Help. Kid bored with school. Kind of Long...sorry.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I always say (somewhat kiddingly) if I were to have a child, I'd have it homeschooled ... and I am a 1st grade teacher :).  I see the ups and downs, but won't get into them right now.
     
    I'd talk to your principal and see if there is a way he can be tested to skip a grade or be placed in a G and T class.  Maybe he could do math with 3rd grade or 4th grade if noth everything.  They may set up a program where he can help other kids so he is being useful and not bored.  Can't hurt to look into it.  I'd also get him involved in other activities.
     
     I had a parent come to me on back to school night telling me her child knows times tables, etc. already because he is from a different state.  We decided to see how he does and if he is bored.  Well, he is soooooooooooooo slow at all his work, he is not bored in school because he barely finishes in time, but apparently at home he is bored.  So, we are going to try to see how we can get him working quicker in class so I can give him some accelerated work.  Until then, I have no proof he is as intelligent as she says.  He is smart, definitely, but he doesn't do amazing on everything. 
    • Gold Top Dog
    An accelerated program or a G&T class might be a good idea.  Skipping a grade often causes more problems than it solves. He won't be able to participate in a lot of things his classmates are doing just because of his birth date. If he plays little league, he'll be a year behind them all the way through. When it's time for a learners permit or a drivers license, he'll be a year behind then, too. Have you had a talk with the school counselor and/or his teacher to see if they've noticed anything unusual?
     
    Joyce
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have to agree with both mrv and those people who are encouraging you to homeschool. If it's done crappily, for lack of a better word, the kids are really hurt by it, but done well, it has a lot of advantages. Some people may not like this either, but if your state has cyber charter schools, they can be a nice option for people who want to home school but aren't entirely comfortable doing it on their own. My sister is in one because she didn't like the middle school. In order to accomodate her academically, they let her move up a grade in her math and science courses, and she takes her english and social studies courses at her regular grade level. Obviously, with this type of a program,you have to fill in all the social stuff on your own. Also, in her school, you are pretty much responsible for doing your own gym. You can do your own stuff at home, or you can sign up for something, like karate classes, swimming lessons, etc. They reimburse you partly for the cost, but no where near the actual cost of the stuff.
    But, now figuring that you are planning to keep him in school, the school really should accomodate him, but they most likely don't have to. You could try moving to Pennsylvania, we have Gifted IEPs, so the school would legally be required to do something for him if he tested as gifted, but I don't think you want to do that either. I'm sort of at a loss on what to tell you, other than that I was one of those kids too. I'd skip school for two or three days at a time, get my work sent home, and finish it all in one morning so that I could watch tv the rest of the time. The best thing that ever happened to me in terms of school was being placed in math enrichment classes. I still skipped school a lot (I'm sure I contributed to the district's 20 day absence policy) but I would never skip on a day when I had math enrichment. I'd come to school sick if it was a math enrichment day. I also was much happier when I got into Tae Kwon-Do, and I couldn't skip school if I wanted to go to that after school. So, whether there's something in school that can motivate him to want to be there, or there's something you can get him into after school that will motivate him to get through the school day so that he can get to that thing, I think it will make a difference. Hopefully there is something in school for him, in addition to an after school activity.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Sorry but not every kid would be better off home schooled. I see the results of extremely poor homeschooling annually in my position.

     
    I didn't say every kid would be better off in any homeschooling situation. The beauty of homeschooling is you adapt it to fit your kid. Just because some people don't do that doesn't mean homeschooling can't work for every kid. It can. I see the results of extremely poor schooling every day in LIFE.
     
    I'm always laughing when I meet ;people who can't do basic math, can't spell worth dirt, have horrible social skills, etc., because I know chances are they went to public school. And I was told my whole life how I was missing out, and wouldn't be a well-adjusted adult.
     
    Life isn't one size fits all, and education shouldn't be either.
    • Gold Top Dog
    One of the things that often occurs with home schooling involves the lack of skill on the part of the parent.  Many disinfranchised parents (based on their own experience) remove struggling kids from school.  Those kids crash and burn every time.
     
    The option of an on line school or class for enrichment is an option here in the states but I am not sure of the Canadian system.  I would assume there are parallel offerings.
     
    I would suggest that if your kid is doing poorly in school seek out a school based support network.  They are out there, you just need to dig.  Maybe the counselor, maybe the school psych, may be the G/T coordinator, maybe the curriculum director, maybe a previous teacher.  Someone in school is willing to help you.  Keep digging until you find that someone.  You can also up your value to the school by volunteering (in someone else's room) as a tutor, or other helper.  Most school really care about kids, but the job is pretty big so you need to find a way to get the interest focused on you and your kid.
     
    As to comments about how terrible public schools are,,,,, come walk in our shoes, come volunteer, work with us to help us change.  Schools are different now, kids are different, funding is down, and pressure is up.  Sure we need to do better, and we are trying.  But we could improve even more if folks would help.  It puts me in mind of a poster from my youth. 
     
    If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. 
     
    We all have to own the schools so that all kids get what they need.
    • Gold Top Dog
    I also had a thought too, is it possible someone is picking on your son?  Did someone else cut his clothes or make him cut them?  Sometimes kids pick on smaller or smarter kids than themselves. 
    [color="#000000"]Lori, I thought about this too.  And I questioned him on it and he says no.  I know that kids can lie about stuff like this but I tend to believe him since I never have trouble getting him off to school in the morning.  He's out of bed like a shot and is always the first at the bus stop in the morning.  Still I suppose its possible.



    [/color]DS#2 is artistically gifted.  Both boys get bored at times wuth school.  DS#1 was in a mixed 2/3 grade class and to keep him busy, the teacher had him do all of BOTH year's work.  Good, right?  Yes...until you hit the 3rd grade when you have a bored 8YO on your hands. 
    [color="#000000"]Lorib,
    And this is exactly what BF feels happened.  Kale was in a split grade 1/2 class last year.  For the most part, I think it started long before this year.  I remember in Kindergarten, that his report card said he could recognize his numbers up to 10, when I know damn well he could count way past 100.  Also that he recognized his primary colors, when he was mixing them and coming up with a whole spectrum of the color wheel.  I'm sure it didn't help.

    [/color]I had a parent come to me on back to school night telling me her child knows times tables, etc. already because he is from a different state.  We decided to see how he does and if he is bored.  Well, he is soooooooooooooo slow at all his work, he is not bored in school because he barely finishes in time, but apparently at home he is bored.  So, we are going to try to see how we can get him working quicker in class so I can give him some accelerated work.  Until then, I have no proof he is as intelligent as she says.  He is smart, definitely, but he doesn't do amazing on everything. 
    Stacy,  Here is where we run into Kale's biggest problem.  He's too busy goofing off to get his work done in a timely fashion.  He's been like that forever.  With everything, eating, getting dressed, brushing his teeth.  But when he actually has a time limit set and a goal at the end, he can whiz through anything.  There is never a mistake on his schoolwork that he brings home.  And he tells me all the time that he had to help so and so with this or that.  Or the teacher had him help a group of students.  But things have to capture his attention or he just shrugs them off. 

    Have you had a talk with the school counselor and/or his teacher to see if they've noticed anything unusual?
    Joyce,  I have talked to his teacher briefly.  She was the one that pointed out that he was a grade ahead in math.  She says he is a joy to have in class and that it is so nice to have a kid that just "Gets It" and doesn't need any extra help. But parent/teacher interviews are on the first so I'll talk to her in more depth then.

    MRV, thanks for the tip with that website.  We'll check it out later.  I think I will wait for BF to get home so we can look at it together. 

    Chelsea,  I am not opposed to homeschooling.  I don't think I could do it myself.  I tried doing correspondence once and I just don't have the dicepline.  I would not want my son to suffer because I got bored and quit. Plus I have a new baby coming anyday now and will still have 2 dogs to take care of while BF works full time and whatever overtime he can get to support us.  I'm not sure I would have time.  If my mom lived here, I might get her to do it, since she is like Glenda's mom in that things are to be done at certain times just because they are supposed to be done at those times.  She is very diciplined.  The online programs look interesting though.
     
    I really don't mind that Kale is smart.  I like that other parents look at him with awe when he uses big words.  I don't really want him to fall back to where he is even with his peers.  But I don't know where the medium lies.  Can a kid be well adjusted even though he is smarter than the other kids his age?  I've always felt a little superior to most of my friends.  And I don't think it has helped me.  I remember being little and knowing how to recite long lines of poetry that no 2 year old should have known.  Two specifically, Winkin, Blinkin and Nod, and The Sugarplum Tree.  I also remember that when my cousins came over with their moms and dads and we would all be playing happily together, I would inevitably get the call out to the living room, to stand and recite my poems for the adults.  I still get a sick feeling in my stomach when I hear those two poems, and am just recently starting to get an appreciation for other poems.  I don't want that to happen to Kale.

    • Gold Top Dog
    I know that you mentioned that you are talking to his teacher on the first, and it seems silly for me to suggest it as I see that you already have, as you said briefly, but I would highly recommend talking to the teacher.
     
    You can get a different insight from her, see what her perspective is.  Has she noticed your son cutting his clothing?  Has she addressed it with him?  Can she change things up for him in the meantime? 
     
    This needs to be a team effort.  Both the teacher and yourself should be involved in figuring this out, addressing any problem, going forward with a program change (ie G&T). 
     
    Maybe she can assign him some sort of a job that he can do when he is seeming bored (if, of course, his work is done.)  Maybe he can be a buddy tutor to a struggling child, or help around the classroom.  Its unfortunate that if pure boredom is the problem that he should spend his time doing something so unproductive, such as cutting his clothing. 
     
    Talk to the teacher then take it from there.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Ok feeling kind of dumb here but what is G&T?  I'm hoping some kind of culture clash, me being Canadian and all. 

    I will definately be talking to his teacher come Friday if not sooner.  BF has the day off too so we can go together. I know what you mean about getting a different insight from her.  Even BF has a different insight than me, although he tends more on the negative side than I do. 

    MRV, I've been looking at that site and it is very interesting, if a little complicated.  Then I realized that most of it is geared to teachers and that there is a parent section.  I will check that out soon.
    • Gold Top Dog
    G&T is gifted and talented.
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    If setting a timer works, does he have one for his desk?  The teacher should set time limits for him and if he finishes, he can have accellerated work or books to read.  That would be great!  Or, if he finishes by a certain time, he can go to the kindergarten room and read to the kids, etc.  Whatever will motivate and he will enjoy would work as the incentive. 
     
     
    • Gold Top Dog
    I have been through this and am still dealing with it with my 14 year old.I started getting phone calls from the school the first day of kindergarted.She was so disinterested she refused to do the work.She was destructive and even had to be physically restrained a few times when throwing tantrums.He biggest problem turned out to be the teachers not taking the time with her and noticing that she learned things differently that the other kids.She was and still is brilliant.She hit a college reading level by 5th grade and wrote her first book by age 9.At 12 she recieved a scholarship to attent Vassar college in thier gifted program.
    Our greatest help with her began with her seeing the school counselor so they actually got to know her and a teacher in third grade who recognized her as being different fromthe other kids and allowed her to learn and nlossom in her own way.She was lucky enough to get that same teacher for 5th grade and he still keeps in contact to see how she is doing.He is even trying to get her book published.
    Talk to the teacher,counselor,principal,if there arent and appropriate programs for him then the teacher should be willing to tailor a learning program specific to his needs.Sometimes these cookie cutter learning programs just dont work on some students.Its not fair of teachers and schools to think they will.
    • Gold Top Dog
    Chelsea, I am not opposed to homeschooling. I don't think I could do it myself. I tried doing correspondence once and I just don't have the dicepline.

     
    Honestly, and this is where I'm going to get bashed, I don't believe in disciplined homeschooling. The setting up a classroom and sitting for six hours doing schoolwork just like he would be at school? Not so much. I think in a lot of cases that's worse for kids than staying in school would have been. Instead of being able to hate their teachers or the other kids, the only people they have to hate in their school environment (because most kids who are forced into a school situation do hate someone) are their parents and siblings. That's a bit unhealthy.
     
    I think it's more important for a kid to be happy then to know multiplication by second grade, or knowing the 50 presidents by fifth, or whatever schools force them to learn at specific times. Math, reading, science, history, social studies, etc., are so important in every day life that even if a kid never sat down to specifically learn something, if he was paying any attention in life, he'd pick this stuff up. But the truth is that kids DO want to learn when you don't force them. Think about a baby or toddler or preschooler before they're sent to school. They're so eager to learn everything they can. Then you stick them in school for a couple years, and "learning" becomes a bad word. How tragic is that?
     
    I was homeschooled using a method called unschooling most of my life. Which basically means I directed my own education. I decided what to learn and when. At some point, the direction pointed more towards getting into college, and everything that goes along with that, then just learning what I wanted to learn. But the point is, my mother never sat and told me what I had to learn. She wasn't my teacher. She was my Mom. The world was my teacher. It worked for me. I've always been told that it was sort of a fluke, I guess, that unschooling worked for me, because it wouldn't work for everyone. I don't agree with that at all. Unschooling is how we were meant to live and learn. Sitting in a classroom with 30 kids exactly our ages is not (as my Mom always says, there's a reason humans aren't born in litters!). I can't help but feel that every person would be better off being unschooled.
     
    I'm getting off my soap box now. I didn't/don't intend to turn this thread into a debate about homeschooling, I just wanted to suggest it. If you have a few minutes, Google "unschooling", see what you think of it described by people more eloquent than me.
     
    But also remember that there is a midground between school-at-home and unschooling. Like I said, the beauty of homeschooling is it's totally customizable. If you don't have the discipline to make your kid sit at a desk working out of textbooks for 6 hours, don't do that! If you don't believe unschooling would work, don't do that either! You can do whatever you want.
     
    I don't know what the laws in Canada are like, but in the US, unschooling is legal in all 50 states, because you just work around the laws in your state and figure out what hoops you need to jump through. And that means that anything between the two extremes of school at home and unschooling is legal as well. You just have to figure out what works for you and your government.
     
    I'm not telling you to homeschool. I'm just saying don't dismiss is because for whatever reason you don't think it would work. You can make it work if you want to.
    • Gold Top Dog
    He sounds like he would do wonderfully in a Montessori program. Montessori kids work at their own pace in a multi-age classroom incorporating life skills and sensorial learning techniques with more mainstream methods. Most Montessori schools are private, which can be pricey, but there are more and more communities applying Montessori methods in public school. Here's a link to the American Montessori Society page, and a pretty comprehensive overview, off Wikipedia. As a psychologist, not to mention parent, I can't say enough good things about Montessori education, I really wish more public schools would adopt the teaching methods. Our 5 year old has been in Montessori for three years and has done wonderfully.

    http://www.amshq.org
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_method
    • Gold Top Dog
    Stacy,
    The timer is a great idea.  In fact we use it for some things at home such as finishing supper or brushing teeth, although the latter is to make sure he brushes long enough and doesnt quit to soon.  I wonder if his teacher would be ok with him having a timer on his desk.  I suppose that it wouldn't hurt the other kids and may even give them a goal as well.  I think accelerated work would be a good incentive for him as he takes pride in learning what other kids have a hard time with.  But would that not just add to the problem later on?  I mean doesn't that mean that next year would be even more boring for him?

    Chelsea,
    I believe in Canada, homeschooled students have to meet a certain educational criteria each year or it becomes neglect.  I'm not positive but I believe Ontario is the highest of all the provinces too.  A friend of mine was homeschooled until High School and then had a hard time fitting in when she started grade 9.  Those were probably isolated circumstances though.  I'm glad it worked for you. 

    As for the Montessori program, I can't seem to find any Canadian links?  Do you know if there are any?  I do know that Ontario has a very high standard of Education compared to the majority of Canada, so I don't know if learning at your own pace is even an option.  I can understand learning your own way, but falling behind also seems to be an option for both this method and the unschooling method. 


    • Gold Top Dog
    More on homeschooling. Yes, you have to be very dedicated to your child (children's) education. The ones who "crash and burn" don't represent a failure of the approach, any more than flunkouts mean traditional schooling is vitally flawed. In most cases these are people who aren't flexible enough or alert enough to address problems - but traditional schooling has a lousy track record when it comes to addressing abnormalities, too.

    Traditional schooling destroyed my brother, who is a Mensa-level genius and works as a stockboy at the age of 44. When he started school he told everything he wanted to build rockets for NASA. Since he was already building complicated constructs from lego it was highly possibly he would have been some kind of engineer. He will never get his life back and I don't want that for my kids, so we've made huge sacrifices so they can be homeschooled.

    Meet my family: PJ is seven and a half and has sensory integration issues. Going out of his comfort zone is very distracting. He is very socially-oriented, but highly reserved (due to the sensory integration stuff), verbally focused, and his learning styles are analytical and abstract. He works best when he's sitting on a comfortable bed or the couch, surrounded by pictures of his family, his stuffed animal, and his beta fish, Mr. Fishy. He learns things by reciting them - fixing the words in his mind and making verbal connections or mnemonics.

    He's also extremely sensitive - the perfect bait for a bully. Being at home has allowed me to walk him gradually into the world, so that now he can calmly tell me about the boys who pick on him at church or in camp (or even at the park), and he knows how to deal with it. I was able to correct certain tendencies in his personality as they emerged, rather than having to address them when they were big enough problems to attract the attention of a homeroom teacher or playground monitor.

    PJ did not learn to read until just a few months ago. I had him in a phonics program but as he hit roadblocks, would switch up approaches until we hit one that helped him progress. Teachers in a traditional environment (unless we got lucky) would have been freaking out and putting all kinds of pressure on him - and I can guarantee you he would have shut down forever. Our pediatrician said don't sweat it, just keep giving him the opportunity to learn, and he would come around eventually. Then he switched on like a light bulb a few weeks ago and now he's reading ABOVE his grade level!

    In other subjects we can combine pursuing what he likes and "pushing the envelope" on his sensory issues - using the things he enjoys as doorways into expanding his comfort zone. His progress in this respect has been tremendous. I just about cried last year when he did all the equipment in his class at The Little Gym, participated in games which involved getting touched by other children, and even did things like allow himself to be turned upside-down. We wouldn't have time for gymnastics if he were in school, because of our distance from everything.

    Joey is five and a half. I have no doubt he'd be classified as ADHD in a traditional setting. He's brilliant, kinetic, notices everything, says little but moves much, and is impulsive to the point of being out of control. He loves dirt, and playing outside, and climbing things, and animals (the dirtier and nastier the better), and he adores his big brother.

    He's also got a stubborn streak the size of the Mississippi when he thinks he HAS to do something. Nothing makes him run to the contrary faster than thinking he's about to be put in a box. He hates having his choices taken away. He's GOT to have options. His learning style is random and concrete. He works best when he is at a table, with few distractions, but with the option to get up and recite something or read aloud, while walking around. If he can handle something or draw a picture of it, he's got it forever.

    Joey already knows all fifty states, their location, their capitals and a distinguishing characteristic. His brother does too but that's not as impressive in second grade as in kindergarten. [;)]He reads at a second grade level, also. By the way, he only started school three months ago. But he was born into learning as a way of life - it's not really "school" to him, just what we do here.

    Instead of spending an hour on the school bus, then getting marched around like a wee soldier, forced to go here and sit there, be quiet for hours on end, don't touch this, don't wiggle, don't talk - he gets up and spends some time running around doing chores, then we do a few hours of school punctuated with more running around time, and then he's at home already so no bus ride home. Again, I can ease him into doing what is difficult for him, by structuring it around what he loves most - or offering things like computer time in exchange for doing some really difficult thing (like sitting through an entire spelling test).

    Oh, and he's also dysphastic - this is a more serious version of dysplasia which involves spatial and verbal confusion - or "different" perception, as I am told (though I spend my time confused - I have this too - and have yet to find the supposed advantage, lol). He didn't talk until he was nearly three. He still says sentences backwards and of course his writing is attrocious. We've hit a wall on spelling, but remember he's reading and doing work two years above his age level. We've got plenty of time to catch him up there. Again, in a traditional setting he'd be getting hammered on and pressured and he'd probably be in a special ed program. The thing is, he's smart enough to overcome his own handicaps but HE has to figure out how to do it. One whiff of "have to" and you've lost him.

    We've also been able to improve his self control to the point where no one can believe he is ADHD or whatever you'd call it. We've done this by taking small steps and giving him lots of time to get his "ya-yas" out.

    He wants to be a doctor - he's almost certain already. He pursues self-directed studies in the sciences and he LOOOOOVES math.

    Both of them "play school" when they are not actually doing work. They love to read non-school stuff, love to talk about school, are wildly creative, and don't mind when I tell them they can only play on the computer for 30 min each, per day. I take each opportunity to talk to them about not only facts, but health, social behavior, and ethics (recent discussions, why you wouldn't want to do things to mess up your body, like smoking, an important subject here in North Carolina, and another, why we don't kill good bugs). People tell me they are very nice kids - enough people have told me this, that I have begun to believe it! [;)]

    I've been happy with the homeschooling project so far. It will only get better - the first couple years are the most difficult, especially with special needs children. Next year PJ will start a self-directed computer-based curriculum (he can't wait - his computer time is so limited now he thinks it will be a big treat!).

    Homeschooling won't work for everyone but it's almost always possible to make it work. People need to know that this option exists and that the natural state of children is not sitting for eight hours in a hive-like setting.

    And no, I don't have any responsibility to "make" my local schools work, sorry. First they make school compulsory, taking responsibility from the parents, and then they say the problem is not enough involvement from the parents? Meanwhile, all of them are busily indoctrinating the community's children in philosophies totally contrary to my own (our local school explained wicca and encouraged the children to dress up as earth gods and goddesses or witches and warlocks during Halloween), while totally and miserably failing to convey the basics of either acceptable social behavior or the three Rs. I'm glad we don't even pay property taxes directly anymore. No thanks.