Back, sort of...LOTS to share!

    • Gold Top Dog

    Back, sort of...LOTS to share!

    Well as some of you may remember, I've spent the last month moving to and beginning our new little farm. Because we live out in the boonies it's taken a while to get internet set up. We STILL probably won't have it for another few days, right now I'm visiting my parents and I thought I'd pop in and update.
     
     
    So...I don't even know where to begin. Our place is AWESOME. I don't have any pictures yet, since my camera is probably still stuffed in a box somewhere, but I'll try to get some soon.
     
    So...first week, Ogre went completely nuts. At our old house, he was trained to leave chickens, cats, and other small animals alone. He was always in close proximity to them and we worked to teach him to leave them be. He did, he was fine. The second we got here, all of that training went out the window and he's pretty much lost it. So far, in the past month, he has killed 4 chickens (including Benvolio, a rooster I raised from a day old chick who was formerly very good friends with Ogre), a feral cat, a rabbit, and has gotten into a violent, horrible, surprised-it-wasn't-deadly-fight with Culley.  This post would be a million miles long if I went into detail with everything he's killed and how it happened, so just suffice it to say we're doing everything we can to control him right now. We have almost 8 acres, but theres an acre fenced around the house that is our actual yard. After he climbed the fence and killed chickens the second we got there, we put up an electric fence inside the chain link fence. No animals other than the dogs are allowed inside the yard, for their safety. This works as long as nothing comes in the yard- but feral cats still climb the wire fence and jump over the electric one, which is how this particular cat got killed...and chickens can fly right over it. They've learned to stay away from the yard, for the most part, but their still sometimes forget...and for that reason, Ogre now has to wear a basket muzzle whenever he's outside. [:(
     
    The fight with Culley was my fault- we had put up the electric fence that day to contain Ogre, and were completely exhausted. We decided to go into town (about 30 minutes away) to get some dinner and as exhausted as I was, I forgot to crate up the dogs and they were left alone together. Ogre and Culley disliked each other from day one, and I accept full responsibility for their fight- I was negligent in forgetting to seperate them. We got home and they were fine, but as we were coming through the gate, Ogre jumped on Culley- completely unprovoked- and grabbed him by his face. He picked him up by his face, and began swinging him around like a ragdoll. Culley was so surprised he didn't have the slightest chance to defend himself.
     
    Very long story short, it took us a good 3 minutes or so to seperate them and it was the most horrible fight I've ever seen. In the end they were both okay- just flesh wounds that bled alot and looked much worse than they were. They were both sore for a few days, but that was about it. Ogre and Culley though are now no longer allowed to even SEE each other, much less interact- and I'll never forget to seperate my dogs again when I'm gone.
     
    So yes, without going into pages of detail, Ogre has become a huge problem. We've only been here a month, so I'm hoping that it's all just due to the stress of change and moving to a completely new environment and that hopefuly he'll settle down....but I don't know. So far I've only lost chickens and a rabbit to him... one day it could be my goats or a cow or a horse. I'm hoping we get this worked out before that becomes an issue. If I don't figure out how to get him to leave my animals alone soon, I'll have to call a behaviorist to help.
     
    There were several chickens- 15 or so- already here when we moved in, left by the former owners with our permission. We added our chickens, a couple of ducks, and some guineas to the flock. So far we have lost 2 chickens, both the ducks, and both the guineas to coyotes- and the guineas were inside our shed, so I'm still not even sure how it happened. Either way, I have since seen the coyotes responsible a few times and while they haven't taken anything in about a week, I see them prowling around alot and it's become a pretty huge problem. I keep my poultry contained, but it seems that coyotes can get into just about anything. [&o]
     
    So, I started tossing around the idea of a LGD. I researched it for a couple of weeks and had pretty much made up my mind to get one. Then, Ogre managed to tear off his muzzle, get through a fence, to spend the day tormenting my rabbits. They were a couple of acres away from the house, in the barn, in secure wire cages. He spent a few hours nipping their feet through the bars, tormenting them, and eventually causing one to die from shock before I caught him. I am STILL furious with him about it...and I decided right then that I was GOING to get a dog to guard my livestock- from coyotes, and from Ogre, should he escape again.
     
    I started looking online, but long story short, learned from talking to the owner of the feed store I shop at that a lady about 45 minutes away from me had Pyr puppies for sale, and that the parents were working dogs. I won't pretend that this person was an amazing breeder, but she wasn't terrible. The parents weren't registered, but they WERE good working dogs- both the sire and dam guarded their cattle and goats and from what I could see, they took that job very seriously. I had researched pyrs a bit beforehand and they seemed to have very correct temperaments- at least the temperament I personally would want in an LGD. The breeder DID at least have OFA's done on the parents and that was alot more than I'd expected. It wasn't a perfect breeder by any means, I admit that...but the puppies were out of good working dogs, and that was what I needed. The puppies had already been exposed to goats, which was great- they were letting them go way too early though. I asked if they'd be willing to hold the puppy I wanted until he was 8 weeks, and they wouldn't. He's barely 6 weeks now- but he's a great guy. He was the boldest and most independant puppy, which is what I specifically wanted. We brought him home yesterday, and I've got my fingers crossed that he'll be the answer to our predator problem...and our Ogre problem...once he's grown and trained. For the next few weeks, he's going to just be following me around when we do our farm chores, so that he can get aquainted with our poultry, rabbits, and 2 goats. After doing that for a while, I'll begin kenneling him with my 3 month old goat kid, so that he can bond with the goats. I'm keeping his contact with the other dogs to a minimum, since I don't want to socialize him too much to the other dogs. I understand that I could have gone to a well known, reputable breeder- but the truth is, I have a problem with predators *now,* and I count myself lucky that I found a decent puppy out of working parents as quickly as I did. I honestly didn't have time to go through someone's adoption process, sit on their waiting list for a year, and then spend the next year or two training my puppy. As it is, I'll probably lose a good many more animals to predators before this puppy is grown and trained- so I count myself very, very lucky. I feel that I got a great pup, from good working parents, even if he didn't come from an excellent breeder. I'm sure most will disagree, but there it is.
     
    But yeah- that's the gist of what's gone on so far. A crazy Ogre, some new animals (2 nanny goats, some more chickens, and my starter herd of meat rabbits) and a brand new Pyr puppy. Our house is fantastic...I absolutely love it out there in the middle of nowhere with no one to bother me. Soon we're hoping to add some more goats (a billy, so I can breed my older nanny and have her kid in spring) a Jersey calf (if I can find a good one) a few pigs, and a horse or two. Despite the trouble we've had, I absolutely love all of this. I'll try to update with pictures of the puppy in a little bit (since I'm at my parents, I can use their camera) and pictures of our little farm when I can get them.
     
    Anyway, just wanted to pop in and update. Hopefully I'll be back full time in a few days. [:)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Hey girl! Glad things are going good, for the most part. I'm sorry about Ogre. Congrats on the new pup-can't wait to see some pics. I hope everything else turns out okay! keep us updated when possible.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Wow.
    Thats quite the update...

    Im glad to hear that your new house is AMAZING! And wow, a new puppy? You've certainly got your hands full, but you are such an amazing dog mommy that Im sure you'll be able to pull it off.

    Im sorry that you are having such a hard time with Ogre, but it probably is due to stress and change, but hopefully it stays under control.

    Im glad that you recognize your mistake of leaving the dogs together unsupervised, and Im sure you'll never do it again. I suppose the best way to learn is to make the mistake yourself. And, Im not sure what went on while you were out, but at least the fight happened in your presence and you were able to break it up.

    Good luck with everything, and I can't wait to see pictures of the new Pyr pup. Whats his name??
    • Gold Top Dog
    You'll probably just have to reinforce Ogre's training in the new "scene." He's probably a bit uncertain and does what he does to establish order in his mind. But congratulations on the new digs.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Well its good to hear from you.  I was wondering the other day where you had been.  I remember now that you bought the farm.... wait that didn't sound right...[&:]

    Well I hope everything works out with Ogre.  I'm sure he's just stressed and his training will come back with your diligence. 

    Aside from the puppies being released too early, I can't see too too much wrong with where you got your pup.  I still believe that working dogs don't have to follow the same exact guidelines that your average purebreeds do.  Registration would be nice... but to me its just a peice of paper.  Don't beat yourself up for being in the right place at the right time.

    Congrats on the move!  And the acres!!!
    • Gold Top Dog
    pics when you can
     
    congrats on the puppy - sorry for Orge but hopefully he will settle soon - have fun with new place
    • Gold Top Dog
    Yup, same thing happened with my dogs when I moved out to the boonies. All  agreements with the cats were apparently null and void as I learned the hard way (two cats later). Now the cats don't get to go outside and they get locked away from the dogs when I'm not home.

    Ah well; man plans god laughs.
    Paula
    • Gold Top Dog
    wow, what a crazy update! Lot has happened. Everytime I read one of your posts you have to add a new pup to your siggy [;)]  All kidding aside I hope Ogre settles in and the pyr takes care of your predator problem. Pics would be awesome, I love Pyrs. [:D]
    • Gold Top Dog

    Ratsicles
    Your farm sounds great!  Sorry about the problems with Orge and the loss of Benvolio.  The pup sounds precious!  What is his name?


     
    Good luck dealing the coyotes!
     
    After some of the recent posts from new puppy owners, please be sure and worm the pup right away (unless it was just done).  Then worm again at 8 weeks.  This link shows an inexpensive way (when dealing with lots of animals) that one Beagle breeder uses:
    http://www.beaglesunlimited.com/beaglehealth_canineintestinalworms.htm 
     
    Maybe the Pyr breeder would let you bring the pup back periodically to play with his mom.  That would help with bite inhibition.

    • Gold Top Dog
    Thanks all! Yeah, I'm *hoping* that Ogre's problem is just being stressed from the move. He's also spending more time outside now that I have to rotate him and Culley- Ogre stays in while Culley is out, and vice versa- and Ogre has NEVER liked going outside for much more than using the potty. Being an Akita, he can be a bit of a turd when he feels slighted...and right now, he does.
     
    The puppy's name is Beaureguard. Chief Beaureguard. I haven't decided yet what I want to call him- Chief, or Beau, or what. We'll still have to figure that out.
     
    Yeah, having a new puppy right now is a big deal, but it's not so bad. I wouldn't have added another PET dog right now- but in the month I've been here, it has become deperately obvious that I NEED a guardian dog. I didn't expect to find one so quickly and wasn't even really really looking yet, but since such a great opportunity presented itself, I decided to take it.
     
    janet_rose, thanks for the link. [:)] He's got a checkup scheduled for Tuesday, and he'll be wormed while he's there. For now he's staying away from the other dog's poop, and they're being kept away from his.
     
    As for pics- I don't have time to post them all right this sec, but I have them uploaded to my photobucket. Feel free to have a look. [:)]
    [linkhttp://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Ratsicles/Butter/]http://s13.photobucket.com/albums/a273/Ratsicles/Butter/[/link]
    • Gold Top Dog
    Chief Beaureguard is precious!
     
    Can you explain the spiritoval... picture?  :D
    • Gold Top Dog
    I dont think is a good idea to let your dogs lick off the blood from the dead chickens as it appears in one of your pics, if you dont want any of them killing chickens you should start from there
    • Gold Top Dog
    I dont think is a good idea to let your dogs lick off the blood from the dead chickens as it appears in one of your pics, if you dont want any of them killing chickens you should start from there

     
     
    I have to agree with that statement.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I dont think is a good idea to let your dogs lick off the blood from the dead chickens as it appears in one of your pics, if you dont want any of them killing chickens you should start from there

     
    I assume you're referring to one of the pictures in my album. I don't know what picture you're referring to, but I'm going to assume that it's one involving Butter eating a freshly killed chicken. While I don't feed a totally raw diet, my dogs DO get some raw meals and part of the reason I raise my own chickens- and now, my own goats and rabbits- is so that I have a source of fresh, organic meat for my dogs. I don't know if you've ever plucked a chicken before, but plucking is a HUGE hassle, and since the dogs don't seem to mind doing it themselves, I usually just throw them the freshly killed chicken if I plan on giving them one. I got Butter when he was 4 week old and he's been eating this way since- and I have NEVER had a problem with him chasing or in any way hurting ANY animals, including chickens. He does not associate the chickens I hand him for dinner with the live chickens running around outside. Ogre, on the other hand, the dog we are discussing here, cannot eat raw- he has a very sensitive stomach and despite my best efforts, raw meat has never agreed with him. He has NEVER been handed a freshly killed chicken, and does not eat the ones he kills...he simply kills them. I was, in the past, very successful in training him not to kill other animals despite his very strong prey drive- since our move, he seems to have forgotten this. We're working on retraining right now.
     
    Either way, my dogs eating raw chicken is in no way causing them to be chicken killers. If that were the case, Butter, Culley, and Pepito- all of whom eat raw- should all be slaughtering chickens right now. Ogre does not eat raw, and it is not the reason for killing chickens.
     
     
    I have to agree with that statement.

     
    I'm sure you do. I would also like to point out that I posted a link to my photobucket specifically to share pictures of the puppy. If anyone has a problem with the other pictures in my album, they are quite free not to view them. [8|]
     
     
    Can you explain the spiritoval... picture? 

     
    That's a drawing I did, and the explanation refers to some of my spiritual beliefs. I have in the past been mocked by a certain rude member for explaining them, so if you're really curious, PM me and I'll be glad to explain. [;)]
    • Gold Top Dog
    That's great that you like your new house and I think it's a great idea to have a Great Pyrenees to guard your livestock animals from predators... except for guarding them from Ogre. I would be worried that since Ogre has some dog aggression (if I remember right) that he may not back down from the Pyr. That could end really badly for one or both of them.