The "Wolf Dog" Issue

Couldn't have said it better my self! I did actually have a GSD/wolf mix, but I knew it for a fact because we saw the father, an actual wolf. He was in a small enclosure in the yard of the backard breeder. Everytime someone asked us what kind of dog Hannah was, we told them a purebred GSD, because we didn't want to make it seem like we were wolf-owning ego maniacs. She was a highly reliable dog though, contrary to what you said. She was sensitive, sweet and lving. Very obedient, eager to listen, the list goes on and on! We lost her around a two years ago due to bloating problems.

Haleigh

I think the unreliability problems come in when folks don't realize that sexual maturity really alters a hybrid's attitudes. And/or people just being clueless and stupid. You obviously took the time to treat your Hannah right! []

Jeano,

My grandfather always had dogs on his shop property (around 10 acres) at night they were there to protect the various machinery and whatever else was around.  One of his bitches was bred by a coyote.  The result was Bozo, a coyote mix that was great whenever you were looking, but as soon as you turned your back *WHAM* he'd bite you on the butt.

I always wanted a hybrid, but the more I know about them the more I figure it's just some back-woods ploy to make money.  Needless to say, I'm not a fan of them.  I've met 3 or 4 wolf-hybrids and 2 of them are incredibly sweet.  But I don't think that most people have the abilities to deal with hybrids:  The digging, the escapism, the nce issues, housebreaking issues, and those are just for starters. 

I'm sure there are success stories with these mixes but I have to confess, I just don't see the point.  They are not wolves who get to run free with their pack, and they are definitely NOT dogs, any more than a mule is a horse (or a donkey). 
Since they are not dogs they cannot possibly be subject to the same rules and assumptions that we have in place when raising domesticated dogs, and since they are not wolves we can't simply assume they will act like a wolf either.  The same is true of coyote mixes, IMHO.
I think temperament in dogs can be unpredictable enough.  It can be bred for but even then there are no cast iron guarantees.  I just don't see the point in playing with fire even more by adding the unpredictability of a hybrid into the mix.
 
BTW, this attitude is held on anyone who INTENTIONALLY breeds or gets such a hybrid.  I realise that there are accidental breedings and Jean, I know you have worked hard with Sofia - she is lucky to have you.
 
Kate

I will also chime on the side of leaving wolves alone. Here are the problems I would expect in a hybrid. Because wolves are not domesticated, they are highly intelligent (problem-solving) and very indepependent (they have to be to survive without help from man.) This can make them hard to train and hard to depend on that training being there. Our training would seek to avert the very instincts that help them to survive. Dogs have been with man, eating whatever we give them, for about 100,000 years. Wolves still hunt and bring down big game. I was more of a fan of them being two different species, even though they can produce viable off-spring.

Ultimately, there is no reason for breeding the two for anything other than the vanity of man. Left alone, they do not normally breed and some dogs, such as Great Pyr, were bred to chase them and coyotes away from the flock of sheep.

I and my boss's wife share an admiration for wolves. And we think wolves belong in Yellowstone or Yosemite rather than a backyard. I'm not criticizing those who own hybrids but it may certainly may be as suspect as any cross-breeding. Otherwise, the species' would avoid each other. To inject some reality, Shadow's playmate, a JRT named Duke, was re-homed and got out of his yard and lost a fight with a coyote.

I personally believe that wild animals belong in the wild.  However, when it comes to an unintentional mix, what are ya gonna do?  You can't leave a part dog in the wild, and it's risky to have a part wolf in your home....and as Jean points out, the "wild" side will eventually rear it's head.
 
When I went back to college one of the students was deliberately breeding wolf dogs.....momma was kept tied on a heavy chain and lived outside 24/4, so this gal wasn't doing anything to try to socialize her, just cashing in on the (to me) backwoods attitude that its cool to own a part wild beast.  That to me is totally wrong.  We have members who rehab wild animals and release them back to the wild, and thats awesome.  But to bring them home with the full intention of keeping them and then breeding them just strikes me as wrong.  That just screams of the human arrogance that WE know better for these creatures than they do.
 
This is my personal OPINION and not intended to put down anyone who actually HAS a hybrid.

Lump me in with the wild animals belong in the wild. I will extend this to just about any animal on the face of the planet.
 
I really, really dislike most zoos. They don't keep animals in their natural enviroment, and, typically, their enclosures are too small (3 tigers in a 2 acre pen is when comes to my mind). I dispise circuses. Elephants are incredibly intelligent, yet look what they have to live like. Shame on humans.
 
Anyone that thinks they should own a wolf (or wolf mix) because it's 'cool' should just leave the entire Canidae family alone and perhaps stick to good ol' Felis domesticus... or, perhaps, no animals at all.
 
Now, those that rescue hybrids or pure wolves that have been abandones are a completely different story. I commend them.
 
I always found the information at [linkhttp://www.wolfpark.org]http://www.wolfpark.org[/link] particularly helpful. Especially this article: [linkhttp://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/Poster_intro.html]http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/Poster_intro.html[/link]
 
 

I feel it's a shame that people would even breed these dogs knowing that they could attack a child or anyone for that matter. Why would you do such a thing? 
 
We have a local petting zoo here, it's not big at all. Mostly farm animals. And somehow the owner gets tigers and he had a lion as cubs. He raises them in his home like a member of the family.  They are brought out on display on weekends, where kids can bang on the glass windows to get this lions attention. Once I saw this I never brought my children back. I was fine paying $1 to see some goats, but I will not support keeping tigers and lions in a glass box.
 
So two years ago the lion is being walked and a women walked by to pet it. the lion grabbed her and was pulling her down. They said it was not the lions fault because the woman was on her period.
 
Then this year the tiger attacked a small boy. I do not agree with wild animals being kept as pets. i do not care how cute they are. I will not go to Zoo's or the circus for this reason.

Angel- About four years ago whenever I would go to the Kalahari water park resort in Wisconsin, I would look at the baby tigers and hold them and take photos. I was still a little kid (now I'm in my teens, so...). Now when I look at them, I think "Wow, wouldn't that be a great photo to show my sister?" But everytime I think that, and look back at the tigers and leopard, I cry. They're not being treated well. Having little kids drop them, pull at them, squeeze them, ad they can't do anything because they're slow and sluggish from SEDATIVES!!!

Haleigh

For me, what I like/admire about wolves does NOT make them good pets.  And diluting the wolf, seems just sad.  I understand wanting that special connection with something wild, but owning a wolf seems to make the wolf  less.  Less of that wild animal, less of what we admire about wolves. 
 
My personally feeling is that wolfX should not be any more leagal than a tiger.  Most people have a hard enough time taking care of and training a Lab let alone a high % wild animal.
 
The other thing is I have know several people who owned wolf mixes.  A lot of the ones I've seen look about as much wolf as my basenjis.  I think there are quite a few people selling wolf-mixes that don't have any wolf in them at all, but since it sounds good and perhaps someone could sell a wolf-mix for more $$$ than a common mutt, they call their huskyX dog a wolfX.  I think this causes a real problem because it gives a false impression of exactly what a wolfX is to the owner and the public.  Then when some gets a wolfX that really is a wolfX, they are woefully unprepaired. 
 
Some of the most interesting reading comparing wolves and dogs was in If Dogs Could Talk.

For many of the reasons above, i do not think it's a good idea/  I have personally know 2 dogs with wolf blood.  One was half rottie, a quarter shepherd and a quarter timber wolf.  His name was Ralph, he was enormous, and a sweeter dog I've never met.
 
Then there's Monique.  She is a friend from HS's half dog, half wolf.  Best I can tell the dog hald is shepherd, but the more I see pics of dogs and wolves, I suspect the wolf portion may have been a bit more than half.  She was always a VERY scared puppy.  I mean VERY scared.  She has got to be five or six and still is somewhat afraid of my friend's father and he's never laid a hand on her.  When she was young, she was just scared, but as she got older, she became fear aggressive with a wicked prey drive.  She attacked their chi-poo sveral times before finally killing her.  She also attacked their cat.  The cat survived, and learned to stay out of her way.  When you left my friend's house, you HAD to back out the door, because if you turned around she would spring at you.  There were several times that I felt the wind from her air snap as my friend's mother is assuring me that she won't hurt me.
 
DH always had to walk in the house first because while she runs from men entering the house, she springs at women with murderous intent.  They never have been able to fully house break her--she poops on the dining room floor--sometimes on papers, often not.  They couldn't put  her in their fenced yard because she would escape.

I accidently acquired a very wolfy wolf hybrid from a shelter some time ago. She was everything you DON'T want in a dog-- scarily intelligent, absolutely no desire to please or work, skittish and fearful, extremely aggressive, very high exercise requirements, very high prey drive, never trustworthy with strangers, children, or strange dogs, howled loudly at night, tried to escape every chance she got. I can't understand why anyone would deliberately breed or buy such a hybrid.

for all those wonderful lovely reasons, you must be a true lover of this breed or forget it. 

I didn#%92t really have time to say much before but now I do.


  Like I said you must be a true lover of this breed or absolutely just forget about having one.


  They are very skittish, shy, don#%92t like a lot of different people coming and going, this is why its very important to socialize them a lot. In my case I have such a large household that Sasha isn#%92t as skittish as she may have been under different circumstances. Having said that though she doesn#%92t warm up to people quickly, she isn#%92t about to accept anyone new into her pack unless I say its ok. I have taken her to my work at our local Home Depot and walked her around in there on more than one occasion, she enjoys these outings but at the same time would prefer people to keep their distance. Hence I don#%92t take her through the store any more, its too nerve wracking on her.


  The howling; well Sasha was taught to bark, no thanks to lil miss Heidi. My husband and I were both there the day she learned she could bark, she actually thought about it then let out this little bark, she looked soooo surprised that sound came out of HER mouth! She thought about it some more and did it again! Now she barks ALL the time! She seems to get a real kick out of her own voice! She only howls when left home alone of if she is feeling really blue.


  The intelligence; ahhhhhh yes they are some extremely smart animals! You don#%92t EVER want them to observe how you open baby gates or anything else you don#%92t want them getting into, they will watch you intently, then the next thing you know they can open things themselves! Sasha can unlatch any baby gate out there, she can also open our freezer and get her very own popcycles or ice cream! We have one of those new refrigerators that has the freezer on the bottom, she can open it right up! This is why we now have a deep freeze in the basement and the only thing kept in the upstairs freezer is ice. Child locks on cabinets? HA! She made quick work of those too! LOL! All food products had to be moved to the higher cabinets, dishes and stuff had to go to the lower ones, other wise she will wait for no one to be in the kitchen and off she goes getting herself a little snack!


  We bobby trapped the trash when she was very young so she tends to leave that alone. What we had done was place several mouse traps all around it, we used the wolf in her against her. How you ask? We knew if something scared her enough at a young age she would never mess with it again. Unlike dogs, wolves never forget.  We tried this when she was older and figured out how to open the kitchen cabinets, one trap went off, she jumped back wasn#%92t too happy about it but then puzzled the thing out and figured out how to either set them off and get them out of her way or simply avoid them! When she was just 10 weeks old we had done the booby-trapped trashcan, that one nailed her, it was stuck to her little tongue! Scared the life out of her! She doesn#%92t mess with the trash, there might be a big evil monster in there! LOL!


  Yes this breed is highly intelligent, some times as you said scarily so.


  I don#%92t agree with the no desire to please part though, she really likes making me happy yet if she wants to do something bad enough she is going to do it and to heck with any consequences.


  Very high prey drive, yes, ohh heavens yes! This is why I really need to get our back yard fenced in. its kind of funny to see, all the hair on her neck and back stands up in this Mohawk look, the hair right on her but, right on the base of her tail will stand on end and BAM she#%92s off! She actually caught, literally CAUGHT a rabbit!! Of course after she did it she didn#%92t know what to do with it, it seemed to shock her every bit as much as it shocked us that she actually managed to catch it!


  What she did was grabbed the rabbit, did I full flip in the air, came down watched the rabbit run away looked at me as if to say, ‘did you SEE that! Did ya!! HUH! MOM! Did you SEE what I DID!#%92 LOL! I sure wish I had a camera ready at that moment! Its was just toooooo funny!


  I don#%92t know where you got never trustworthy, my best guess is you didn#%92t know what you had on your hands and you treated it like a dog, you cant do that with this breed, they need to know your in charge and you#%92re the great protector, nothing will ever harm them when your around because you are ALPHA. Alpha is GOD; they live for the Alpha to tell them they are good good good.


  I cant imagine a fence holding Sasha back if she really wanted past it, she can jump higher than any dog I have ever seen in my LIFE!


  A little story….


  I was getting ready to unload a bunch of peat moss and stuff out of my truck, Sasha saw me heading to the truck seemed to think she was going on a ride, she took off full speed ahead, I really need to clock her one of these days, she is an absolute BLUR! Anyhow she took off full speed ahead leapt about 20 feet away from the truck sailed right over my head and landed perfectly right past all those bails of peat moss at the very end of the tuck bed right up next to the back windshield! My neighbor was outside doing something, he stood up and said, ‘I cannot believe I just saw a dog DO that!#%92 I looked at Sasha, felt the back of my head, I had felt the wind of her body in mid air make my pony tail move! My mouth was hanging open and I said to my neighbor, ‘that was like a 20 foot leap! How in the world did she manage it!#%92 my neighbor could only stand there in awww and agreed with me, Sasha was a good 20 to 25 feet away from the truck when she made her move to go sailing through the air! AMAZING!


  That said, I still plan to put in a fence, however I know if she ever really wanted to she could just sail right over it.


  The aggression, again you must not have handled your wolf hybrid the right way. Of course that#%92s not your fault, you did say you didn#%92t know it was a wolf/dog when you got it.


  Sasha is not aggressive, she summits to me, my husband and the kids, although there have been times she seems to think she is going to move up the totem pole and be over one of the kids, its my job, not the kids job even though they are bigger than I am, I am ALPHA I am GOD in Sasha#%92s eyes, Jeff and I are the great leaders, everyone will do as we say and no other way is there. This is how Sasha sees us. When she tries to move up the ladder, myself or my husband must be right there and take her down back to her level, we do this using the alpha roll, growling and looking her right in the eye when we do it. When she submits we let go all is good. The world has its perfect order and she is happy with it once again.


  I will say though playing with her you better be ready to take some hard hits, handle getting long scrapes on your arms and/or legs, you had best not worry what those long sharp teeth can do to you, just grazing them has cut open my arm on more than one occasion. Her claws are sharper than Heidi or Chubby#%92s, she keeps them short and perfect. She gives herself manicures about once a week, honest to goodness she does!


  Play time is fun, but its physical and I come out of it with at least one or two bloody scrapes on me every time. That doesn#%92t faze me, I like playing hard. I will say though when she decks you, you feel it all the way through your skull! She does this by head butting you right in the face! Ohhh man I hate that! But I don#%92t let her for one moment think it hurt, I get her back and we roll around romping for a good hour every day. Its such fun!


  I love this breed; just love it. I have been in love with wolves my entire life and having Sasha is an experience I would not want to miss, I am so glad that I get to watch her learn and grow. I really don#%92t have the words to say how much she means to me, Sasha is my world.


  One last thing, I don#%92t tell people around here what Sasha is, I let them make their own conclusions. The reason? When most folks here the word wolf they think evil going to rip my throat out animal. That simply isn#%92t true. Rather than deal with frightened neighbors I keep Sasha#%92s wolf side a secret.