So I left my info with the shelter

Beejou

this is flat out aggression. Tail up ears back teeth bared growling hair on end.

Honestly, I wouldn't be so quick to label that behavior "aggressive."  That is, at least in our house, pretty normal play behavior.  If you didn't know any better, you would think that Bevo & Cher are about to kill each other, even though they are only playing.  It is so loud/looks so bad, that I do not allow them to play in front of new people because people will mistake their play style with aggression. 

Beejou, since you said previously this is a high kill shelter, have you tried contacting any Dobe rescues to see if they can take him?   

 

BEVOLASVEGAS

Beejou

this is flat out aggression. Tail up ears back teeth bared growling hair on end.

Honestly, I wouldn't be so quick to label that behavior "aggressive."  That is, at least in our house, pretty normal play behavior.  If you didn't know any better, you would think that Bevo & Cher are about to kill each other, even though they are only playing.  It is so loud/looks so bad, that I do not allow them to play in front of new people because people will mistake their play style with aggression. 

 

It could be aggression, but it could simply be fear or uncertainty combined with arousal.  

Since I can't see the interaction, I can't comment as to whether it's aggressive or not, but one of the clearest ways to tell is to gently remove the "aggressor" and see if T-Bone goes back to him for more play.  If so, it's probably not a big deal, even if it looks horrible.  If you can video, I'm happy to weigh in on what I think is going on.  However, I'm going to weigh in and say that I think it's not a great idea for a relatively inexperienced handler (at least in terms of dog to dog aggression) to foster large, unknown, working group breeds in a home where one of the adults is fearful of dogs, or where you are risking a serious mishap that you are ill equipped to deal with if something goes on.  It might be better to foster the less DA breeds for a while to get some experience, or do puppies.  You have to consider whether this will eventually do some damage to T-Bone's psyche if you make wrong choices.  You don't want him to learn that he cannot trust you to protect him because you keep bringing aggressive dogs into the home to terrorize him (not saying that's what's happening, just that it could).

I think at this point, it doesn't matter much whether it is real dog aggression or not.  Even if it's not, there's the possibility the Dobe or T-bone or both may show more aggression later since neither are near maturity yet and both are breeds that tend towards male aggression.  What worries me more is that you and your husband are stressed and your husband is scared.  I think there is too much stress in the environment and it's not fair for the dogs but especially you guys.  You shouldn't have to live like that.  I don't think anyone would think badly if you chose re-home the Dobe or get him into a rescue. Otherwise there needs to be a game plan that involves appropriate means of separation without T losing any of his current space/privilege and devoting a lot of time and energy to the Dobe without shortchanging T.  Honestly I gave up on the possibility of fostering or taking in shelter dogs with baggage a long time ago because some of my dogs have so much energy and we don't have the space to do separations and keep everyone happy and calm.  I think it's admirable you are trying to help the Dobe.

I was in a similar situation once.  There was an emaciated female GSD mix in the shelter a county over which is a high kill shelter that is nothing more than a lean-to building often with dogs crammed into rabbit cages.  I felt a lot of pressure to go pull this dog and offered to pull the dog and help with transport.  Then I got a call from the shelter that someone was coming to "adopt" the dog and intended to chain the dog outside their trailer as a "guard dog".  This shelter has so little funding that the manager would lose her job for turning down and adopter, so she called us and begged us to pull the dog early before this guy came back for her.  We'd already seen the dog at the shelter and observed that she was very gentle and friendly towards people and other dogs.  We took her home and all hell broke loose immediately.  I was supposed to vet the dog the next day and hold her for 4 days until the transport came.  I ended up leaving her at the vet's to be boarded there because she was out to injure any dog that even looked at her and my dogs were literally becoming ill from the stress and nearly turning on each other even though we only had the dog for 12 hours.  It ended up working out because she calmed down while in boarding, having her own dog run and lots of vet techs to dote on her.  She was positive for an intestinal bug and they were able to treat her while in boarding.  I felt terrible leaving her there, thinking it would damage her going from a shelter run to the dog run at the vet's but she was actually very comfortable (whereas at my house, she was trying to rip out of the crate or through the wall to get at my other dogs).  I still would not label her dog aggressive.  I think because she was ill and thrown into new circumstance she had her guard WAY up.  The transport moved her to a foster situation where she gained weight and worked on her behavior before being permanently adopted.  I still do pulls and transports but now have a rule that no matter how the dog looks or acts in the shelter I will not bring one home because it isn't safe or fair for my current dogs.  If I had land or a huge house or kennels, maybe, but it just doesn't work with our current circumstance, at least not with trying to combine German Shepherd dogs (I have found a few stray dogs and taken them home while locating the owner and these were all smaller breeds that were totally fine, one little guy even slept on our bed overnight).

Tbone cries and paces when they are seperated and is clingy. Dobe just tries to get at him. Dobe was not like this to this extent with in laws female... Ive contacted two Dobe rescues. The idea was to foster him and not adopt him even though the shelter tried again and again to have us straight up adopt. Because of what happened with Trinket I didnt want that. Im trying to be wiser... He really is an awesome guy...he is so playful and silly and sweet to me... But around food and tbone it changes. He goes to serious and tense. Around food he hovers around his bowl muscles stiff and still as a statue. If you walk by his feeding area he runs over and guards even when the bowl is up. How can an eight month old pup have these issues? DH and I are fighting about what o do. Since he was attacked by the pit bull he cant tolerate aggression.

spiritdogs

BEVOLASVEGAS

Beejou

this is flat out aggression. Tail up ears back teeth bared growling hair on end.

Honestly, I wouldn't be so quick to label that behavior "aggressive."  That is, at least in our house, pretty normal play behavior.  If you didn't know any better, you would think that Bevo & Cher are about to kill each other, even though they are only playing.  It is so loud/looks so bad, that I do not allow them to play in front of new people because people will mistake their play style with aggression. 

 

It could be aggression, but it could simply be fear or uncertainty combined with arousal.  

Given the breed involved, & the fact that he will, likely, be going back to a high kill shelter, labelling him "aggressive" will likely be a death sentence.  It seems a bit premature, to me, for an inexperienced person to make such an assesment.

Amanda... I very much value your opinion and know you have great experience with the breed. I dont really know what to do... I will stop calling it aggression then if it is a bold assumption and its my inexperience talking. It seems Im doing more harm than good unfortunately.

I'm wondering whether the agression and food guarding could have been from him being in the shelter or his previous home?  I mean, at least the agression, maybe from being at the bottom of the so-called totem pole, and then now seeing himself in a new situation, feels the need to over compensate, per se, to make himself the "alpha"?

and maybe the food agression because maybe where he was before, shelter or home, maybe he wasn't fed as he should have been, or didn't get fed often.  Remember Jackie's Gabby, who would drink water anytime she saw it?  Because she was so used to not having it, that she over indulged when she did have it because she was used to not...if that makes any sense?

 

Emma was food aggressive, and would bite and draw blood, at 9 weeks. Age has NOTHING to do with a dog's temperament, and this dog has had 8 months to learn bad behavior.

 There should not be food or food bowls down where this dog- or ANY unfamiliar dog on the first day of intros- can even think about resource guarding them!

 

I honestly do not think any of this is insurmountable, but I think you rushed WAY fast on intros. When I do new fosters who are ANYTHING but super squishy types, they go on crate and rotate for a few days to a few weeks first and don't even get to LOOK at my guys for a few days. 

Beejou, I don't know how old you are or what your experience with dogs is, but this is the second time in a year that you've had dogs introduced to T-Bone that were not a fit in your home. You haven't had this dog very long -- only two days from the first time you posted. That's not enough time to determine anything about this dog, except that he's a male Dobe. You've just moved across the country and gotten married. I assume you're still adjusting. This would not be the ideal time to add a new animal to your situation, even in a foster situation, in my opinion.

You need to think of yourself and T-Bone first. How will the constant introduction of animals, especially animals that keep attacking him, make T-Bone feel about his environment? I say this coming from a place where I have had to reconsider my desire to foster because of some of Misha's issues (which are not related to aggression) and my current situation. It is not feasible for me to take on a long term foster. If you want to help out animals in need try to volunteer at a shelter or rescue, donate if you're able, go to events or pass out information. Please give *real* and *hard* consideration before taking any other animals. Can you keep T-Bone and foster safe? Can you keep all animals happy? Can you realistically handle ALL possible outcomes of introductions?

Our local shelter we have a need for temporary fosters, no more than 4 weeks, which I have signed up to do. Because in my situation I can crate and rotate and keep dogs separate at all times, and know that I could manage that for a few weeks, even if it added a little time to my routine. Before you got Trinket you said you weren't in a situation to add another dog, then you went ahead and got her. Now you're still settling and adding another new dog (even if temporarily). They need to be kept separate and rotated at least at the first. You seem to be quick to jump in feet first without testing the waters, then you splash because you realize you can't swim. Don't throw the towel in on this dog. See if a new foster can be found -- don't lie about your concerns, but don't label him either. Until then, keep both dogs safe and SEPARATE! Don't punish the dog because you got in over your head.

I trust your assessment of the food guarding. A dog that goes very still like you describe is giving you very clear warning signs. I would not ignore those signs no matter what anyone says. Always keep the food bowls put away even if they are empty.

I won't harp on you about trying to save the dog. Your heart was in the right place. We all make mistakes. Live and learn.

So, what have the dobe rescues or even all breed rescues said? Have you contacted them? If you have to call the shelter and say that your dog is not accepting the new dog and ask if they have another foster home or if they can put you in touch with a rescue group (does not have to be dobe rescue). The bottom line is, and as much as this will not be a popular opinion, you have to put your own dog first and need to get this new dog out of the house asap.

Jewlieee

I trust your assessment of the food guarding. A dog that goes very still like you describe is giving you very clear warning signs. I would not ignore those signs no matter what anyone says. Always keep the food bowls put away even if they are empty.

I won't harp on you about trying to save the dog. Your heart was in the right place. We all make mistakes. Live and learn.

So, what have the dobe rescues or even all breed rescues said? Have you contacted them? If you have to call the shelter and say that your dog is not accepting the new dog and ask if they have another foster home or if they can put you in touch with a rescue group (does not have to be dobe rescue). The bottom line is, and as much as this will not be a popular opinion, you have to put your own dog first and need to get this new dog out of the house asap.

 

 

Agreed! T-Bone, should be your first priority.

The food bowls are up and have been. He guards about a threeee by three foot radius was he here the food goes at feeding time. He really came right out of his shell which is great. Any sort of seperation or confinement leads to Dobe screaming. All that is adjustment and training and doesnt worry me. Ive been trading dobe when he grabs something he shouldnt... He grabbed a leash and gave me the same head low stiffness... So i put a piece of kibble down and take it. It worked with Tbone when he was a pup so hopefully it will start a foundatiin for demolition dog. He seems to have a lot of obsessive tendencies.. Chewing carpet furniture corners his bed ANYthing and it doesnt seem to be typical pup atuff because he is nervous and stress yawns when not occupied with a bone or toy. Problem is taking the item back is tricky... I know a lot of you probably think Im an idiot and the stress Ive put on all of us here just might prove it. This is not what we expected. Im trying here.

Hand feed him his kibble in an area where it is just you and him. One thought is to toss a few pieces in his crate let him go in and eat and come back out (don't close the door). Wait for him to sit, or look at you or anything other than a hard focus on the food in your hand then say good! Or yes! All happy and toss some more kibble in his crate. Rinse / repeat. Remove the bowl of food out of the picture completely.

Work on a drop it command every time you trade. Made it a game with tasty food not just kibble. Practice giving the item back to him after you trade. This builds trust. So he has a toy, you wave a piece of food on his face, when he spits out the toys say "yes! Drop it!" While you give the treat and take the toy. Then right away say "ok take it!" And give the toy back. Rinse repeat 3-5 times and eventually take the toy away for good and give him a jackpot. Put the toy on top of the fridge and give a treat after you put the toy away (he will prob be watching every move) and be all happy and say "all done!"

He's going to have a lot of nervousness right now, that is normal. If you can afford it you can get some dap plug ins or a collar. Or give him some calming aids. Just to get him through this initial stress of having his life turned upside down.