Dog Community

feeling like the odd one out here....

Posted : 8/9/2006 9:52:04 AM

I am starting to feel a little ahhh weird here.

I know a lot of people don't get the hunting thing, they don't get the dominance roll thing, folks have their own way of doing things and hey I respect that! If it works for you then so be it!

I feel a little under attack, I honest to goodness grew up on a farm, I honest to goodness grew up learning how to shoot and hunt, I haven't hunted for years but that's because I am busy here with kids, dogs, work hubby that kind of thing. YES I miss it! VERY much!

Why is it hard to believe that I love animals but I like to hunt? Hey I adore new baby calves but I love a good rare steak too! Does that make me crazy? Does it make me a hater of cows? NO! It just means I grew up knowing those baby calves were gonna put food in my mouth one day, so what! It's LIFE! A thing called survival.

How do I explain it?

When a child grows up being taught that this animal needs you to feed it and take care of it but one day we are going to have to kill it so that we may live and eat it becomes a normal way of life to them, they learn that life eventually ends in death and the death of some animals means that they eat and are healthy.

When a child is taught that shooting a gun means something dies guns become not something they fear, but something they respect.

For me this was all normal, we raised cows, pigs, chickens, turkeys, and yes a few geese to eat plain and simple. That was a fact of life. My dad taught me to shoot, unfortunately he passed away when my middle child was 6 months old so he didn't get to teach them how to shoot and hunt, something that makes me sad every time I think about it. Therefore it was left to me to teach this to my children, sadly I have not been able to teach them as well as I was taught, mostly due to residing in town most of my adult life and not having the time to go in the woods with them.

My school, Southern Local, was VERY small; we had 400 kids in the ENTIRE school the year I graduated, that includes grades kindergarten to 12th grade. Most of the kids lived on working farms, most boys and only a small handful of girls went hunting every year at deer and turkey season. These were excused absences. At my school we stood and said the pledge of allegiance EVERY day, we sang the Star Spangled Banner EVERY day, we listened to a prayer from our principal over the loud speaker, we then had three minutes of quite prayer time before starting classes EVERY DAY. Harvest was an excused day off of school; the corkboard in the hallway at my school was filled with 4H stuff and papers asking anyone who had free time over the summer months to bail hay and clean barns, of course they got paid for it too and no they didn't have to be 16.

On one hand I cannot for the life of me understand what is so hard about believing the way I grew up, on the other since my step kids continue to surprise me on their ahhh un-education of farm life, hunting, fishing, cooking from scratch, their repulsion of rare steak baffles me, ect. I can kind of understand it. I often find myself looking at my husband wondering why in the world he never taught his kids to hunt. He enjoys hunting, loved to trap coon as a teen, so why then did he not teach them? He says their mom wouldn't let him and it really didn't occur to him to teach them.

Me? I made sure my girls knew how to shoot, they don't own their own guns but they can break one down, clean it, put it back together and shoot fairly well. They have never gone hunting, they have helped clean a deer, among many 'ewwww's and GROSS! And I'm NOT TOUCHING THAT!' it doesn't bother me, prolly because I have seen this kind of thing my entire life, never occurred to me to be grossed out by it.

Not that there isn't things that don't gross me out, hence I refuse to allow my dogs to eat pig ears and now that I know what a bully stick is they wont be getting one of those either! I kinda get sick when I catch Chubby sneaking into the bathroom trash and digging out the used sanitary napkins to chew on. OHHH BARF!!! I cried when I ran over a cat last year, I didn't mean to do it! Just because I can hunt, just because I am comfortable with killing my food and eating it too doesn't mean I go out there looking to kill animals all the time! My name ain't Rambo ya know!

I am an open and honest type, I don't lie well, I tend to forget what I lied about and hence get caught, and therefore I don't do it.

I am a pretty out going person, happy pretty much all the time, I don't like to dwell on things and if something bugs me or scares me I will confront it head on, hence the reason I am saying something about my feelings of unwelcome here, therefore I don't have a lot of fears.

I love people and animals of all kinds. I get along well with pretty much everyone I meet, hence the reason I am so good at my job at our local Home Depot. However I don't have a whole bunch of folks I call friend. I am pretty choosy about who I invite to my home, I don't consider everyone a friend, just a VERY select few. I love being around people, but I like my solitude as well. To me nothing in this world is like heading off to the woods for a good long hike. To this very day I can spend hours and hours in the woods and feel right at home. I have never gotten lost in the woods either, not even ones I don't know, like I said in another thread I am a pretty good tracker, prolly should have gone into some kind of game warden type job but I chose motherhood instead.

I think I am a simple person, simple in my needs and wants yet hubby says I am the single most complex woman he has ever met. I don't know what he means by that but ahhh well no sense frettin over it.

I don't like big fancy cars; ok I love big fancy pick-up trucks but ahhh well they are beyond my means. I have no desire to own the best looking house in town, all I really want is some falling down old farm house or old barn with a tin roof and I turn it into my home.

My dream is to live in the middle of no mans land, have all the dogs, horses wolf/dogs I can handle and then some. That's not gonna happen so I make due with what I have, an old house that's actually the ugliest one on the street, an OK back yard that I plan to fence in some day, a hubby who adores me and will actually kill himself to make me happy so I tend not to complain, six great kids who sometimes drive me nuts but hey if I didn't have them I'd prolly actually go nuts. I have some wonderful dogs and a future that I happen to think is rather bright. I don't work a fancy high dollar job; neither does my husband. I don't ever want to be rich, money can't buy everything and if I didn't have to work for the things I want then what's the point eh? Often it's a struggle for us to make ends meet, but I honestly don't want an easy way out, mom always said 'that which does not kill us makes us stronger.' I believe in that fully.

I don't want to give my kids everything, I want them to learn to make due. I don't want my kids to never get their heart broken I want them to know the heartache of that and learn from it. I refuse to buy my kids their first car, if they wanna drive then they will earn the money for it themselves. I want them to be independent, and able to stand on their own. I don't understand parents who allow their kids to spend their summers up half the night sleeping over half the day away. Mine? They will go to bed and if they cant get a job because they are too young then they will busy their time volunteering at places, like Brandy does, she works at our local animal shelter, for FREE.

I believe that doing the right thing is at times the hardest thing you will ever have to do, yet I believe there is no excuse in NOT doing the right thing. I believe you must hold true to yourself and your upbringing, family means EVERYTHING! You can not exactly LIKE a family member but you had best respect them and love them.

I believe you should stand up for your country and at all times have the utmost respect for the police and service men and women. They are there to die for you, therefore you should never disrespect them.

Well this is long enough, I am sorry if some here aren't over fond of me, I tell things the way I see them, no I don't know it all, I am still learning and growing and I hope I will STILL be learning and growing when I am 80 years old. If you don't believe me I can't make you believe me. Sorry if you don't agree with things I say, think, believe in, how I was raised whatever. I understand everyone is different, has a different way of doing things, was raised differently thinks differently and all that, I have respect for people in general and if they believe in what they do and it works for them then I say GO FOR IT! Good for them, I have my way you have yours, to each his own, and all that.

probe1957

Posted : 8/9/2006 10:38:32 AM

You have only been on the board for 3 days. I think it is fairly normal to feel "odd" with that limited experience.

Your life experiences sound pretty normal to me and no one here thinks there is anything at all "odd" about me. [

] Hang around. Lighten up just a bit. I really believe you will come to enjoy the place and I am certain your input will be and is currently appreciated.

sillysally

Posted : 8/9/2006 11:12:19 AM

Meh. I eat meat. I had Grandparents who had a farm. I learned quickly that you don't name the cows, because next week you could be having them for dinner.

Although I do not hunt, I have no issue with it, as long as it is done humanely and fairly (although if DH hunted there would be no deer heads on the walls [:-]).

And as far as living out in the middle of nowhere with dogs and horses--I should be so lucky!!

willowchow

Posted : 8/9/2006 11:26:28 AM

No child belongs shooting a gun. My dad hunted when I was a kid, that doesn't mean it was right for me to be doing it. You stated you not only hunted but killed other animals too. Squirrel??

You didn't just use the gun for hunting, you went off at the break of dawn into the wood looking for "wolves". That's what you said in the other thread. And, you took the gun to shoot if you go into trouble.

Sorry, if you feel under attack. But, some of the things you come out with are just not right. And, dangerous. And, far fetched.

Am I supposed to believe that just because you lived on a farm and were taught to use a gun that your parents didn't mind you going into the woods early in the morning before you were even supposed to be done with chores carrying a gun.

Accidents can and do happen with guns all the time.

Debbie R

Posted : 8/9/2006 11:39:40 AM

Oh boy, guess I missed something!
I will go back and read your posts to see what you said to PO everybody though lol
Billy's right the first few days are tough but it will be fine.
You'll have a great support group here and a resource center 24/7
You sound like good people to me.
I used to understand hunting don't anymore, but my nephews and two brothers hunt, so, I love them, I throw in a few jabs, they take them, I'm the oldest and they continue on w/ their lives and me with mine. I do understand the difference in being raised on a working farm and not being raised on a farm.
Maybe we can learn from you and you from us, and have a better understanding all around.
I am reading a book though and I will recommend it with caution, if you are emotionally fragile right now don't read it, but if you aren't take a gander, it's called "The dog that spoke with gods" by Diane Jessup. It gives you two sides to an important and controversial subject.

Terri

Posted : 8/9/2006 11:51:51 AM

I think the great thing about forums such as this one is that they bring so many people together from different parts of the world. You get to learn about other cultures and other ways of thinking. There may be people on the board that don't understand your way of life, but that certainly doesn't make your life wrong. My recommendation is not to let it bother you. Take everyone's comments in stride. And enjoy having discussions with people that share a common interest (ie dogs).

Benedict

Posted : 8/9/2006 11:57:16 AM

Siana,

I am sorry if you feel under attack here - it can take a while to settle in to a forum filled with people who have "known" each other for a long time. I am relatively new myself and while I still don't know many people here very well, there are a few I am now proud to call my friends.

All that being said, in the days since you introduced yourself you have posted some pretty controversial stuff, and this may be the reason you are feeling less than welcomed.

You have advocated, on at least 2 threads that I have seen, the use of alpha rolling and scruffing to discipline dogs. That may work for you, but from what I can tell the majority of people here view those methods as being outdated and dangerous. Certainly the people who will publicly advocate that on this forum are in the minority. One thing I have noticed since joining this forum is how aware most of the members are that there are inexperienced dog owners reading these posts whether they are responding or not. A lurking member who doesn't know any better could read one of your posts, try your methods and get very SERIOUSLY hurt. You are simply unlikely to find an outpouring of support on this issue here.

You have said your dogs travel in the back of your truck with no cap on - that is, I am sorry, downright dangerous.

As for your upbringing and way of life in the country, I for one am not disputing that as fact at all. I have no reason not to believe that these were your experiences, and you have obviously grown into a person who cares for animals likely influenced by your upbringing. That's a great thing. However not everyone here is going to agree with giving a child a gun. This forum is intended for an open exchange of ideas, it is impossible to expect that all of those ideas will be the same.

I am sure you have a lot to offer, and again that I am sorry you feel attacked. This post is not intended to make you feel more so in the slightest....it is an explanation as to why you may possibly be getting less support than you expected to.

Kate

leslie__chessies

Posted : 8/9/2006 12:01:14 PM

I'm originally from Texas. My family hunts, and I see nothing wrong with it if done "correctly". My father taught my brother how to hunt at a young age. He was always accompanied by my father; he was taught gun safety; he was taught how to treat all animals humanely; he was taught responsibility.

My father tried to teach me how to hunt. The first (and last) time he took me, I was around 9 years old. I spent the entire morning crying, "feeding" the dead geese by shoving bread in their beaks. He never took me again.

Siana

Posted : 8/9/2006 12:06:27 PM

ORIGINAL: willowchow

No child belongs shooting a gun. My dad hunted when I was a kid, that doesn't mean it was right for me to be doing it. You stated you not only hunted but killed other animals too. Squirrel??

You didn't just use the gun for hunting, you went off at the break of dawn into the wood looking for "wolves". That's what you said in the other thread. And, you took the gun to shoot if you go into trouble.

Sorry, if you feel under attack. But, some of the things you come out with are just not right. And, dangerous. And, far fetched.

Am I supposed to believe that just because you lived on a farm and were taught to use a gun that your parents didn't mind you going into the woods early in the morning before you were even supposed to be done with chores carrying a gun.

Accidents can and do happen with guns all the time.

First off I got my chores done, there would have been hell to pay had I skipped out on that, second of all I believe I said my mom fretted a lot, didn#%92t say this before but my dad said ‘let the girl be.#%92 He wanted me to experience life to its fullest, he also taught me how to ride dirt bikes, enjoy sliding down the hillside and getting all muddy. Was always there asking me if I learned anything yet when I fell out of yet another tree. I remember him smacking his knees laughing when the goose I was tormenting caught me! YIKES! That HURT!

He built me my first tire swing, taught me to ride horses, had to learn bare back before I was allowed in the saddle, I remember him saying ‘you gotta learn to feel the horse under you and if you cant hold on with nothin there then how ya gonna git on one in the field and ride em in?#%92

He taught me to drive a tractor, and the joys of squishing my bare feet in fresh cow patties. He spent hours with me watching the clouds and just laying there being quiet.

He laughed his butt off when I learned what those pointy things on roosters legs were for, ((their spurs)) then wiped my eyes, and asked me if I was gonna try chasing them any more. I remember him holding me and saying its ok when I freaked out over grandma cutting off the chickens heads and they were flapping around headless some of them SQUAKING! With NO HEADS!

He cleaned my wounds and asked me if I was gonna be a fool with that bike again when I wrecked and mangled my dirt bike. Well no I wasn#%92t because the bike was history, me I was ok, a bit banged up but nothing broken.

He was a hard man, but an honest man, he was the salt of the earth and lord how I loved him!

He taught me to learn from my mistakes and that I always have a choice, he cant stop me in my decisions but he would be there ready to ask me what I learned from them.

To this day I swear I hear his voice when I do something stupid. ‘well girl, was that the smart thing to do, or have ya made yer mind up to it yet?#%92 and as always he would finish it with ‘Whacha learn from it?#%92

He wasn#%92t a tall man, short and stocky, VERY strong, physically as well as mentally and emotionally. He had one flaw, a bad heart, which is what ultimately killed him. He spoke in what a lot would consider ‘hill billy lingo.#%92 He had a slow and steady draw in his dialect that to this very day I find myself echoing when giving my girls a life lesson.

He taught me how to make due with what I had and if I ever had to live off the land.

I think my dad, Bill, provided me with the tools I needed in order to stand on my own two feet. He taught me soooo much, my only regret is he didn#%92t live long enough to teach my own children.

I understand some people don#%92t like guns, some don#%92t understand why anyone would teach a kid how to live off the land, I do and I am damned glad I was taught this. But please, please don#%92t say my dad wasn#%92t right, I have never met anyone so right and wonderful in all my life, I feel blessed to have had him as my father, even if I#%92m not of his blood, I was of his heart.

Willow, please remember I don#%92t want to hammer down anyone#%92s throat anything, I just wanted to share experiences I have had with my dogs and part of that is some of how I was raised. I haven#%92t once said anyone is wrong to do something this way or that way, in fact I don#%92t think I have even said the words I disagree, I have only said this is the way I have done it, or this is what I would do.

Oh almost forgot; Barking the squirrels, most of them we ate, not much meat on one though. Yeah their cute, but they are a nuisance, we kinda looked at them right up there with rats and other vermin. We didn#%92t leave them there to rot. If it was mangled too much to skin and eat we fed them to the dogs.

tashakota

Posted : 8/9/2006 12:10:22 PM

As long as you plan to eat the squirrels, I have no problems with it. I went "hunting" with some friends in college once. They were using squirrels as targeting practice and left the dead ones on the ground. NOT my kind of hunting. Even if they are pesky, they don't deserve to be killed for "sport". I have cousins on the other hand that killed a batch of squirrels, brought them home, skinned them and made soup. Fine with me (not that I would eat it! lol).

And I can believe that you grew up that way. I have cousins, aunts, uncles, that had similar experiences but I doubt they would have been "allowed" to "go hunt wolves" before chores. They would most likely have gotten in trouble for "shirking" their chores.

My mom and her sisters were suppposed to travel over many acres on foot, to bring the cows in in the morning and afternoon before eating themselves. They didn't take guns, but there were bulls in those pastures too.

k.m.a

Posted : 8/9/2006 12:13:36 PM

Well, the only part about your story that I commented on was the fact that you carried dead chickens into the woods, gun in tote (as a kid, unsupervised), and went out looking for wolves. I'm sorry, but that just made me roll my eyes.

I understand the country stuff, though. As I grew up as sort of a country kid myself.

But I've never agreed with hunting. When I was 6 I used to go out with my mother's at-that-time boyfriend. He hunted coyotes for their skins and deer. It was gruesome to me. The whole thing that made me against it was when we realized that one of the coyotes was still breathing, and he stabbed it through the roof of it's mouth infront of me. [

]*shudder*.

tashakota

Posted : 8/9/2006 12:15:28 PM

you carried dead chickens into the woods, gun in tote (as a kid, unsupervised), and went out looking for wolves

Sianna, how old were you when you did this? 6? 13? 14?

probe1957

Posted : 8/9/2006 12:38:40 PM

Okay, I have now read the other thread and now have an understanding of what the "controversy" is all about.

I am a gun owner and an advocate for gun owner's rights. I have taught my three boys to respect guns by teaching them how to use them and showing them the damage they can do. I taught two of my three boys to hunt at a fairly young age. My youngest boy showed no interest in hunting, which I respected. They could go shooting anytime they wanted, as long as I was there to supervise. Since I was really into target shooting, I don't think I ever turned down an opportunity to shoot with my boys.

I did not allow them to hunt or shoot unsupervised until they proved themselves very proficient. Actually, only one boy ever showed any interest in hunting with a friend and not me. I guess he was around 16 when I allowed it for the first time.

I do not agree that kids and guns are a dangerous combination. My kids were never dangerous with a gun. With that said, I would say that MOST kids would be dangerous with a gun, because they haven't been properly trained. For that matter, I believe an untrained adult, with a gun, is dangerous too.

You don't say, or I missed, how old you were when you went traipsing about the woods with a gun, but since a 12 guage shotgun is A LOT of gun, I doubt you were a tiny, feeble, 6 year old. I was probably about 16 before I was comfortable shooting anything with more punch than a 20 guage.

Although I do not share your fascination for wolf hybrids, I see nothing whatever wrong with a PROPERLY trained child carryng a gun for hunting or protection. Is there an element of danger when you combine a kid with a gun? Sure, but there is also an element of danger in a kid with a car or a kid with a skateboard. Everything is relative.

We are, I believe, to a large degree, the product of our upbringing. Not everyone appreciates guns. Not everyone hunts. Our upbringing is a little different than that of many other people here. Different upbringing often results in a difference of opinion about some things. That, I believe, is what we have here, a difference of opinion. Personally, I respect people who have a different opinion than mine, no matter how wrong they might be. [

]

I don't think anyone was intending to disrespect you. Maybe I am wrong, but that's how I see it. There is no reason, based on what I have seen, for you to feel like the odd man out. You see, the people I think are odd are the people who have never killed their own food and who think a steak comes from the grocery store. [

]

Siana

Posted : 8/9/2006 12:43:18 PM

ORIGINAL: tashakota

you carried dead chickens into the woods, gun in tote (as a kid, unsupervised), and went out looking for wolves

Sianna, how old were you when you did this? 6? 13? 14?

Well, allowed to use the gun on my own I guess I was 8? Maybe 9? I went off into the woods ALL the time by myself for as long as I can recall.

Oh the looking for wolves, I didn#%92t want to hurt them I wanted to catch one! LOL! But we don#%92t have wolves around here, mom said so I don#%92t know how many times but I was determined I would FIND them!

glenmar

Posted : 8/9/2006 12:44:41 PM

I think that we would do well to remember that even in the richest nation in the world there are still folks living in unbelievable poverty. There are still folks who have DIRT floors, yes in THIS country, no furnace, no inside bathroom, and by golly that they SEND their kids to school is a credit to them because a lot of them distrust authority of any kind. I did some volunteer work when I lived in WV and went into some of the worst kind of poverty imaginable....in WV and in Ohio as well. I felt that I'd been transplanted into a 3rd world country. It still exists. And whats normal and natural for US is not for folks who live that way.