never mind!

When we were evacutated from my sister's house due to flooding, we stayed at her friend's house briefly (less than 48 hours.)  She has cats and children and white carpets.  My sister had two untrained dogs, one of whom would be a cat-killer if given a chance.  We were grateful to stay in her house overnight and the dogs did not suffer being together in the garage with blankets and toys.  Maybe because all three of them were once shelter dogs, so sleeping on a concrete floor wasn't a big deal (??).  But for one night, I was thankful that someone was willing to take in two adults and three dogs, even if the dogs had to be in the garage, because I know it disrupted their personal time and space to accommodate us, even as briefly as 48hours.

Everyone has their own baggage -- and for some folks that includes having been traumatized by an animal or having it drummed/beat/hammered into them as a child that animals are filthy, dirty, unclean, and unhealthy and NEVER let one in your house or you'll "never get the smell out". 

Not true, you may cry -- but that's the frame of reference your MIL comes from.  You can't change her by resenting her.  But making sure that your dog doesn't cause a problem -- THAT can do more to helping her see she may be inaccurate than anything else.

There is a prevalent thing "in the South" that dogs MUST be outside.  Not in my house ... but I know a lot of people who would duel to the death over that because it's nice weather most of the year and many rural people just plain think a dog "belongs" outside. 

I don't have to pick them for my best friend and I might think they are sincerely wrong -- in fact I might not have much in common with them, but I can't project negative feelings on them because I don't know what has caused them to feel that way.

I know Misty has some issues with being restrained -- but honestly?  This is why the **FIRST** thing that happens to ANY dog that comes into our home (foster or permanent) - they get crate trained. 

Even if we humans don't sleep for two weeks -- the dog gets crate trained.  Humanely -- desensitized.  They learn a crate is a great place for yummy treats, they don't get bothered, they eat in there, and sleep in there and they don't get out if they act like a jerk.  But they do learn.  If they don't like a hard plastic crate we go with a wire one ... or a soft one -- or whatever is "different" enough to desensitize. 

Then .. when we go to a motel, hotel or someone's house -- my dog is a welcome guest because my dog can sleep anywhere.  I might sleep with them in the garage -- but if it was the only option I'd do it gladly and thank them.  Because I'd rather leave with them thinking "Wow -- her dog never made any noise -- and I sure didn't have to clean up after it" than "That dog trashed my bedroom and I'll never forgive her for the chew marks on the bed". 

Make sense?

And by the way -- when we go home to visit my parents?  We stay in a motel.  Even with no dogs with us.  It's easier.  We sleep better.  Everyone stays happier.  I'll pay for my night's sleep   And not have to pay in "blood" because I woke someone up at 3 a.m. because I dared to flush a toilet!  *sigh*

I would never judge somebody else for their likes/dislikes, for sure.

But I may differ from folks in that I will not outright exclude my dogs if somebody comes to visit who isn't fond of dogs. With the exception of a few situations (people with babies, get togethers in which alcohol may be involved, Gaci's fear of strangers, when training door greetings), I don't "put my dogs away" when somebody comes. The dogs are my family, and it is our house, and if folks don't like that than they are welcome to invite me to their house. But I won't segregate my own dogs because somebody else doesn't love them. Since I work full-time I value the time that I have before and after work, and I'll be d*mned if somebody expects me to keep my dogs in another room in my own house because they don't love them. I wouldn't go to someone else's house and tell them to keep their children in the basement until I leave, so I'm not about to change my lifestyle and what I love either.

Because of Gaci, it's easier for me to have a "go to bed" cue when folks arrive so she doesn't deal with folks at the door, and so they can come in and get settled. But generally at some point they all come back out, although Gaci is often more comfortable being tucked away in the bedroom so she doesn't have to deal with others.

 I tend to feel sad for the person more than anything else.  Animals are and always have been such an integral part of my life so it is hard for me to imagine living a life without that sort of connection.  It still surprises me when I discover say a new friend or acquaintance has grown up never knowing the joys of a pet.  I don't care what the critter is, I simply feel everyone should have the gift of an animal in their life, especially as a child.

Outside of that I try my best to respect other peoples' boundaries when it comes to animals.

miranadobe

What I find MUCH more often are people who own dogs who say "I hate kids".... I find owning dogs to be not completely dissimilar to taking care of children in the sense of it being a big responsibility, showing another living being how to live within the lifestyle you have chosen, teaching proper behavior, addressing medical care and expenses, the total dependancy on you to provide food/shelter/care/love, etc.  So it trips me out how many people say "I hate kids" when they own dogs.  It makes me wonder what their relationships are like with their dogs... But then again, it may just be the difference between your OWN dogs/kids/pets and dealing with someone else's!

 

I don't hate kids, plan on having them, but I feel like when you're married and of a certain age and don't have kids, the assumption is that you "hate kids".  Lately not a day goes by where I don't have to explain my personal lifestyle and priorities to someone on why I don't currently have kids (this is not directed at you at all, just a general rant, having just moved to a new neighborhood!).  One of the reasons I don't have kids is because I have dogs.  My lifestyle revolves around dogs and I'm not ready to give that up.  I know it is unrealistic to train and trial/compete on the level I am used to and have a family.  I don't do anything halfway.  I like my life the way it is right now.  Kids would be a complete lifestyle overhaul and when we have them it will be because we are ready to make that change, not because of pressure or it being the "thing" to do.

I think I'm actually more put off when someone says "I hate kids" than if they hate dogs.  I guess I don't understand how someone can "hate" an entire grouping of animals/people, especially children.

Well, I guess there may be some confusion here because Misty IS crate trained, and obviously when she sleeps, she would be in her crate and out of harm's way in the garage. BUT...what about the time-frame from 3pm when we arrive, till bed time, and then after she gets up in the morning, until we leave in the afternoon???? She is already extremely nervous and gets very anxious in different situations, and I would never consider keeping her in a crate for almost 24 hours. While she doesn't make a peep in her crate here at home, and even goes in there willingly to nap and chew toys, I guarantee she would howl and carry on if she were crated in an old dirty garage, not from being in the crate, but from being away from us, which in turn would not go over well with his mom. This would mean my husband and I would also be relegated to spending time in the garage. Not cool. We will tell her we're staying at my dad's house, and never speak of it again. Also, I didn't mean that I would ever be mean to his mom, I just have a hard time really relating to her I guess. I expected that she might agree to her staying in the basement (finished 70's style, but at least better than a dirty old garage) so I was kind of shocked at the garage arrangement. I can't especially relate to people who hate children either. Again, not that I'm mean, and I don't hate them for it. When I said I don't like or respect people who hate animals, I meant more along the lines of: I wouldn't really prefer to seek out their friendship or company. I find that I have more in common with animal lovers on many levels. My daughter has a friend who is nervous around dogs because his mom taught him to be scared of them, so I always crate Misty when he comes over. I will do the same whenever my MIL comes to visit (which probably won't be often...long story) since I know she doesn't like dogs either, but that doesn't mean I'll be thrilled about it. It's interesting to me, some of the responses I got, because I remember years ago on a different forum, I once mentioned that we tried crating our other dog (she passed away from the tainted dog food) in the garage because she cried and howled at night, and people were extremely harsh and judgmental with me over that. When I type, I usually write with the feelings that are coming from inside me. Last night, I was feeling stressed, upset, extremely PMS-y and frustrated. Possibly, I don't come off saying exactly what I want to, especially since it's subject to each person's interpretation. Guess I'll wait another 6 months or a year to pop in the next time I have a question...sigh. Incidentally, please excuse my squished together paragraphs. We have Google Chrome and it always does that on this message board.

Liesje

I don't hate kids, plan on having them, but I feel like when you're married and of a certain age and don't have kids, the assumption is that you "hate kids".  Lately not a day goes by where I don't have to explain my personal lifestyle and priorities to someone on why I don't currently have kids (this is not directed at you at all, just a general rant, having just moved to a new neighborhood!).

It always interests me how people seem to think you should rush into children once you are hooked up.  My parents waited 15 years into their marriage before they decided they were in the right place and mindset for kids.  Lol apparently by then my one grandmother who was desperately awaiting a grandchild had finally given up hope.

miranadobe

What I find MUCH more often are people who own dogs who say "I hate kids".... I

 

That's me.  I don't care for kids... don't think I'll ever have any.  Not that they aren't great for those that do want them, I just find dogs to be MUCH less demanding than children.

 

miranadobe

I find owning dogs to be not completely dissimilar to taking care of children in the sense of it being a big responsibility, showing another living being how to live within the lifestyle you have chosen, teaching proper behavior, addressing medical care and expenses, the total dependancy on you to provide food/shelter/care/love, etc.

Which is why most people agree with you Paige and find my statement odd, they don't see that dogs are kids are dissimilar, and I agree to an extent.... and think I'd make an excellent mother based on my love for my dogs.  But, I don't agree.  I don't have patience for children, screaming, demanding, pooping machines .... and we aren't talking about for the 2 or 3 months it MAY take you to house train a dog, we are talking about YEARS.  Bleck!!  Scares me to think about that much commitment to poop and screaming.  

 And on topic, I think people who don't like animals odd, but then again based on what I just said people would probably find me odd :) So, it's hard to judge. LOL

Well, YOU, Lani, I know are a special kind of speshul!    No, seriously, you are actually more the norm in dogdom than you may think.  What I was calling out was just how common it is for me to hear that friends/associates I know who own dogs would rather not ever dedicate their lives to children.  I tend to agree with your associates that you likely would make a very good mom, but that's nobody's choice but yours, and I completely respect that it is not on your agenda. 

Again, I think it goes back to "what sort of responsibilities do you want to take on as a result of caring for another living being."  Kids come with a whole HOST of other responsibilities, expectations, duration of care, potential impact on the world ... than a dog does! 

Sera_J

Scares me to think about that much commitment to poop and screaming.  

So maybe that's the reason!  lol  Plus, I suppose you can't choose your "breed traits" as easily with kids!!  "I want one who is easily potty trained, learns quickly, doesn't bark... er,I mean scream a lot, is biddable, athletic, and will go hunting with me on the weekends..."

Lisa, were there posts you found offensive? I don't understand why you deleted your original post and want to wait 6 months before posting again. If my response was upsetting, I apologize - that was not my intention.

Personally, I find the forum helpful because pretty much no matter what I post, I will get responses that disagree with what I think/believe. I find this of great value, because it acts as a "reality check" and helps me evaluate whether or not I want to change my opinions/beliefs/behaviors. Sometimes, though, I know it can be difficult to "hear" people disagreeing with you if it feels like you're under attack. I don't think anyone meant any unkindness here, there were simply differences in opinions.

Liesje

  

I don't hate kids, plan on having them, but I feel like when you're married and of a certain age and don't have kids, the assumption is that you "hate kids".  Lately not a day goes by where I don't have to explain my personal lifestyle and priorities to someone on why I don't currently have kids (this is not directed at you at all, just a general rant, having just moved to a new neighborhood!).  One of the reasons I don't have kids is because I have dogs.  My lifestyle revolves around dogs and I'm not ready to give that up.  I know it is unrealistic to train and trial/compete on the level I am used to and have a family.  I don't do anything halfway.  I like my life the way it is right now.  Kids would be a complete lifestyle overhaul and when we have them it will be because we are ready to make that change, not because of pressure or it being the "thing" to do.

I think I'm actually more put off when someone says "I hate kids" than if they hate dogs.  I guess I don't understand how someone can "hate" an entire grouping of animals/people, especially children.

I'm right there with you. All of my siblings have kids and I am the black sheep of the family because I have dogs instead of kids. That is my choice, and someday I may be ready for kids. But not now. Right now, I'm happy with my dogs and all of the adventures we get to have with out the responsibility of children. If I want to take off on a long weekend with my dogs and my hubby, I can. No worries about kids napping schedules, diapers, any of that. We spend so much of our summer a dock dogs events and I know it would be virtually impossible with kids. We're happy with where we're at now, and I wish people could respect that.

 

But, I certainly don't judge those for having kids instead of dogs or whatever. Thats their choice, not mine.

lisa4kids1pup

another 6 months or a year to pop in the next time I have a question...sigh.

 

Why? No ones response were offensive, IMO.

miranadobe

Well, YOU, Lani, I know are a special kind of speshul!

 

Hahahaha -- well, that's most certainly true! ;) LOL

miranadobe

"I want one who is easily potty trained, learns quickly, doesn't bark... er,I mean scream a lot, is biddable, athletic, and will go hunting with me on the weekends..."

 

If I could do that... I'd order up a set of kids like my neighbors children, and I may consider it.  But, knowing my luck I'll end up with a couple of demon spawns, so I'll pass!! :)

Lisa - I'm with the others, I'm a bit confused why you felt the need to delete your OP and not want to come back for 6 - 12 months?  If you feel more comfortable PM'ing me or Paige, I will speak for us both, we'd really like to hear what happened!  

miranadobe

Well, YOU, Lani, I know are a special kind of speshul!    No, seriously, you are actually more the norm in dogdom than you may think.  What I was calling out was just how common it is for me to hear that friends/associates I know who own dogs would rather not ever dedicate their lives to children.  I tend to agree with your associates that you likely would make a very good mom, but that's nobody's choice but yours, and I completely respect that it is not on your agenda. 

Again, I think it goes back to "what sort of responsibilities do you want to take on as a result of caring for another living being."  Kids come with a whole HOST of other responsibilities, expectations, duration of care, potential impact on the world ... than a dog does! 

Sera_J

Scares me to think about that much commitment to poop and screaming.  

So maybe that's the reason!  lol  Plus, I suppose you can't choose your "breed traits" as easily with kids!!  "I want one who is easily potty trained, learns quickly, doesn't bark... er,I mean scream a lot, is biddable, athletic, and will go hunting with me on the weekends..."

 

LOL, I had the best of both worlds.  I didn't want kids because I found out early on that if a dog and a kid got into a difficult situation the dog was going to lose.  I vowed, at age 7, that I would never lose another dog because of an a&&hole kid.  Fortunately, Mike's kids were used to being around their grandma's animals by the time they got here, and were great with my dogs.  It would have been a deal breaker had they not been.  But, I'm lucky - I had a great guy who loved me to pieces and two great boys who are now men, but still in my life:-)  I don't hate kids, but I certainly can identify with not wanting any, and not wanting to hold every baby that gets thrust at me (ew).  I like my grandson, but they can keep the rest until the sour milk smell goes away:-)))

Krissim Klaw

Liesje

I don't hate kids, plan on having them, but I feel like when you're married and of a certain age and don't have kids, the assumption is that you "hate kids".  Lately not a day goes by where I don't have to explain my personal lifestyle and priorities to someone on why I don't currently have kids (this is not directed at you at all, just a general rant, having just moved to a new neighborhood!).

It always interests me how people seem to think you should rush into children once you are hooked up.  My parents waited 15 years into their marriage before they decided they were in the right place and mindset for kids.  Lol apparently by then my one grandmother who was desperately awaiting a grandchild had finally given up hope.

I was asked just the other day by my hairdresser if DH and I were planning on "starting a family" soon. My immediate reaction was to find that a very odd question - just because we do not have kids does not mean we are not a family. We are our own family, me, DH and the critters. I get annoyed with society's whole "life progression" view too - settle down, get married, buy a house, have kids, etc. It just seems weird to me. DH's family is certain that one must have kids or their life isn't complete - this view creeps me out a bit. In my family, I have two...possibly more Aunts and Uncles who have chosen not to have kids and are perfectly happy with their lives. DH and I have discussed children at length before we got married - I would be perfectly happy never having them as I do not care for children (I don't *hate* them, I just, in a very very general sense, do not really care for children) but DH loves kids and wants some of his own. We've agreed on having one child of our own and seeing what happens with that. I am sure that I will love my own child and I have started to come around and even kind of want my own - but I will never be the kind of person that goes crazy over babies or other people's "adorable" children.