?  What if that driver would have been someone you love?

i'm being shortsighted because i don't foresee my dog killing another person in a type of incident you yourself describe as having a one in a million chance of occuring.

.....okeydokey then.

taking that line of reasoning, you're being "myopic" every time you walk your dog because your dog could possibly pull it's leash out of your hand, run into the street, and cause a multi fatality ten-car pile-up. how dare you walk your dog!

Satch- Sorry about that. .  .didn't mean to imply that your dog was scaring anyone. I more meant someone like "me" would become scared. After that previous dog attack I do get very anxious when I see dogs off lead or owners who have their dogs leashed but obviously can't control them. Seems like the neighboring areas to my house that I am actually comfortable walking my dogs in these days are dwindling! I tend to go more often to a nearby lake where everyone leashes their dogs and also has good control. I think dog beaches and dog parks are great options for letting your dog "loose".

Olinda- what a HORRIBLE story. [sm=sad.gif]

ORIGINAL: Satch

ORIGINAL: olinda


OMG, must you be so myopic?  Why don't you talk to the family of a driver who got killed in Houston, trying to not hit a "well behaved off leash dog." The dog took off chasing after another,  ran across the street, the owner called the dog off, but he was so into the chase and according to the owner "out of hearing range" that he did not listen to the command,  the driver slammed on the brakes, he skidded, hit another driver and a light post; died on the spot of an injury to the head.

The owner of the dog apologized by saying: "I don't know what happened he usually obeys all the time." The man, had a 2 month pregnant wife and 2 older kids.

Now, if you ask me that person should go to jail.  I don't know what is going to happen, but she should.

I am sure this was a one in a million thing, but why take the chance if not with your so well behaved dog, then with another life?  What if that driver would have been someone you love?

i'm being shortsighted because i don't foresee my dog killing another person in a type of incident you yourself describe as having a one in a million chance of occuring.

.....okeydokey then.

taking that line of reasoning, you're being "myopic" every time you walk your dog because your dog could possibly pull it's leash out of your hand, run into the street, and cause a multi fatality ten-car pile-up. how dare you walk your dog!

 
I am not going to reply to what you just said, although I could say a lot.  eople like you enjoy to argue just to get people upset, the best thing is to ingnore you. 
Have a nice evening!

I suppose that possibility would be fairly easy to eliminate by training ones dog to walk properly on a lead, paying attention to your dog and sliding the leash handle over your wrist AND holding it in your hand.......

ORIGINAL: glenmar

I suppose that possibility would be fairly easy to eliminate by training ones dog to walk properly on a lead, paying attention to your dog and sliding the leash handle over your wrist AND holding it in your hand.......

 
Well said Glenda.  The incident I described just happened last week.  It aired almost 24/7 on the local channel.  I have seen less dogs off leash since.  Is unfortunate something like that had to happen for people to obey the law at all times not only when it shows up like Satch suggests.

MANY times i've had to grab the OTHER dog because the owner is simply uselessly screaming and has no control over their dog.

 
This was my exact point to this whole issue. YOU might be in full control of your dog and that is fabulous but there are those variables in which we can not control and irresponsible people who *think* their dog is, but is not really reliable. I've found it much easier to have control over my dog in these instances by having my dog onlead where they KNOW for sure what is expected of them and I can safely stop the other dog because their owner isn't in control.
 
I personally wouldn't go to the off leash parks just because of other owners. We do the Gorge, our local state park and visit beaches when traveling as well as unoccupied ball parks. I've had my dogs attacked at shows and health clinics by breeds that would curl your hair. Luckily for those owners my dogs know how to behave in public or they'd have had some fresh meat snacks

ORIGINAL: olinda

 eople like you enjoy to argue just to get people upset, the best thing is to ingnore you. 

 
Olinda, There is a good reason I shut up and grabbed the popcorn.

I'll admit to letting the dog I had before Max walk off leash - but we walked on a bike path that meandered through neighborhood parks so there were no streets and/or traffic. Bud was what we called a *chicken* [] He stayed right by my side.  If he happened to get a little ahead, he'd stop and look back to see where we were and either wait where he was or come back to us. People who saw him would remark about what an incredibly well trained dog he was when, in fact, he wasn't trained at all.  He was just too *chicken* to get more than a couple of feet away. Max, on the other hand, will always be on a leash unless he's at the dog park.

Joyce

Since I have one of the dreaded bull breeds, Gypsy is ALWAYS leashed when we go out.  She has never offered to be anything but a lady in public, but it would only take ONE time for a fight to ensue and guess who would be blamed for the fight?  That's right--my leashed Am Staff.  Never mind that the(hypothetical) dog who started the fight was not leashed and that the owner was whining (or screaming), "Buddy, come here.  I said get over here. Damn it, Buddy, you are embarrassing me!" as Buddy is trying his level best to shred Gypsy.

When I walk shelter dogs, I often encounter strange off-leash dogs who are very intent on driving me batty.  I am walking a dog whose quirks I know little or nothing about (is s/he dog aggressive? Hates men? Loves kids? Hates bikes, hats, trucks...the list is endless) and now I am dealing with a snarling Lab mix who wants nothing more than to shred  the dog I have on leash (legally).  If this dog were on a leash, this wouldn't be happening in the first *&^%% place!

Olinda, what a dreadful thing to happen!  And what a bizzare accident.  My heart goes out to that mans poor family.
 
Lori, the "fear" of german shepherds is not quite so bad as it is of the man eating pits, BUT, many, many people ARE afraid of big dogs and unless they are covered in long hair (like a golden) eople can freak.  My dogs right to walk off lead doesn't preclude a humans right to walk without fear of attack.  Now I'd say that my dogs are 99.9999% "safe" with just about anyone, however it's that miniscule chance that they *might* not like someone (as Sheba HATED the drunk) and gosh darn it they ARE dogs.  No matter how well trained, no matter how good their temperment, they are STILL dogs and I can't pretend to totally, 200% understand all their "triggers".
 
And FEAR of dogs, well, that truely is something that they can SMELL.  *I* smelled it when a furnace repair guy came to the first house we lived in up here.....the pups were under 8 weeks old and just cute, but he was sooooo afraid of them that *I* could smell the fear.  I'd never smelled it before and it was interesting to me to actually be able to.
 
It's simply not fair to the rest of the world, non dog lovers, fearful folks, whoever, to insist on breaking the law.  I can always find someplace for the crew to romp off lead if it comes to that. But human beings get enough respect from me to snap the leads on.

i didn't expect this conversation to go this far... wow, i was just complaining...
But, i do wish i could find more places to play off leash with my dog, since she isn't great with other dogs, and she is a bully breed... But the reality is i will always be on lead when walking her, if not for my safety, but for other dogs. Also, i can see some neighbors who haven't met her before be a little scared about seeing her, so it just helps to be on lead...

One of the issues I did not seem mentioned concerning dogs off lead involves modeling (maybe someone said it and I just missed it).  Reality number one:  People watch the behavior of other people.  Reality number two:  Observed behavior impacts the behavior of the observer in some cases.  So consider a dog park.  People go and see other dogs off lead, so their dog is released.  People see someone with well behaved dogs and think I want my dog to do that too.  They practice in the backyard.  The dog does it very well even for a day or two.  The people think, I trained my dog to walk off lead.  Off they go on a walk.
 
I have reasonable control of my dog, but he walks on lead.  I have many, many friends with OTCH (obedience trial champions) who walk their dogs on lead.  I know of OTCH dogs who have been in their own yards, had a momentary glitch and a slow response to a command, result dead dog.  Even happened to one of my own dogs when I was a kid and my mother was walking him.
 
The issue is control and safety of all involved.  Our behavior impacts the behavior of others.  Most folks who own dogs (look at the estimated numbers in the US alone) are clueless about how to teach such a level of control.  When an individual choose to do off lead work in the view of the public, the impact that work may have on the observers should be considered.
 
As to the validity of the impact of observation on behavior, I do this kind of stuff for a living,  the studies are out there in multiple species.

Excellent point mrv.
 
My walking my well trained and well mannered GSDs off lead could well encourage someone else to try the same thing and the results could be dreadful.  I don't claim to have some high level of training skill, but I DO have a lot of time to spend working with them.  In todays world, unfortunately, I don't think the majority of folks can say the same...and they might *think* that a couple of 20 minute sessions in the back yard are ample.
 
Yet another GREAT reason to obey the laws.

Chiming in here....
 
Where I live dogs have to be leashed on streets and  edestrian walkways.  I would never DREAM of breaking those rules.  However, here we don't have dogs parks as such - we just have parks.  People walk their dogs off-leash in parks.....thinking back, I am not sure that I have ever seen a leashed dog being walked through a park here.  Everyone is just sensible about it.  I take Ben walking at the less-busy times of day and am constantly aware of where other dogs may be, he also stays close to me.
 
Dog culture is different here.  Off lead dogs in parks are the norm, although people tend to leash them when walking past children's play areas.  I don't know what happens when one dog attacks another - or a person - because it just doesn't seem to be so much of a reality here.  I have also, since getting Ben, not met a badly-trained dog, I have only met well-mannered dogs and owners who are a pleasure to talk to while our dogs play.  I am not for a second saying that bad things don't happen here, I am sure they do, I am just pointing out societal differences.
 
Kate