Another Town Passes Vicious Dog Ordinance

i think you re getting the wrong message from me.  i dont doubt there are dogs of those breeds that are safe, sweet, gentle dogs.  i dont dislike all dogs of the breeds.  i have already stated i know there are good and bad dogs in every breed.  i just believe on the whole, because of their mass and powerful jaws, and the large number of attacks ( and yes i consider labs dangerous too as they have been mauling a lot lately)  they are dangerous.  maybe its not the breeds fault, maybe its the owner (probably true in a lot of cases), the point is, either way, the danger is still there.
 
i do appreciate you sharing your story though.  i wonder if the same thing could happen with a dog who had been trained to fight successfully. 

I grew up with a Mother who basically was afraid of any and all dogs....especially "police dogs" as she has always called german shepherds.  My Dad grew up on a farm and had a love and respect for all animals (except chickens....too many Sunday dinners I'm thinking).  Fortunately for me, Dad's love and respect for critters passed on to me and not Mother's fear.
 
I've told this story many times before so anyone who has already seen it, be prepared for your eyes to glaze over....Mom was visiting...DH, Mom and I were out for a drive and stopped so I could visit with a horse who was just begging for company.  As I got out of the van, the resident dogs started barking....the cocker didn't come to the fence, the pittie did.  Now, I'm terrible with breeds and hadn't a clue that the dog running to me was a pittie.  I correctly read his body language, determined that I didn't need to leap back into the van and had a very nice visit with this little pit bull.  Meanwhile DH and Mom were in the van in rather bad need of a bathroom because THEY knew it was a pittie.  But this dog was practically turning inside out because he was so excited at making a new friend.
 
Yep, a GOOD pittie can look a bit scarey because they are a well muscled dog.  A german shepherd can LOOK scarey because they are big and muscular but in a different way, same for rotties and dobbies.  All of these dogs have taken their turn on the top of the "most viscious" list and struck terror in hearts because of a FEW bad owners, and a FEW bad breeders.  I've met one shar pei in my lifetime and based on him, I would believe that shar peis are sweet babies.  His mom tells me that Big is NOT an example of the breed because they do tend to be very dog agressive and very protective.  Heck, I met Big in a rest area, greeting him by name and squatted down and he was almost in my lap!  Then I introduced him to not one but two of my german shepherd fosters and he was wonderful with them.  So wonderful that they both went home with him and his mom.
 
I guess I'm just dog stupid.  I don't KNOW all this stuff about how dangerous some dogs are supposed to be, so that doesnt get in the way of my judging each animal as an individual.  When I met the pittie, I'd heard a few things about their supposed agression.  I could tell by his body language that he was doing his job but meant me no harm.  But if I weren't dog stupid, I guess I might have been afraid just based on his breed.  And, I would have missed a wonderful interaction with a great dog.
 
The one dog I've been bitten by, other than my own when I got in the middle of a conflict, was a "trained guard dog"...a gsd who lived in my apartment complex many years ago.  Now I own 6 gsds.  They are the BIGGEST babies on the face of the planet.  But, that first gsd did some serious damage to my shoulder and even after plastic surgery and 30 years, the scars are still visable.
 
I guess my point, that I've taken so long to get to, is to NOT judge any dog by it's breed, but by it's individual termperment and personality.  If you're a first time owner, certainly stay away from the breeds that you fear and select a wonderful little mutt.  Any purebred that you find in the shelter, is probably NOT well bred...good breeders have a take back clause in their contracts and chip their pups before they go to new homes and would immediately claim "their" pup.  I'd sooner go with a mutt from the shelter than a purebred from a backyard breeder who has been dumped in the shelter.
 
Often, the smaller the dog, the more nervous it's going to be, especially around little kids with all the funny noises and jerky motions they make.  And while puppies are great, you have to factor in the lack of socialization they get in the shelter, the housetraining and the inevitable nipping that is perfectly normal puppy behavior, but magnified if they are nipping your children.  And you have to train not only the pup, but you've gotta train your children as well.  They have to be TAUGHT that the pup or dog is a living breathing being and not a live stuffed animal that they can drag around by the ears or the tail.  They have to learn to respect the animal, and no child under 10 should ever be left unsupervised with ANY dog.
 
I apologize for going so far off topic.  But I hope that I've opened your mind just a bit to some of the "dangerous" breeds.
 
 

Jaye I respect how you feel about dogs but basing a fear or opinion on size can be very misleading.  Horses are very large animals and can easily harm a human, should they all be banned?  What about cows?  There are very large breeds of dogs that are used for various jobs throughout the world, where their size is what is needed.  I'm thinking St Bernard, Great Pyrenees, Bernese Mt Dog...  all these dogs are much larger than pits, GSD's and dobies, should they be included? 

The road I drive everyday to work has had 4 fatalities this year alone in vehicles, should we ban all vehicles?  

And as others have said, it's not the dogs, but the owners.  Through purposeful mischeif or ignorance in training.  So laws should address people, not dogs.

 i think you missed my main point.  that is that if a large dog attacks your kid when you re walking down the street or whatever, you're probably not going to be able to get the dog of your kid (or yourself), at least not me, im a somewhat short girl.  but you would be able to stop a small dog.  ive already stated many times that i realize all dogs can bite and that there are good and bad dogs in every breed.

So you think all large dogs should be banned because you're afraid of them?

My dear, you've never been bitten by a cocker if you think you can get one off.  Hubby needed SURGERY to repair the hand damage when he tired to break up a cocker fight.  She didn't bite him on purpose, but bite him she did.

sillysally, i never said im afriad of all large.  please read my posts again with an open mind and see what im actually saying.  you dont have to agree with it, but dont put your own spin on it.

Well if a crazy horse got loose and wanted to kill you, you'd be hard pressed to stop it from doing so.  The reason that never happens is because most, if not all, horses are kept in stalls or pastures with fences and they are kept there by responsible owners.  And I've met some pretty mean horses that would just as easily bite or kick you if you didn't watch out.  It's just easier for humans to have a dog than a horse because you would certainly get in trouble for keeping a horse in your backyard.  Or letting it wander loose.  Plus it's easier to hide a dog... 

You may think I'm being totally stupid by comparing horses to dogs but it all comes back to the owners of those animals.  Serious things happen when you involve another life form that can think on its own and it's up to the humans responsible for that animal to maintain it and keep it from causing problems for others.

glenmar you just gave an example of a dog that accidentally bit someone once and stopped, im talking about when a dog attacks to kill, it keeps biting and you cant stop it.  and yeah the only dog ive ever been bitten by was a tiny thing, i cant remember what it was, i was about 6 or 7.  it bit me once and stopped, i cant remember why. 
 
tasha, if horses went around killing people im sure i would be in favor to ban them too!  but the fact is, they dont.  for whatever reason it doesnt matter.  they dont kill people.
 
 

But they have!  That's the point.  Horses have, in the past, present and I'm sure will in the future, kill people.  You don't see them running loose because people that own them are responsible about it.  That's one of the main problems with dogs that attack people or accidentally kill people.  The owners let the dogs into a situation where that could happen.  Plus it's really easy to get and keep a dog.  Inhalants kill people all the time too.  Lots of things kill/injure people all the time.  Do we ban all those?  No, we add labels, warn people to keep out of reach of pets/children but we don't ban them.  My BF cut open his thumb with a circular saw.  We still have it.  He required stitches and I thought he'd cut his thumb off!  So it all comes down to people being responsible because all these things are not inherently dangerous, it's how humans use/raise/train them.

[8|] There is no spin, but I can't imagine why you would want no large dogs in this country unless you are afraid of them.

So you ARE in favor of banning all dogs over a certain weight then?

BTW, if you don't think that horses kill people, then you have obviously NOT been around horses. Dogs can bite you. horses can kill you in a variety of ways--kicking, trampling, striking, crushing, bucking, rearing. They are large and dangorous animals--there is a reason that EVERY state in the union has liabailty laws stating that it inherantly dangorous just to be AROUND them. More people have been killed in horse related insidents than dog related. Heck, a horse can kill you indirectly--there was a woman in Florida who was lounging her horse (an activity you do on the ground) and the horse spooked and she was dragged into farm machinery and killed.

ETA--I have actually had more horse aggression related injuries (NOT accidents)--bites, kicks, strikes, even a trampling (these all happened when I was NOT riding the horse) than I have dog related injuries, and I'm around dogs all the time--go figure.

I say lets start banning certain breeds!! It would be great! Get the goverment to start to ban certain breeds that cause problems. Yeeeeeeah!!!! Then maybe it will escalate to ban certain cats that cause problems. And maybe then from banning animals they can start banning certain vehicles from being driven b/c they cause more deaths. Who cares about peoples rights and freedom of choice!?? Lets just ban everything that *might* be a problem instead of punishing the people that casue the problems!!!
 
Whos with me??!!
 

I'm coming in late on this whole BSL discussion, but I do have an opinion.
 
Personally, I think BSL is an easy out for legislators.  And for society as a whole.  We don't want to point the finger at ourselves, so instead we point it at the animals and hold them responsible, and punish them as a breed.
 
Which, in and of itself, is complete maddness and quite illogical IMO.
 
If we, as a society, want to stop the majority of these attacks, then we need to act responsibly.  WE need to act responsibly.  And we need to do so in an intellegent manner.  IMO, there are one of two culprits for a dog attack.  The owner...or the victim.  If an owner commands a dog to attack, the dog is going to follow through with that.  And its no fault of the dog's.  He's doing what his MASTER told him to do.  The owner is at the top of the hierarchy.  The dog responds to what he's been taught, or not taught, by his master.
 
And sometimes, disaster strikes because of a bad decision made at the hands of the victim.
 
Take, for example, an experience I had last summer.  I was out in my yard doing some gardening.  I got thirsty and ran into the house for a split second to grab a drink out of the fridge.  Our dog was confined to our backyard.  When I came back, a neighbor from a few streets over was in my backyard with her twins (3 years old) petting my dog.
 
Now, my dog has never shown any semblance of aggression.  She's been trained well and she knows her place when it comes to people.  But still, she is a dog.  Not a human.  How she perceives a situation could be entirely different than a person would perceive the same situation. 
 
The neighbor looked at me and said, "The boys just wanted to pet the dogs.  We were going for a walk and saw her from the street.  I hope you don't mind that we came into the backyard."  I told her that, in fact, I DID mind.  That I didn't think it was ever a smart move for her to teach her kids that its ok to just walk into a strange yard and confront a dog.  How does she know my dog would react well? How does she know that my dog WOULDN'T consider her an intruder and defend her territory and me?  It was careless, at best, and not a good habit to instill in her kids.  Then I let her know that the children were welcome to play with my dog anytime they wanted.  But she had to ask me first, so that I can assure I was there to supervise our dog.
 
This is the kind of careless that could EASILY have led to a disaster.  People need to be educated.  Non-dog owners need to have an understanding of how the canine mind works and how you need to interact with an animal.  And pet owners need to be vigilant.  Just because good 'ole Sparky hasn't bitten anyone in the 9+ years of his life doesn't mean he'll never wind up in a situation that he perceives as threatening and choose to defend himself.
 
Children should NEVER be left unattended with a dog until they are old enough to handle that dog and KNOW fully how to manage the dog.
 
Owners must remain in control of their pets at all times.  They should only be off-leash or outside of a fenced in, controlled area in situations where the owner is confident that they still have COMPLETE control over that dog.  And I don't care how great your dog is.  Never make the assumption that your dog would "never do such a thing."  People make the same poor assumptions with unruly children and look how well that tends to turn out.
 
It is OUR responsibility as a society to provide safety to people and pets alike.  The burden of responsibility should not be placed on an animal.  And until we are willing to point the fingers at ourselves, nothing will change.

Incidently, I have recieved two VERY nasty bites from my mom's cat--one caused blood to spurt halfway up me arm--that was nice...

sillysally can you post some evidence that supports your statement that horses kill more people than dogs?
 
prince_pride, its not that it *might* be a problem.  it IS a problem, and thats why people are concerned.  im talking about prevention, not punishment.  how are you going to stop the bad people from mishandling their dogs?  there is no way because we dont know who will mishandle and who wont.  punishing someone after their dog kills a kid is too late, because the harms already done.  i do agree that there should be much harsher punishments for people like that.  but its not going to bring the kid back.