OT Ramblings, Musings and other OT Stuff -- WARNING -- OT

the law may not stop someone from acting on their impulses, but it does give law enforcement and the government the right to step in and punish that person for their actions. 

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

the law may not stop someone from acting on their impulses, but it does give law enforcement and the government the right to step in and punish that person for their actions. 

 
Indeed.  And if that punishment, as the government sees it and enforces it, seemed to have any measurable effect as a deterrent to first time offenders, or convicted criminals re-offending, I would be more in favour of it.  But it doesn't.  When the government (and I am not just referring to the US here, since I live in the UK) manages to come up with some kind of consequence that is actually scary enough to make would-be criminals pause for thought, then the laws that are already in existence will be more effective.  Rather than do that, though, they just make new laws and restrict even further the freedoms of the people who are law-abiding anyway.
 
Kate

ORIGINAL: Benedict


  Personally, I never think "I am going to prevent myself from driving drunk because that's the legal thing to do".  I don't drive drunk because it's the SMART thing to do.  Nobody hell bent on killing someone is going to stop and thing "wait, this is illegal"...you can't legislate against human impulse and emotion.  Either a person is going to commit a crime or they're not.
Kate

I have to argue this point, because in my experience, alot of people stop themselves from drinking and driving because of the threat of losing thier license.  And I definately dont think lifting this law would be beneficial to anyone.  In fact I think going one step farther with it would be beneficial.  Lets say, if the law stated that all occupants of the car, driver and passengers, with a valid license, would get a suspension, How many drunk drivers would leave the bar with a car load of people?  I certainly wouldn't get in a car with someone who "thought" they "might" be able to drive if my license was on the line. Laws are meant to discourage those that would otherwise not care or know better.  There is no 100% complience to any of them.  Well except the whaling in Oklahoma!  lol

Candace - I'm sorry, using the "drunk driving" example wasn't the best one I could have used to illustrate my point.  My bad.  I was using it to show that in general, people who are law abiding anyway will do so regardless of laws. 
 
I agree with you on the "losing their license" thing...and I think your way would be a good way to go.  But laws against drunk driving are there to protect people from each other, which as I said above, are in the "absolutely necessary" class. 
 
Kate

And personally I think public spanking or heck, even caning might do wonders for first time offenders...lmao. Anyone remember the HORROR that arose when an American punk kid almost got caned in what...Thailand or someplace?
 
He'd have gotten a slap on the hand here wouldn't he? well..a slap on someone elses hand I mean, can't touch the kids I forgot lol. And he'd likely have done the same thing given the chance afterwards. Ater a caning...I bet he'd think twice or even three times then say "no thanks"...lol.
 
Oh I know it's not practical...but gosh it's fun to think about publicly spanking some of these punk kids out there today....

Rather than do that, though, they just make new laws and restrict even further the freedoms of the people who are law-abiding anyway.

i guess that arguement depends on where you stand on the law in question. earlier the smoking bans were mentioned. i am in favor of smoking bans because of my own selfish and personal opinions. i dont see the bans as necessarily taking away freedoms but enabling me to more thoroughly excersie my own freedoms. the bans only affect me in a positive way. majority of people want to be able to eat at a restaurant or go to a bar without having to endure cigarette smoke. in a democracy majority rules, but establishments kept catering to a minority of the population because that is what was always done. unfortunately, the gov't had to step in and make laws to favor the majority's thinking.

i can see the smokers side of it too, but wouldnt this just give you (a smoker) one more reason to finally quit a nasty habit?

people here have found methods to circumvent the downsides to loosing one's driving license due to a DUI. so that particular punishment is relatively ineffective now.

The little brat that almost got caned was in Singapore. You think the US has laws....spit=fine, forget to flush=fine, gum was just recently legalized a few years ago. But d@mn!!! that is one clean city!!! Drug dealing=death....good law by the way. Only  to the people who deal the poison crap. If it was regulated.....wow...clean stuff, not healthy kind of like booze. But at least it don't have gasoline or rat poison...
George Carlin has a lot of good points about what is going on in the states....sounds a little to far left for me but he does have a point about a LOT
[linkhttp://youtube.com/watch?v=yL6ULruYjNA&mode=related&search]http://youtube.com/watch?v=yL6ULruYjNA&mode=related&search[/link]
 

ORIGINAL: cyclefiend2000

as a non-smoker i appreciate the smoking bans. as i said in the thread about useless laws, greenville, sc just banned smoking in restaurants and bars. in the city only, out where we live in the county smoking is still allowed. for the most part, i would be more inclined now to drive downtown and pay a little more for a meal knowing the guy next to me isnt about to light a cigarette.

the bars in particular thought their business would be negatively affected by the new law. however, it seems that most of the places quit complaining about the new laws after the first week or so. a bar we go to for lunch a good bit has seen increased business actually.

i just wish that the county or the other cities/towns in the county would follow suit and enact similar laws.

 
Agreed.  I am a smoker (closet) and I appreciate the law.  It forces me to go outside to smoke and I can honestly say that I smoke WAY less because of it!   Trust me, where I live at least, this law has NOT deterred the smokers from going out!!! 
 
It's been law for several years here and I've totally adjusted to it.  The last time I was in Montreal, I smoked at the table after dinner and felt a powerful combination of guilt and elation.  Like a teenager on Prom Night.  []

George is a funny guy...I don't always agree with everything he says....but I can say that about most people lol!

This is the way *I* feel about things. I agree with  Billy about a lot of things. I don't agree with the government forcing people to wear helmets or seatbelts. I know a lot of motorcycler's don't like to wear helmets because helmets hinder their peripheral vision, muffle their hearing and they can get hot and sweaty on a warm/hot day. A motorcycler, not the government, should be
the one to choose whether or not he/she wants to take the chance of becoming a vegetable. Same thing with seatbelts. If I don't want to wear a seatbelt, that's my business. I should be the one to choose whether or not I want to take the chance of flying through the windshield of my car.
 
As far as smoking goes, I'm having that very issue with the freeloading chumps who live in my house and refuse to stop smoking in the house despite being told to take it outside. Now my way of correcting this would be to throw their crap on the front lawn, change the locks and install an alarm system on the house but alas, this is Osama Bin Mama's house so I can't do that. While I don't care too much for smoking, I believe that businesses should be able to choose whether or not they want a smoking or non smoking establishment. I believe that the market will decide whether it's cost effective or not to have a smoking or non smoking establishment. With that said, I have no problem going to a pizza joint and enjoying a meal with my son in a smoke free environment just like I have no problem going into a bar to get my drink on in a smoky environment. Chances are, I'd probably light one up as I do smoke on occasion. If I don't want to go into a smoky environment, then I won't visit that establishment. If I want to get my smoke on, I'll go into a place that allows smoking. It's rather simple for me. []

George is great!!
But if you actually think about the things he says....a lot of it is pretty true isn't it? Some of it is kind of out there a little but...a lot...hmm....

As for banning smoking in public areas, I guess I'm on the fence leaning towards pro ban.  I don't smoke but my DH does.  I REALLY like that in resturants you can't smoke.  I don't like smelling smoke while I'm eating.  After I'm done I don't care as much.  As for the bars, I like not coming home stinking and my eyes burning from all the smoke.  BUT on the other hand if the bars had good ventilation I wouldn't have much of a problem.  I know DH likes to drink (anything) while smoking.  In NE I know he couldn't take the drink (usually a beer) outside when he wanted to smoke.  Here in Savannah he doesn't compain too much b/c of the glass rule (you can drink alcohol in the streets but it must be in a cup). 
 
As for the helmet and seatbelt laws:  Personally I think if you want to kill yourself by not wearing them, so be it.  I definately think that there should be an age limit on the seatbelt rule (something like 18+ can choose).  Isn't there a statistic somewhere that if you are driving a motorcycle over 35 mph (I think) and you were in an accident then the helmet only effected the outcome very slightly?
 
As for the drugs, I'm kinda weird about it.  I think you should be able to do some drugs if you are in your own home (as long as no children are present).  If you leave the house under the influence then you get in trouble (something simmilar to drinking and driving).  I also think there should be an age limit on them too.  I don't like the idea of a 16 yr old smoking pot, but if a 60 yr old wants to and doesn't harm anyone why not?

Quote[60 yr old wants to and doesn't harm anyone why not]
 
You just described my mom!!!  Whats the deal about that pot thing? Not that big of a deal....well over here it is...I have visa things to worry about......
 
In restaurants....didn't they have a smoking and no smoking area? I know you can still smell it, but still it's not like they are sitting across from you blowing it in your face. Bars...Wellllll....Right now, I actually manage a bar/restaurant...granted we never had smoking inside since it was connected to a gym...Health vs Smoking next door is kind of like wiping your a$$ before you poop. Understandable, we let people smoke outside, (public area) not a problem for me, I smoke...tried to quit on NYE...but look up my post about that....
The thing that bothers me, is when people ask for the manager, (me) and ask me to tell the person that is sitting 3 tables down from them outside to not to smoke....in a public area....huh???? What part of public area don't people understand???   The way I see it, if smoking bothers you that much you have two choices...1: leave or 2: don't breathe...simple right?
Helmet laws...I always wore one, but if you want to not wear one fine by me, who am I or anyone else to tell someone what they can and cant to with their life? Pretty much everyone I know that chooses to not wear a helmet knows what could and might happen if you don't wear one. I think that law came up because some lookyloo rubbernecker drove by an accident and didn't like the gore and blood and brains they saw and got"offended" and b!tched enough about it to get the ball rolling. (they just expected to see a body not the "really bad stuff")
Anyway my rant is over

I used to think legalizing MJ wouldn't be so bad...but then I had kids...lol.

In restaurants....didn't they have a smoking and no smoking area? I know you can still smell it, but still it's not like they are sitting across from you blowing it in your face.

many of the resturants we frequent, the smoking and non-smoking areas are only separeted by a half wall. i have been seated directly on the non-smoking side of the half-wall and i may as well have been smoking myself.

trust me, we either quit going to restaurants like this or asked to be seated as far as possible from the smoking section. if they try to put us near the half-wall, we leave.

another peeve of mine, is when the smoking area is right at the entry way. so i have to walk through a cloud of smoke to get to the non-smoking area. some deliquents will stand right by the door smoking and blowing smoke in everyone's face. i cant stand that either.